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Author Topic: Impeaching Donald Trump  (Read 348303 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1260 on: November 07, 2019, 02:35:14 pm »

Where's Biden?

Click on the supplied link. It's easy - just position the cursor over the link I showed, and click the left button on the mouse.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1261 on: November 07, 2019, 02:38:51 pm »

I don't think Americans are yet ready for a first lady who's the president's husband.

After Trump, Americans are ready for anything. More importantly, how does Vladimir Putin view the candidates?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1262 on: November 07, 2019, 03:01:58 pm »

After Trump, Americans are ready for anything. More importantly, how does Vladimir Putin view the candidates?
something else to thank Trump for. 😃

Peter McLennan

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1263 on: November 07, 2019, 04:50:48 pm »

A bit adolescent but not unexpected.

Thank you for demonstrating substantial moderation.  My response would have been “appalling”.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1264 on: November 07, 2019, 05:49:30 pm »

But no one who directly communicated with Trump about the event(s) in question.  It's pretty weak testimony. 

I'll will say that Trump is handling his defense pretty horribly, but that does not mean the Dems have the goods.

Considering that all the facts point to the obvious truth that he is guilty as hell, I would say that Trump is handling his defense remarkably well since you are others are seemingly convinced that he is innocent...

Or is it that you would support him whatever the facts simply because you consider this as a political fight while in reality it is one between Trump and the constitution?

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1265 on: November 07, 2019, 05:54:57 pm »

Considering that all the facts point to the obvious truth that he is guilty as hell, I would say that Trump is handling his defense remarkably well since you are others are seemingly convinced that he is innocent...

Or is it that you would support him whatever the facts simply because you consider this as a political fight while in reality it is one between Trump and the constitution?

Cheers,
Bernard


Why would anyone think this is a political fight?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1266 on: November 07, 2019, 05:59:40 pm »

... never talking directly with Trump in the same exact testimony?  ???

This is hearsay... 

Well... there is one guy who did talk to Trump directly. And so far he is sticking to his original story: he didn't feel pressured nor quid pro quo - the president of Ukraine.

Chris Kern

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1267 on: November 07, 2019, 07:39:20 pm »

Well... there is one guy who did talk to Trump directly. And so far he is sticking to his original story: he didn't feel pressured nor quid pro quo - the president of Ukraine.

That's true: publicly, during a September 25 joint television appearance with Trump in New York, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky denied he felt pressure, and he has not retracted what he said.

However—and I understand this probably won't be credible to those who consider traditional journalism to be "fake news"—Andrew Kramer of the New York Times, reporting from Kyiv, has what appears to me to be a well-sourced account documenting the pressure Zelensky felt and the debate among his aides about how to respond to it.

Quote
Only Mr. Trump could unlock the aid, he had been told by two United States senators, and time was running out. If the money, nearly $400 million, were not unblocked by the end of the fiscal year on Sept. 30, it could be lost in its entirety.

In a flurry of WhatsApp messages and meetings in Ukraine’s capital, Kiev, over several days, senior aides debated the point. Avoiding partisan politics in the United States had always been the first rule of Ukrainian foreign policy, but the military aid was vital to the war against Russian-backed separatist forces in eastern Ukraine, a conflict that has cost 13,000 lives since it began in 2014.

By then, however, Mr. Zelensky’s staffers were already conceding to what seemed to be the inevitable, and making plans for a public announcement about the investigations. It was a fateful decision for a fledgling president elected on an anticorruption platform that included putting an end to politically motivated investigations. . . .

A tug-of-war ensued between a senior aide to Mr. Zelensky, Andriy Yermak, and another of Mr. Trump’s envoys to Ukraine, Kurt Volker, over the wording of the proposed public statement. Mr. Volker went so far as to draft a statement for Mr. Zelensky that mentioned both investigations. . . .

Finally bending to the White House request, Mr. Zelensky’s staff planned for him to make an announcement in an interview on Sept. 13 with Fareed Zakaria, the host of a weekly news show on CNN.

Though plans were in motion to give the White House the public statement it had sought, events in Washington saved the Ukrainian government from any final decision and eliminated the need to make the statement.

Word of the freeze in military aid had leaked out, and Congress was in an uproar. Two days before the scheduled interview, the Trump administration released the assistance and Mr. Zelensky’s office quickly canceled the interview.

I suspect many of the details will be corroborated by other sources, including, perhaps, the two senators involved, now that other reporters undoubtedly are chasing this story.

I encourage those of you with subscriptions to the Times, or who haven't used up your monthly free access to the newspaper, to read Kramer's piece in its entirety.  It's the best piece of enterprise reporting I've read about the attempt to get Ukraine to conduct the investigations Trump and Giuliani were demanding.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1268 on: November 07, 2019, 07:57:31 pm »

That's true: publicly, during a September 25 joint television appearance with Trump in New York, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky denied he felt pressure, and he has not retracted what he said.

However—and I understand this probably won't be credible to those who consider traditional journalism to be "fake news"—Andrew Kramer of the New York Times, reporting from Kyiv, has what appears to me to be a well-sourced account documenting the pressure Zelensky felt and the debate among his aides about how to respond to it.

I suspect many of the details will be corroborated by other sources, including, perhaps, the two senators involved, now that other reporters undoubtedly are chasing this story.[...]

And, there are other sources. The U.S. Ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, had originally testified that there was no quid pro quo in Trump's dealings with Ukraine. Upon hearing that his State Department colleagues had testified otherwise, Sondland's recollection suddenly changed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LTwzClZ_zE (might as well approach it from the humoristic angle, given how sad the truth has become).

And a somewhat more thourough analysis of what to make of Sondland's changed recollection:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDxoaLcpVl0
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 08:20:10 pm by Bart_van_der_Wolf »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1269 on: November 07, 2019, 08:07:07 pm »

 
That's true: publicly, during a September 25 joint television appearance with Trump in New York, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky denied he felt pressure, and he has not retracted what he said.

However—and I understand this probably won't be credible to those who consider traditional journalism to be "fake news"—Andrew Kramer of the New York Times, reporting from Kyiv, has what appears to me to be a well-sourced account documenting the pressure Zelensky felt and the debate among his aides about how to respond to it.

I suspect many of the details will be corroborated by other sources, including, perhaps, the two senators involved, now that other reporters undoubtedly are chasing this story.

I encourage those of you with subscriptions to the Times, or who haven't used up your monthly free access to the newspaper, to read Kramer's piece in its entirety.  It's the best piece of enterprise reporting I've read about the attempt to get Ukraine to conduct the investigations Trump and Giuliani were demanding.

Chris, How do you know it's well-sourced?  I read the article.  Maybe too quickly.  But there were no witnesses mentioned to any of the "facts" the article writer claimed happened. 

We do know that there was Trump pressure to have Ukraine do an investigations of Biden, his son, and other corruption as well.  There was also a belief that some of the claimed Russian involvement in our 2016 presidential election came from Ukraine and not Russia.  That was something Trump, who had been under attack for over two years as being part of that claimed collusion, would have wanted to get to the bottom of, something perfectly legal and expected considered the claims against him.  So this article does little more than confirm that Trump wanted to clean up corruption in the Ukraine, something that was American policy even under Obama's administration. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1270 on: November 07, 2019, 08:13:50 pm »

So multi-billionaire, three term ex-Mayor of NYC. Michael Bloomberg,  throws his hat in the Democrat ring for nomination to president of the US.  It's getting more interesting.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-bloomberg-idUSKBN1XH2X0

BernardLanguillier

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1271 on: November 07, 2019, 10:06:29 pm »

Why would anyone think this is a political fight?

I don’t, you and Slobodan act as if it were one.

Cheers,
Bernard

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1272 on: November 07, 2019, 10:09:46 pm »

I don’t, you and Slobodan act as if it were one.

Cheers,
Bernard

The Democrats don't care about truth.  They only care about power.  Theirs. 

LesPalenik

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1273 on: November 07, 2019, 10:35:31 pm »

The Democrats don't care about truth.  They only care about power.  Theirs.

Well, then Michael Bloomberg joining the race may be a good thing.
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James Clark

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1274 on: November 07, 2019, 10:56:17 pm »

The Democrats don't care about truth.  They only care about power.  Theirs.

As opposed to Republicans, who... what?  If you're about to argue that Republicans are somehow on the side of Truth in the Trump era, I'm not really sure I can ever take anything you say seriously ever again.
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1275 on: November 07, 2019, 11:15:49 pm »

I don’t, you and Slobodan act as if it were one.

Cheers,
Bernard

LOL, you obviously have no real knowledge of American politics then. 
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1276 on: November 07, 2019, 11:17:20 pm »

Well, then Michael Bloomberg joining the race may be a good thing.

Possibly, maybe he can actually win. 

Lets see, when Bill Gates, a lifelong Dem, comes out and basically says he would not vote for Warren, I think the Dems are pretty much open to anything right now. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1277 on: November 07, 2019, 11:22:06 pm »

Well, then Michael Bloomberg joining the race may be a good thing.
Well, Bloomberg's like Trump, ruthless, but with a smooth exterior.  After two terms of being mayor, the most allowed by law, he got the city counsel to change the law so he could run a third time - and won.  He was resented a lot for that though by a lot of New Yorkers.  He may be a bigger narcissist and egomaniac than Trump.  But isn't a loud mouth like him.  Also, his wealth makes Trump look like a pauper.  When he began his mayoralty, he was only worth $5 billion.  Twelve years later he was worth $45 billion.  Not bad for being mayor.  Like Trump, he let others handled his day-to-day business operations, claiming he never looked in.  Sure.     But he was kind like Trump and forfeited his mayor's salary or gave it to charity.  What a guy. 


I thought he was a very effective mayor.  My wife hated him but then almost all NYC teachers hated him because he wouldn't raise their salaries like they wanted and wouldn't make a new teacher's contract.  He also favored chartered schools which is anathema to the teachers union.   Of course, the teachers got their raises eventually, backdated, from the mayor who took over from him, De Blasio, who really knows how to kiss asses to get votes.  Of course, De Blasio didn;t make out too well in the Democrat presidential nomination process and recently dropped out.  We'll see how Bloomberg does.  Has has more class.  He'll probably take more votes away from Biden.  I suspect Trump will give him a neat, new nickname to introduce the world to him.   


I met Bloomberg two or three times, my wife and I were invited to his second inaugural.  I still don;t know why we were invited.  They must have confused us with real sycophants.  He also gave me some sort of an award or certificate, I forget for what.  I have some pictures some where.  I'll have to dig them out.  He's a short guy unlike the bigger Trump.  Here's a nickname Trump might pick.  Three-term Bloomie.  That will remind everyone of his autocratic demeanor.

Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1278 on: November 07, 2019, 11:24:05 pm »

As opposed to Republicans, who... what?  If you're about to argue that Republicans are somehow on the side of Truth in the Trump era, I'm not really sure I can ever take anything you say seriously ever again.
They're all only concerned with power.  After all, that's why politicians become politicians.  Anyway, you should (not-edit) take anything I say too seriously.  Life is too short.  :)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 11:29:31 pm by Alan Klein »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Impeaching Donald Trump
« Reply #1279 on: November 07, 2019, 11:27:04 pm »

Possibly, maybe he can actually win. 

Lets see, when Bill Gates, a lifelong Dem, comes out and basically says he would not vote for Warren, I think the Dems are pretty much open to anything right now. 
  I heard him say on TV that he'd be willing to pay $20 billion in taxes.  But since she wants all of his $100 billion, well, she just can't have it. He's putting his foot down.  I mean, after all, there's a limit.  How would he be able to afford any more Perry Como sweaters? 
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