Trump II

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

We're paying more than what we're getting out of it.

How's that? Do you want to cut the wages of your military personnel in Europe or are you suggesting we pay for them without control over their activities? Is the fee for stationing your nuclear arms in Europe too high? Do your advanced intelligence positions have to pay extra high rent for housing?

We need the Europeans to contribute more to their defense, something they could certainly afford and which they agreed too.

Yes, and it was agreed (in 2014) to be achieved by 2024. Admitted, a lot needs to be done, but we first had to deal with a financial crisis (where the USA played a prominent role in triggering/creating the banks failing due to the type of 'Goldman Sachs' mortgage-backed deals dumped on them).

And, as said, it takes time for military investments to develop. For example, my country has been waiting for a long time for the first F-35 Lightning planes (AKA Joint Strike Fighter) to become available as replacement of our aging F16s. Last year (June 7th, 2016) the first two F-35s made a number of test flights over our country before returning to the USA. The government plans to eventually buy 37 (the exact number is depending on uncertain costs) of these jets to replace the F-16s. They will be permanently stationed in the Netherlands starting in 2019.

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

You just made up details of the agreement that don't exist.

http://www.nato.int/cps/ic/natohq/official_texts_112964.htm

Nothing about "regular", just that in general they would reverse the decline in spending and either sustain (for those already there) or move to (for those below) a 2% target (among other things).

Significant changes in expenditure often take many years to occur and come to fruition.  You don't just go down to Walmart and buy some more guns and say "hey, we spent more, aren't we cool?". 

So, again, stop making up BS just to fit your narrative.

You do realise that today is a bad day to just make stuff up when discussing this with me? Whenever I'm writing a paper I'm in ultra-check-the-facts-and-find-real-sources mode.  I can normally smell BS a fair way off, when I'm in academia mode, it is even more heightened.

So I recommend using facts, properly sourced, read, understood, and presented instead of just trying to spin everything as being someone else's fault.  There are valid complaints to be made, and they have been, but the sensationalist approach isn't going to pass.

Oh, and how lovely your Trump is.  London is attacked and he first tweets how his travel ban needs to be lifted by the courts, then after that he expresses sympathy and support.  If he wants a ban (even though so far there's no evidence that it has been immigrants or recent arrivals, who are targeted by the bans, or from any of the targeted countries), he should draft one that is going to be considered legal and constitutional and if he thinks the current ones are then he ought to refer them to the SCotUS.  Funny how he hasn't done that after telling judges originally that he'd see them in court.

+1

Fully agree with Phil's observations.

Cheers,
Bart

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

While you are busy attacking Trump and America, somebody else (wink, wink) is busy attacking the West.

Theresa May:

...time to say enough is enough... too much tolerance of extremism in our country...

Guess who peddles that tolerance? Spoiler: it ain't Trump.

[pegelli]

Lifted from the "Climate Change Thread"

Forget all agreements then.  America is telling Europe we need you to spend more on your own defense.  We need to cut our expenditures.  We can't afford it any more.  I'm sorry if you don't like it.  But that's the way it is.  It's like telling your wife who you promised that real fox fur coat  that sales have gone down.  Now, she'll have to accept faux fur instead. 

So first Trump (and you as one of his supporters) keep harping, bullying and postering we're not living up to an agreement. Once you understand there's no truth to what you thought was in the agreement you want to change the agreement. That's fine, but don't you think there is a better way to go about making these wishes known? The cerdibility of Trump in this matter is below zero, but I don't think he cares, because he's not really interested in a better result, only in more face time in the US media and more support from people who buy all the bullshit he spews out. If he was really interested in a "better" outcome he'd go about it much differently.

[Manoli]

While you are busy attacking Trump and America, somebody else (wink, wink) is busy attacking the West.
Theresa May:
Guess who peddles that tolerance? Spoiler: it ain't Trump.

Yup, she was talking about cyberspace - the likes of facebook, twitter, and social media giving these creatures a 'free' platform. Nothing like grasping at straws, Slobodan.

Meantime back on the right-wing pro-trump Takimag :

What an irony that Trump said, while in Saudi, that “terrorists and extremists and THOSE WHO GIVE THEM AID AND COMFORT must be driven out.” That asshole Salman, posing as a king, should have taken a bow. After the Orlando massacre in a gay nightclub, where 49 men were killed, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, a black American, never once mentioned the word “Islam.” “His motives may never be known,” was as far as she went. Ditto Obama after the San Bernardino killings: He urged Congress to pass stricter gun laws, never mentioning the fact that the killings were committed by husband-and-wife scumbags who had been radicalized in Saudi and the Middle East.

Abedi was known to the fuzz, but what good did it do those innocent young girls who lost their lives so cruelly after the concert? Had he been thrown in jail once he had taken to reciting Islamic prayers loudly in the streets, after having just returned from Libya, all those poor kids would still be alive.

See what I mean by political correctness being the main culprit? Our leaders are such hypocrites that I, for one, have given up. I thought Trump might do something, but then he goes and genuflects to the Saudis and then tells the Israelis—who started the whole mess by grabbing other people’s lands fifty years ago this week, the longest occupation of modern times—how well they’re doing, and yes, do start a peace process with those you’ve stolen land from \...

http://takimag.com/article/scum_life_taki/print#ixzz4j2pH1zhG

[kers]

Guess who peddles that tolerance? Spoiler: it ain't Trump.

In his selective ban of muslim countries Trump forgot Saoudi Arabia;

Almost al 911 terrorists came from there...as i recall.
Instead Trump sells enormous amount of arms to that country...

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

While you are busy attacking Trump and America, somebody else (wink, wink) is busy attacking the West.

Theresa May:

Guess who peddles that tolerance? Spoiler: it ain't Trump.

And it ain't the mayor of London either:

Trump criticized for tweet on London mayor after bridge attacks
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-trump-idUSKBN18U0YC

U.S. President Donald Trump came under fire on Sunday for criticizing London's mayor in the aftermath of attacks in the city that killed seven people and injured at least 48 others.

"In a tweet, Trump seized on comments by London Mayor Sadiq Khan, who said Britons should not be alarmed to see more police in the streets after three men drove a van into pedestrians on London Bridge before stabbing others nearby.

"At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is 'no reason to be alarmed!'" Trump tweeted.

"We must stop being politically correct and get down to the business of security for our people. If we don't get smart it will only get worse," Trump said.

In response, a spokesperson for the London mayor said Khan "is busy working with the police, emergency services and the government to coordinate the response to this horrific and cowardly terrorist attack."

"He has more important things to do than respond to Donald Trump's ill-informed tweet that deliberately takes out of context his remarks urging Londoners not to be alarmed when they saw more police - including armed officers - on the streets," the spokesperson said."

Despicable, Trumps reaction as well. First he promoted his controversial travel ban as an extra level of security for Americans, where it has the opposite effect, because it only feeds those who are radicalizing and plays into the cards of those recruiting for violent Jihad ...
Now quoting the Mayor of London out of context, trying to incite feelings of insecurity and more intolerance. Despicable.

Cheers,
Bart

[Schewe]

@realDonaldTrump tweets:

At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is "no reason to be alarmed!"


What the Mayor of London actually said:

"There aren’t words to describe the grief and anger that our city will be facing today. I’m appalled and furious that these cowardly terrorists would deliberately target innocent Londoners.

There can be no justification for the acts of these terrorists and I am quite clear that we will never let them win.

My message to Londoners and visitors to our great city is to be calm and vigilant today. You will see an increased police presence today, including armed officers and uniformed officers. There is no reason to be alarmed by this. We are the safest global city in the world. You saw last night as a consequence of our planning, our preparation, the rehearsals that take place, the swift response from the emergency services tackling the terrorists and also helping the injured."

So, Mayor Sadiq Khan (a muslim) made a critical mistake, he actually used too many words for Trump to understand so Trump only heard the words he wanted to hear and then took to Twitter to make a fool of himself...so, what else is new?

My sympathies to my English friends and my apologies for our stupid President...

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...

[Manoli]

 .. and then there was Sir Christopher Meyer, ex British Ambassador to the United States of America :

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

.. and then there was Sir Christopher Meyer, ex British Ambassador to the United States of America :

Well, as Trump said "We must stop being politically correct", and the former British Ambassador to the USA picked up on that with a typically British understatement: "Trump makes me puke".

Bravo!

Cheers,
Bart

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Russians Think Trump Might Be a Russian Asset, and They Might Be Right
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/05/russians-think-trump-might-be-a-russian-asset.html?mid=twitter-share-di

"Over the last several days, the Russia scandal has taken a darker turn. Friday night, the Washington Post reported that Jared Kushner tried during the presidential transition period to set up a secret communications channel with Moscow. Tuesday morning, CNN reported that, during the 2016 campaign, Russian officials discussed having leverage of a financial nature over Trump, which could be used to manipulate the Republican nominee. The exact nature of this relationship remains as yet unknown, but its parameters have shifted. The most innocent explanations of Donald Trump’s shadowy relationship with Russia have grown increasingly fanciful, while the most paranoid interpretations have grown increasingly more plausible."

A bit speculative for the moment, but not impossible ...

Cheers,
Bart

[Farmer]

Interesting observation I saw this morning.  For all of Trump's attempts to say his Muslim ban wasn't a ban (just a "pause"), his tweet yesterday literally called it a ban.

[Manoli]

\..

[mecrox]

Well, as Trump said "We must stop being politically correct", and the former British Ambassador to the USA picked up on that with a typically British understatement: "Trump makes me puke".

Bravo!

Cheers,
Bart

One wonders for how long folks like Mattis and Tillerson are going to put up with this buffoonery. They surely know the result will be - in fact, already is -  most of the world shutting out the Trump administration until he's gone and with that goes their jobs and their prestige. His reign so far seems like one long act of narcissism and self-destruction but perhaps that's all he's really capable of. My understanding is that scores of senior US departmental posts are still unfilled. The whole thing seems like a kind of sham government which will eventually just implode.

I can't imagine him Trump visiting the UK officially now. The public wouldn't wear it, not after all his crass remarks about London. Apart from the bastions of the kind of violent dictators he seems to admire, he is fast running out of places where he would be even slightly welcome.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Yup, she was talking about cyberspace - the likes of facebook, twitter, and social media giving these creatures a 'free' platform...

You sure about that? How about tolerance toward imams who radicalize in mosques? Tolerance for the flood of Muslims into the country, allowing them to reach a critical mass, after which it is the sheer number of radicalized ones that overwhelms the security services and makes it impossible to control?

As for "controlling" Facebook... it is like parents trying to do so. The moment they (parents) learned how, kids abandoned Facebook in droves and moved to new platforms, yet to be discovered by parents. They same thing with terrorists.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Now quoting the Mayor of London out of context, trying to incite feelings of insecurity and more intolerance. Despicable.

Is that the same mayor who said in the past that Londoners better get used to terrorism, as, you know, London is a metropolis, and it goes with the territory?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

So, Londoners have a Muslim mayor, Londoners are fiercely against Trump, Londoners are fully politically correct and embrace multiculturalism, and yet... it is Trump's fault that Muslims are attacking London?

[LesPalenik]

Yup, she was talking about cyberspace - the likes of facebook, twitter, and social media giving these creatures a 'free' platform.

I didn't get the impression that she was talking about cyberspace only.

“Enough is enough,” Theresa May said Sunday of the London Bridge Attack. In the Prime Minister’s speech Sunday, she said, “There is, to be frank, far too much tolerance of extremism in our country.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/news/archive/2017/06/theresa-mays-terrorism-strategy/529101/

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

..America is even more divided than ever before. But Trump does zero to try to bring people together, he constantly drives wedges between groups and foster distrust and even hatred. Has Trump don'e ANYTHING to actually help bring people together?...

Have you? You think this thread and your constant attacks on the President of the United States help bring people together?