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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 323593 times)

Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3580 on: January 30, 2020, 10:54:00 am »


https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-lawyers-say-cant-be-investigated-shooting-someone-5th-ave-2019-10

"But it's not FAIR," they whined, incessantly.  After a pause, they stood, chanting, "Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi!"

Ah, so you are going back to Oct. before the Senate trial began.  OK.   They have a point considering the ruling of the DOJ. This rule stands for ALL Presidents, not just Trump.  You don't like it, get someone voted in and your guy in place in the DOJ and change the ruling.   However do you think the next President is going to want that rule in place?  My guess is he or she will. 

So what about your "preferred candidate".  Where do they stand on this?  Oh wait we would have to see if they actrually changed in once in power. Bloivating about it while stumping won't cut it.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-indictment-explainer/can-a-sitting-us-president-face-criminal-charges-idUSKCN1QF1D3
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3581 on: January 30, 2020, 10:55:07 am »

Frank, the point isn't what Trump's lawyers said. You don't have to believe them.  However, the main point is that the wavering Republicans have raised the main question about what Trump did.  They are reflecting what I;ve said for weeks.  That an act is legal as long as one of the reasons it was done was for public interest.  The fact it had a tangential personal value to the president does not make the act illegal or impeachable.  So the republican argument in the end will be Trump's act was legal for that reason regardless of any personal benefit he may have received.  That will be the justification for the Senate finding him not guilty.
Not really. It will be an up or down vote not tied to any theory of guilt or innocence. The real justification is they don’t want to cross Trump’s base and jeopardize their own re-election.
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Craig Lamson

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3582 on: January 30, 2020, 11:12:55 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXZIZ2-Yn20

Such a relevant analysis... For the busy ones or those allergic to CNN, it's a factual description of the total change of behavior of Fox News against Bolton... who worked as a consultant for Fox News for 11 years. He has now become a big vilain.

Pathetic.


After watching this piece it became quite clear that Bernard has not spent any time watching Fox.  I really liked when Ali quotes a Bongino text that says "no one cares" and Ali suggests wejust let Bolton talk.  Well Hannity offered an open ended invitation to Bolton to come on his show and say whatever he wanted.  Crickets from Bolton.  Linsey Graham suggested Bolton have a press conference and just say what he wanted to say.  Again Crickets.  Bolton could give his manuscript ( at least this section) to Congress if he choses.  Again Crickets.  So that leaves some unanswerd questions about Bolton. Maybe its better for his future book sales to lets this leak go unanswered. After all once he talks why buy the book?   
Watching these people without the least bit of ethics makes me sick.

Cheers,
Bernard


After watching this piece it became quite clear that Bernard has not spent any time watching Fox.  I really liked when Ali quotes a Bongino text that says "no one cares" and Ali suggests wejust let Bolton talk.  Well Hannity offered an open ended invitation to Bolton to come on his show and say whatever he wanted.  Crickets from Bolton.  Linsey Graham suggested Bolton have a press conference and just say what he wanted to say.  Again Crickets.  Bolton could give his manuscript ( at least this section) to Congress if he choses.  Again Crickets.  So that leaves some unanswerd questions about Bolton. Maybe its better for his future book sales to lets this leak go unanswered. After all once he talks why buy the book?   

And lets talk about the "ethics" of this CNN personality Don Lemon and Ali.   It was just this week thay got caught disparaging Trump voters.  Yea, what great ethics.
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RSL

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trumpmor
« Reply #3583 on: January 30, 2020, 11:23:58 am »

Just saw this and don't understand. Where are you getting your info if not from "media and TV"?

Taxi drivers and barbers?  :)

Hi Robert, Among others, the Wall Street Journal. You might want to try it. You'd be able to see some real news and some serious discussions about actual, rather than bogus, current events. Considering what I suspect you're viewing on TV, it would be a real revelation.
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Rob C

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3584 on: January 30, 2020, 11:29:55 am »

Rob, there is 1.  a Jewish radio host in the USA, Dennis Prager, that has a great saying on the situation, "if all the Jews in Israel put down their guns today, there would be no Jews tomorrow in Israel.  If all the Palestinians put down their guns today, there would be a free state of Palestine tomorrow."  It's that simple.

I use to be on your side, but after doing some more research, 2.  the idea that the Palestinians are getting a raw deal is crazy.  The fact is there has never been a peace deal Israel has not wanted to except, and there has never been a peace deal the Palestinians would except, no matter how lop sided that deal may be in favor of the Palestinians. 

The Palestinians' wish to kill all Jewish people in the Middle East and destroy the state of Israel is a great motivation then their wish to have a free state. 

Well, as Alan said earlier, the train is pulling out, and it really is. 3. This peace deal, for the first time, has united nearly the entirety of the Arab Middle East (with the exception of Iran) to not only recognize Israel's right to exist, but to also support them.  Egypt and Saudi Arabia, who previously went to war with Israel, have both agreed to recognize this peace deal.  Now you could argue that this is a strategic alliance against Iran, but the fact is they excepted it. 

With the exception of Iran, the Middle East is moving on in regards to the Palestinians.  It would do them best to see the writing on the wall, but it seems that they still never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

1.  Yes, simple, if you think the deal, any deal so far, has been fair, and that the Palestinian state on offer would be worth more than squat.

2. Israel is happy to accept any deal that gives it the advantage, as is the norm. I have never seen a deal that was "lopsidedly in favour of the Palestinians" and if you look at the map of the new, greatest deal (because it's his deal, Trump's deal), you will see the Palestinian lands near Jordan are isolated into tiny clustered isles in an Israeli sea. Some chance of a united homeland! But hey, it's the best deal, the greatest deal anyone has ever seen: divide and conquer.

As I wrote earlier, I wonder how the Floridians would react to such a deal. And how impartial they'd consider the architect.

3. Which is fine and dandy for Israel; not so for Palestinians. As with many communities where people live, even down to where I live, internal politics and groupings screw the concept of fair play. People form power bocks and voting blocks for all sorts of reasons, few having anything to do with the concept of fair play just as with the "rest" of the Middle East, which has all sorts of motives and alliances.

Were it not for oil and fear of Islamic expansion northwards and westwards, I don't think anyone would give a damn what they do to each other, but as it stands, we have to consider those things because like in NK, time she is a changin' and if Israel really has a nuke, it won't be long before Iran does - if it has not already got there in secret or been sold one from somewhere. Who knows? Using one is, fortunately, only for the suicidal: they are all too close together to survive intact.

Rob

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3585 on: January 30, 2020, 11:51:53 am »

Not really. It will be an up or down vote not tied to any theory of guilt or innocence. The real justification is they don’t want to cross Trump’s base and jeopardize their own re-election.
that's a fair analysis as well. But of course it goes both ways. The Democrats are voting based on political considerations as well. The whole thing has nothing to do with the Constitution.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3586 on: January 30, 2020, 11:55:09 am »


After watching this piece it became quite clear that Bernard has not spent any time watching Fox.  I really liked when Ali quotes a Bongino text that says "no one cares" and Ali suggests wejust let Bolton talk.  Well Hannity offered an open ended invitation to Bolton to come on his show and say whatever he wanted.  Crickets from Bolton.  Linsey Graham suggested Bolton have a press conference and just say what he wanted to say.  Again Crickets.  Bolton could give his manuscript ( at least this section) to Congress if he choses.  Again Crickets.  So that leaves some unanswerd questions about Bolton. Maybe its better for his future book sales to lets this leak go unanswered. After all once he talks why buy the book?   

And lets talk about the "ethics" of this CNN personality Don Lemon and Ali.   It was just this week thay got caught disparaging Trump voters.  Yea, what great ethics.

I was wrong in my thinking about Bolton. Turns out to be just another disloyal political sleaze ball who's only interested in selling books and making money by stabbing people in the back.

PeterAit

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3587 on: January 30, 2020, 12:02:39 pm »

For those of us interested in accurate and thoughtful news sources (sorry, Trumplets), this is a great source I just discovered: Radio Free Europe. A very impressive organization of many reporters, stringers, etc. going out and actually collecting the news. I am fairly new to it, but on first look I am very impressed.

https://www.rferl.org

And, FWIW, this is the link to the story I mentioned earlier that shows Trump/Giuliani's story about the Ukrainian prosecutor is a bunch of hog spittle.

https://www.rferl.org/a/why-was-ukraine-top-prosecutor-fired-viktor-shokin/30181445.html
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3588 on: January 30, 2020, 12:04:29 pm »

1.  Yes, simple, if you think the deal, any deal so far, has been fair, and that the Palestinian state on offer would be worth more than squat.

2. Israel is happy to accept any deal that gives it the advantage, as is the norm. I have never seen a deal that was "lopsidedly in favour of the Palestinians" and if you look at the map of the new, greatest deal (because it's his deal, Trump's deal), you will see the Palestinian lands near Jordan are isolated into tiny clustered isles in an Israeli sea. Some chance of a united homeland! But hey, it's the best deal, the greatest deal anyone has ever seen: divide and conquer.

As I wrote earlier, I wonder how the Floridians would react to such a deal. And how impartial they'd consider the architect.

3. Which is fine and dandy for Israel; not so for Palestinians. As with many communities where people live, even down to where I live, internal politics and groupings screw the concept of fair play. People form power bocks and voting blocks for all sorts of reasons, few having anything to do with the concept of fair play just as with the "rest" of the Middle East, which has all sorts of motives and alliances.

Were it not for oil and fear of Islamic expansion northwards and westwards, I don't think anyone would give a damn what they do to each other, but as it stands, we have to consider those things because like in NK, time she is a changin' and if Israel really has a nuke, it won't be long before Iran does - if it has not already got there in secret or been sold one from somewhere. Who knows? Using one is, fortunately, only for the suicidal: they are all too close together to survive intact.

Rob

Like as been stated earlier, the Palestinians have had 60 years to come to the table to negotiate an agreement, but they have not.  They instead choose to shoot rockets and send in suicide bombers into Israel, and break every ceasefire agreed upon.

The world's patience has ran out. 
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faberryman

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3589 on: January 30, 2020, 12:20:08 pm »

I was wrong in my thinking about Bolton. Turns out to be just another disloyal political sleaze ball who's only interested in selling books and making money by stabbing people in the back.
Funny, that's exactly what Giuliani said. Oh wait...
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3590 on: January 30, 2020, 12:22:22 pm »

Funny, that's exactly what Giuliani said. Oh wait...
Really? Hadn't heard Giuliani yet.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3591 on: January 30, 2020, 12:23:55 pm »

CNN wil probably offer him a job.  Maybe MSNBC.

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3592 on: January 30, 2020, 12:29:21 pm »

I was wrong in my thinking about Bolton. Turns out to be just another disloyal political sleaze ball who's only interested in selling books and making money by stabbing people in the back.

Bolton wouldn't be a type of person I'd invite to my dinner party, but I doubt that his motivation in becoming National Security Advisor was to write books.
According to CNN, he was fired, because he wanted to cancel Trump's worldwide reality show and he didn't share Trump's infatuations with North Korea's Kim and Putin.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/politics/donald-trump-john-bolton-national-security/index.html
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3593 on: January 30, 2020, 12:40:45 pm »

Like as been stated earlier, the Palestinians have had 60 years to come to the table to negotiate an agreement, but they have not.  They instead choose to shoot rockets and send in suicide bombers into Israel, and break every ceasefire agreed upon.

The world's patience has ran out.

Your sense of history is flawed.
+
Start counting the casualties on both sides and come again.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3594 on: January 30, 2020, 12:42:56 pm »

Your sense of history is flawed.
+
Start counting the casualties on both sides and come again.

Well, go on.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 12:47:02 pm by JoeKitchen »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3595 on: January 30, 2020, 01:00:00 pm »

Not just Trump - his lawyers actually made the argument that not only could he not be prosecuted for such a shooting, but that he could not even be *investigated*.

So yes, Trump and his lawyers are *literally* arguing, twice now, that the President is above the law and without restraint....

Oh, come on, James! You know better than that.  That being a giant straw man. Put what was said, and what I said a month ago, in proper context. The context being “personal gain” accusation, against which was the public interest mentioned. Even then, the clear underlying assumption is no crime associated with it, and certainly not one that doesn’t rise to the level of high crimes, etc.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3596 on: January 30, 2020, 01:31:35 pm »

Bolton wouldn't be a type of person I'd invite to my dinner party, but I doubt that his motivation in becoming National Security Advisor was to write books.
According to CNN, he was fired, because he wanted to cancel Trump's worldwide reality show and he didn't share Trump's infatuations with North Korea's Kim and Putin.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/11/politics/donald-trump-john-bolton-national-security/index.html

He's dropping little tidbits in order to sell a book and make money. That's Sleazy and it's hurtful to the president and to the country. If he has something important to say that reflects on the situation he should just say it. Right now it's just causing more turmoil in the whole country and hurting it. He's doing with his book publisher is telling him to do

James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3597 on: January 30, 2020, 01:38:28 pm »

Oh, come on, James! You know better than that.  That being a giant straw man. Put what was said, and what I said a month ago, in proper context. The context being “personal gain” accusation, against which was the public interest mentioned. Even then, the clear underlying assumption is no crime associated with it, and certainly not one that doesn’t rise to the level of high crimes, etc.

Dersh is now clarifying via Twitter.  I’m on my mobile so more in a bit..
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kers

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3598 on: January 30, 2020, 01:43:24 pm »

Well, go on.
The most serious negotiations going towards a real peace were with the Olso accords.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Alas, Rabin was assassinated, a very effective assassination that also killed the peace process from the Israelian side.
Since then the building of more and more Israelian settlements in Palestine territory violated the accords.
Simon Peres started that and Nethanyahu who never wanted a peace process continued on an even larger scale.

about casualties
Here some info about the last 10 years...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/313220/fatalities-between-israel-and-palestina-after-operation-cast-lead/ 
about 3000 Palestinians and about 50 Israelians got killed.

Apartheid is a good term of how the Palestianans have to live under Israelian pressure.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 01:48:48 pm by kers »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #3599 on: January 30, 2020, 02:07:47 pm »

The most serious negotiations going towards a real peace were with the Olso accords.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords

Alas, Rabin was assassinated, a very effective assassination that also killed the peace process from the Israelian side.
Since then the building of more and more Israelian settlements in Palestine territory violated the accords.
Simon Peres started that and Nethanyahu who never wanted a peace process continued on an even larger scale.

about casualties
Here some info about the last 10 years...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/313220/fatalities-between-israel-and-palestina-after-operation-cast-lead/ 
about 3000 Palestinians and about 50 Israelians got killed.

Apartheid is a good term of how the Palestianans have to live under Israelian pressure.

Yes, I did read more on the Olso Accords after your post, and it is shame that Rabin was assassinated.  However, the accords did not completely fall apart at this time, and it seems like there were issues prior to the his death.  It appears that it was a very delicate process with faults on the both sides. 

Additionally, your comment about Netanyahu is a moot point now (regardless if it is true or not), since his liberal rival Benny Gantz also supports the peace deal.

Apartheid is not any where near an accurate description of the situation there.  Just because more Palestinians have been killed does not mean they are not he aggressor.  If you do a quite social media search, you will find that many on the Palestine have the belief they can go back to the historic boundaries, controlling the entirety of Israel and Palestine.  It's just not going to happen, just like we (the USA) is not going to given our entire country back to Native Americans.  This is especially true with now Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Qatar all supporting it. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 02:13:46 pm by JoeKitchen »
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