Trump II

[Schewe]

...yet... it is Trump's fault that Muslims are attacking London?

No, but it's Trump's fault he got into a Twitter rant against the London mayor for zero net benefit other than make people more pissed and embarrassed by him. So tell me what has Trump done that was useful since the attack other than getting in some golf this weekend and tweeting? Anything?

[Schewe]

Have you? You think this thread and your constant attacks on the President of the United States help bring people together?

Yeah well, I wasn't elected the leader of the free world ya know? So it's a bit above my pay grade...it's his friggin' job and he doesnt have a clue how to do that does he?

[Farmer]

Is that the same mayor who said in the past that Londoners better get used to terrorism, as, you know, London is a metropolis, and it goes with the territory?

And now you're taking him out of context.  Find the original, full, quote.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

And now you're taking him out of context.  Find the original, full, quote.

I probably did (take him out of context). But just trying to blend in with the crowd here, on this thread. I thought that taking Trump out of context and too literally is de rigueur here, no? 

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I probably did (take him out of context)....

Thank again, it looks like I didn't:

Sadiq Khan: London mayor says being prepared for terror attacks 'part and parcel' of living in a major city

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html

You see, I actually agree with the mayor. It has become a fact of life. However, coming from a Muslim mayor, it MIGHT have a different meaning, like: "Hey, my bros are coming to get you, get used to it." And I am pretty sure he didn't mean it that way, however, it is all about optics these days.

Just like the leftist, aging-hippies, "march-through-institutions" US judges said that the Trump's Travel ban would be confirmed by them had it been drafted, verbatim, by anyone else but Trump.

[Manoli]

I didn't get the impression that she was talking about cyberspace only.

I didn't say 'only'
Latest reports indicate that the 3 perps communicated and plotted this latest attack via YouTube.
Here are excerpts from her speech of today:

As terrorism breeds terrorism and perpetrators are inspired to attack, not only on the basis of carefully constructed plots after years of planning and training, and not even as lone attackers radicalised online, but by copying one another and often using the crudest of means of attack.  [...]

First, while the recent attacks are not connected by common networks, they are connected in one important sense. They are bound together by the single evil ideology of Islamist extremism that preaches hatred, sows division and promotes sectarianism.

It is an ideology that claims our Western values of freedom, democracy and human rights are incompatible with the religion of Islam. It is an ideology that is a perversion of Islam and a perversion of the truth.  [...]

Second, we cannot allow this ideology the safe space it needs to breed. Yet that is precisely what the internet, and the big companies that provide internet-based services provide. We need to work with allied democratic governments to reach international agreements that regulate cyberspace to prevent the spread of extremist and terrorism planning.  And we need to do everything we can at home to reduce the risks of extremism online.  [...]

Third, while we need to deprive the extremists of their safe spaces online, we must not forget about the safe spaces that continue to exist in the real world. Yes, that means taking military action to destroy Isis in Iraq and Syria. But it also means taking action here at home.

Fourth, we have a robust counter-terrorism strategy, that has proved successful over many years.But as the nature of the threat we face becomes more complex, more fragmented, more hidden, especially online, the strategy needs to keep up.

Edit;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-terror-attack-theresa-mays-statement-full-london-bridge-borough-market-a7771891.html

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

I didn't say 'only'

And yet, you selected only one of the four factors she mentioned. Grasping at straws?

The latest lame excuse: "YouTube made me do it, your Honour"

I was, however, referring to her points 1 and 3, especially the part "here at home."

[LesPalenik]

I didn't say 'only'
Latest reports indicate that the 3 perps communicated and plotted this latest attack via YouTube.

we have a robust counter-terrorism strategy, that has proved successful over many years.But as the nature of the threat we face becomes more complex, more fragmented, more hidden, especially online, the strategy needs to keep up.

True! This will be a protracted war which has to be waged on all fronts. And the strategy needs to keep up.

To police the Internet communications is only one area in this fight, and also it is only one of the channels for the bad guys to communicate.
The most serious adversaries, like Osama bin Ladin, went out of their way to bypass telephones and Internet. 

[Manoli]

The latest lame excuse: "YouTube made me do it, your Honour"

And that's meant to be what ... funny, humorous, witty ?

[Manoli]

I was, however, referring to her points 1 and 3, especially the part "here at home."

Well, if you're referring to the 'here at home' part - first reports indicate that, alledgedly, one of the perps was of Pakistani origin, British born, married father, radicalised within the last year and already known to the security services , having been reported on several occasions by members of his own community for trying to radicalise children.

Of the 12 people arrested so far, one is released without charge, 7 are women aged between 19 and 60, 5 are male aged between 23 and 55. ( ages from memory - all given without guarantee ..)

A different threat to the one you're so keen on depicting.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... A different threat to the one you're so keen on depicting.

Exactly what is different? They are all Muslim.

Another question... the guy was reported twice ("see something, say something" apparently worked). The question is, why didn't authorities do something about it? Political correctness? Overwhelmed by the sheer number of "married fathers"?

[Farmer]

Thank again, it looks like I didn't:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html

You see, I actually agree with the mayor. It has become a fact of life. However, coming from a Muslim mayor, it MIGHT have a different meaning, like: "Hey, my bros are coming to get you, get used to it." And I am pretty sure he didn't mean it that way, however, it is all about optics these days.

Read your own link. There was a lot more said, a lot more context than your original comment.

[Schewe]

I thought that taking Trump out of context and too literally is de rigueur here, no? 

Pretty sure people here are not taking Trump out of context, all we need to is quote him which of course YOU don't like because then we're talking him literally. Well, words really do matter ya know?

And speaking of Trump "speaking", there's this...

WHAT DONALD TRUMP CAN DO TO HELP STOP TERRORISM: TALK LESS

In the hours after the London terrorist attack, President Trump took to his favored platform, Twitter, to deliver a stream-of-consciousness response. He repeated his call for a “travel ban” on visitors from six predominantly Muslim countries. And he warned against political correctness. “If we don’t get smart it will only get worse,” he said. “Do you notice we are not having a gun debate right now?” he added, in a puzzling non sequitur. “That’s because they used knives and a truck.”

For critics of Trump, his tweets betray a buffoonish approach to national security that will only make terrorism worse. His proposed travel restrictions will only aid recruitment for the Islamic State, they say. His demand, during a speech in Saudi Arabia, two weeks ago, for Muslim heads of state to do more ignores the reality that, since the September 11th attacks, vastly more Iraqi and Afghan soldiers and police than American service members have died battling extremists. And Trump’s loosening of Pentagon rules surrounding the use of air strikes and commando raids against the Islamic State, Al Qaeda, and other terrorist groups will only lead to more civilian deaths, fuelling resentment and reprisals.

Yet several counterterrorism experts, including some who worked under President Obama, admitted to me, in private conversations recently, that new approaches to combat extremism are badly needed, and that Trump has a chance to take steps that could prove effective. The problem is that, just as in other policy areas, Trump threatens to undermine his own counterterrorism strategy with his bellicose mode of communication. “His rhetoric belies a fundamental lack of understanding of the greater nuances of the issue, and in particular the root causes that have allowed isis to prey on the vulnerable and disaffected in our communities,” a former senior counterterrorism official told me on Sunday. “His immediate call for a ban on Muslims in the wake of the most recent attack and throughout his short time as President is arguably more likely to alienate Muslim Americans, and thus potentially inspire further acts of homegrown terrorism, than it is to prevent terrorists from entering the country and perpetrating terrorist acts.”

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...new approaches to combat extremism are badly needed...

Oh, please, do tell! What exactly are they?

Apparently, the previous president had a great talent to understand those "greater nuances" and "root causes" ... so much so, that it allowed ISIS to...flourish.

[Alan Klein]

...Despicable, Trumps reaction as well. First he promoted his controversial travel ban as an extra level of security for Americans, where it has the opposite effect, because it only feeds those who are radicalizing and plays into the cards of those recruiting for violent Jihad ...

So why then are they attacking  London's citizens?  Is the Muslim mayor of London doing anything to radicalize the Muslims there to attack their own fellow citizens.  Since the mayor is Muslim, who in London are radicalizing and playing into the cards of those recruiting for violent Jihad?  Maybe it was Trump's American travel ban that got these people upset and violent.  "Let's run over some of our fellow Londoners for what Trump said in America.  We'll show Trump!" 

Maybe, just maybe, these attacks have nothing to do what anyone says but how they want to establish universal Islam a world caliphate.  After all, they've been attacking and blowing up and killing people long before Trump became President.  Maybe you should wake up to the fact we're at war.

[Manoli]

Another question... the guy was reported twice ("see something, say something" apparently worked). The question is, why didn't authorities do something about it? Political correctness? Overwhelmed by the sheer number of "married fathers"?

Your witticisms have me rolling on the floor, Slobodan. So humorous.

The short answer is 'man-power'  but that's an argument brewing and will be thrashed out before (and after)  the General Election on Thursday.  ITM, this thread is about Trump ...

[Manoli]

Exactly what is different? They are all Muslim.

Bingo, straight out -  The mantra of an alt-right, racist, ultra nationalist xenophobe. Is that your belief ?

[Manoli]

Exactly what is different? They are all Muslim.

Muhammad Ali's stinging response to Trump,  at the tail end of 2015, under the title of 'Presidential Candidates Proposing to Ban Muslim Immigration to the United States’.

I am a Muslim and there is nothing Islamic about killing innocent people in Paris, San Bernardino, or anywhere else in the world. True Muslims know that the ruthless violence of so called Islamic jihadists goes against the very tenets of our religion.

We as Muslims have to stand up to those who use Islam to advance their own personal agenda. They have alienated many from learning about Islam. True Muslims know or should know that it goes against our religion to try and force Islam on anybody.

Speaking as someone who has never been accused of political correctness, I believe that our political leaders should use their position to bring understanding about the religion of Islam and clarify that these misguided murderers have perverted people's views on what Islam really is.

[mecrox]

So why then are they attacking  London's citizens?  Is the Muslim mayor of London doing anything to radicalize the Muslims there to attack their own fellow citizens.  Since the mayor is Muslim, who in London are radicalizing and playing into the cards of those recruiting for violent Jihad?  Maybe it was Trump's American travel ban that got these people upset and violent.  "Let's run over some of our fellow Londoners for what Trump said in America.  We'll show Trump!" 

Maybe, just maybe, these attacks have nothing to do what anyone says but how they want to establish universal Islam a world caliphate.  After all, they've been attacking and blowing up and killing people long before Trump became President.  Maybe you should wake up to the fact we're at war.

Not sure if you are suggesting that being a Muslim is itself an act of treason? But anyway if "we're at war", please explain why your president is boasting about the quantities of weaponry he's just sold to Saudi Arabia, the home of Wahhabism, the strain of Islam behind its current extreme manifestations? Surely if "we're at war" as you say this is akin to Nikon announcing sales of fleets of fighter jets to Brezhnev in around 1970.

[LesPalenik]

Not sure if you are suggesting that being a Muslim is itself an act of treason? But anyway if "we're at war", please explain why your president is boasting about the quantities of weaponry he's just sold to Saudi Arabia, the home of Wahhabism, the strain of Islam behind its current extreme manifestations? Surely if "we're at war" as you say this is akin to Nikon announcing sales of fleets of fighter jets to Brezhnev in around 1970.

I know we are here on a photography forum, but Nikon and Brezhnev somehow don't mesh together.