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Author Topic: Trump II  (Read 1375269 times)

Farmer

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2100 on: April 05, 2017, 12:50:27 am »

Europe takes medical care of its people while spending a fraction of their wealth on their military while we defend them spending all our money. 

I've provided the real figures on this SO many times yet you still sprout this nonsense.  You do not expend all your military budget in Europe.  The percentage that you do spend is not enough to change your healthcare system.
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Phil Brown

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2101 on: April 05, 2017, 01:58:31 am »

I've provided the real figures on this SO many times yet you still sprout this nonsense.  You do not expend all your military budget in Europe.  The percentage that you do spend is not enough to change your healthcare system.
Of course we don't spend all of our military budget in Europe.  We have troops and ships all around the world.  My point was we're spending all of our money not leaving enough to take care of our people medically.   But they're spending their money on their health while we're spending our money protect them.  Why do we need 65-70,000 troops in Europe?  The point is Europe is rich and should defend itself.

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2102 on: April 05, 2017, 02:04:27 am »

Of course we don't spend all of our military budget in Europe.  We have troops and ships all around the world.  My point was we're spending all of our money not leaving enough to take care of our people medically.   But they're spending their money on their health while we're spending our money protect them.  Why do we need 65-70,000 troops in Europe?  The point is Europe is rich and should defend itself.

+1

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2103 on: April 05, 2017, 02:06:42 am »



It probably does no good to write on this thread because like most of the world, people’s minds are made up, and I don’t see anything changing.

That’s the problem, too much hate, not enough compassion, surely not enough open mindedness.

Though I believe who I vote for is personal but for the record I didn’t vote for DT or HRC, as honestly didn’t see much difference and even if I did, living in the places I do, my vote wouldn’t have counted anyway, so I voted my heart.

But living on the west side of LA you can’t be neutral.   You have to hate the opposing party.  Really hate, not look at life objectively and with compromise. 

I’m of the belief that government on all levels has failed us, or better put we’ve allowed them to, especially the anger people. 

The 4 major issues of my time, the housing crisis, Iraq, healthcare reform and climate debate is a screw up by both parties. 

Housing Crisis:

The Repubs gutted Glass–Steagall in 1999 with the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act and Bill C. signed off on it declaring Glass Stegall not in line with modern times.

Had it been left in place, derivatives never would have happened and Bill signed off cause he was in deep shit with the intern.

Iraq:

Bush got us into Iraq, but it was a democrat controlled congress that voted for it, especially the 5 highest placed democrats, some who ended up in the Obama White House in high positions.

4,500 Americans killed, along with hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis and trillions of dollars thrown away.  We can blow up Iraq, then rebuild it, then leave it to be torn up again.

How can we spend two trillion on Iraq, lose thousands of brave people, but not rebuild Detroit?  Who signs off on this stuff?  I’m defending no single party because all of their hands are dirty.

Healthcare:

Healthcare was a mess before Obamacare and we needed reform, but not when we’re told that we’ll only know what’s in it once it’s passed. How disgusting for a democracy/republic’s leader to make such a statement.

The Repubs had 8 years to write a fair and comprehensive alternative but never seemed to get around to it until the last moment. Officials from both parties need to spend more time working with each other and for their constituents  and less time screaming,  tweeting, posing for the camera and speed dialing lobbyists for free trips to Pebble Beach. 


Climate change.  I can read on this until my eyes bleed and don’t know who to believe.

It seems these threads have an anti U.S. bent and we’re not without our issues, but facts are facts.

I’m tired of anti U.S.  I work the world, pay the world, bring biz to the world and every single time no one ever lives to their agreements cause they all tell me, well you americans are all rich and racists.

Who taught them that?  I have a legal UK pink working card, have property there, pay my taxes to both countries and accept it, cause that’s the rules..   Why would I give a rats ass for anyone coming to the U.S. illegally taking resource, in social costs, healthcare and living above the law.

Why would I give shit about silly little  euro countries the size and gdp of Arkansas that want to tell us what to do?   

My health, home and car insurance has been raised 25 to 40% every year (over the average 15%) with a few small claims in 8 years (and I mean really small) and the insurance companies say it’s Obamacare.  I don’t 100% believe them, but I don’t see any elected official trying to protect the populace. 
China produces twice the pollutants as the U.S. and the EU is not totally squeaky clean and green when it comes to producing a perfect environment.

Ask Merkel how many coal fired plants they’re building.

I’m far from a climatologist, but to me the biggest risk is to the oceans, not beach front property in the Hamptons.  Let the oceans rise that’s been part of history, but don’t ask me to bleed for rich folks, that throw parties for 4 months a year.

5 countries, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Thailand and Vietnam uses the ocean as a floating garbage can and are responsible for 60% of the plastic waste in the oceans, soon to be 80% which means 1 ton of plastic for every 3 tons of fish.

If we’re going to live in a global economy we all need to play by the same rules.  You can’t turn America into one big solar plate with 60,000 pages of regulations, a big tax invoice and let everyone else off the hook.

There are few problems in this world that cannot be fixed, but not the way we’re going.  We need to open our minds, try our best to listen to an alternative opinion and work together with the same rules. 

You want all your neighbors to have opportunity and success, whether you like them or not.   That’s the real goal.

Not stupid cartoons, from angry people that read what that want to read, want a new election cause they’re like kids that didn’t get the toy they wanted  and disregard any forms of logic. 






IMO

BC
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 02:19:22 pm by bcooter »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2104 on: April 05, 2017, 02:24:04 am »

Nice post Russell. 

Alan Klein

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2105 on: April 05, 2017, 02:32:51 am »

Of course we don't spend all of our military budget in Europe.  We have troops and ships all around the world.  My point was we're spending all of our money not leaving enough to take care of our people medically.   But they're spending their money on their health while we're spending our money protect them.  Why do we need 65-70,000 troops in Europe?  The point is Europe is rich and should defend itself.
Oh, we have closer to 100,000 troops in Europe and we're spending $66 billion there. If we cut our forces even in half, that's $33 billion more we can spend on our sick.  $66 billion if we pull out entirely.  Let the rich Europeans provide and pay for more of their own soldiers to make up the difference.  We've bled enough for Europeans last century.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2106 on: April 05, 2017, 02:57:25 am »

Oh, we have closer to 100,000 troops in Europe and we're spending $66 billion there. If we cut our forces even in half, that's $33 billion more we can spend on our sick.  $66 billion if we pull out entirely.  Let the rich Europeans provide and pay for more of their own soldiers to make up the difference.  We've bled enough for Europeans last century.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-nato-border-forces-map-where-are-they-positioned-a7562391.html

I spend one half  my life in the UK and more 1/4 more in europe.  They're rich and they laugh at americans.    Let the U.S.  pay is what they say.  I've heard it 100 times.

So let the euros (not the UK)  defend themselves the U.S. and UK will be fine. Tough stuff but true.

Ice up baby.

IMO

BC

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2107 on: April 05, 2017, 03:01:22 am »

Of course we don't spend all of our military budget in Europe.  We have troops and ships all around the world.  My point was we're spending all of our money not leaving enough to take care of our people medically.   But they're spending their money on their health while we're spending our money protect them.  Why do we need 65-70,000 troops in Europe?  The point is Europe is rich and should defend itself.
Your story doesn't make a lot of sense Alan. The US spends about double the money on healthcare vs. OECD average (see graph) and is way above the European countries. Also the US spends more on the military than the next 5 or 6 nations together, because POTUS thinks you're losing too many battles. But maybe the problem isn't the amount you're spending on healthcare and the military, it's how and on what you're spending it. So before making all kinds of demands from others the first job would be to look at yourself and increase the efficiency of the money you're spending.
And if the US wants to reduce troops in Europe that's fine by me, but don't think it will solve the medical cost problem in the US.
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pieter, aka pegelli

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2108 on: April 05, 2017, 03:10:11 am »

Your story doesn't make a lot of sense Alan. The US spends about double the money on healthcare vs. OECD average

Peg baby, you make no sense.  You're a smart guy,  just pulling the facts you want to pull.   I'm all for the U.S. leaving the world alone.  Let you guys protect yourself, not take any cash from or help from America  and go your own socialist way.

We all know what will happen.  Ice Up Baby.

IMO

BC

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2109 on: April 05, 2017, 03:14:45 am »

Peg baby, you make no sense.  You're a smart guy,  just pulling the facts you want to pull.   I'm all for the U.S. leaving the world alone.  Let you guys protect yourself, not take any cash from or help from America  and go your own socialist way.

We all know what will happen.  Ice Up Baby.

IMO

BC
Hollow rhetoric makes no sence bcooter (imo).
Pulling back on island USA has never done you any good in the past and I don't think it will in the future.
But hey, everybody is entitled to their opinion, so I'm cool if you think differently.
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pieter, aka pegelli

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2110 on: April 05, 2017, 03:18:39 am »

Hollow rhetoric makes no sence bcooter (imo).
Pulling back on island USA has never done you any good in the past and I don't think it will in the future.
But hey, everybody is entitled to their opinion, so I'm cool if you think differently.

I'm glad your cool so ice up baby.  The times have changed.  We're paying and we're broke and everyone is laughing.   Those days are over.

And BTW: trillions in dept is not hollow when nobody else pays anything.  You're a smart guy and you know that money matters.

I live two places, the U.S. and the U.k. One and Island and one that wants to be.

I also do both legally and pay double tax.

Join he club man.

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:23:47 am by bcooter »
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2111 on: April 05, 2017, 03:26:46 am »

We're paying and we're broke and everyone is laughing.   
I'm not laughing, I just have pity.
I don't think it's right to blame others on going broke for military spending, but it might help a bit.
But your healthcare spending is entirely your own doing and you can only blame yourself.
If you only increase efficiency by 10% on each of these two items a lot of your problems will be solved.
I know you don't agree, but I won't ice-up (wouldn't know how and where to do that in this warming world ;) )
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pieter, aka pegelli

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2112 on: April 05, 2017, 03:34:25 am »

I'm not laughing, I just have pity.
I don't think it's right to blame others on going broke for military spending, but it might help a bit.
But your healthcare spending is entirely your own doing and you can only blame yourself.
If you only increase efficiency by 10% on each of these two items a lot of your problems will be solved.
I know you don't agree, but I won't ice-up (wouldn't know how and where to do that in this warming world ;) )

It's funny, you guys love to judge us.  You don't get it, when we didn't care we did good.  Now that we protect the world, drop trillions now everybody want's to talk down to us and make us like you.  We don't want to be you.  It's our worst nightmare.

We don't want your pity, we just don't want to know you.

And if I want to bring biz to your country you'll take the cash, usually under the grid.

Yea I get it.

New world. 

IMO

BC
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 03:49:57 am by bcooter »
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pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2113 on: April 05, 2017, 03:59:49 am »

We don't want your pity, we just don't want to know you.
OK, chin up, straight back, stop complaining and it will all change for the better  8)
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pieter, aka pegelli

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2114 on: April 05, 2017, 04:04:14 am »

OK, chin up, straight back, stop complaining and it will all change for the better  8)


Now I get it.   You work for a U.S agency.  How does that U.S. cash work for you?

Makes sense.

No complaining from me, just not agreeing.  Don't you get the point that we can learn from each other?

IMO

BC

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2115 on: April 05, 2017, 04:18:12 am »


Now I get it.   You work for a U.S agency.  How does that U.S. cash work for you?

Makes sense.

No complaining from me, just not agreeing.  Don't you get the point that we can learn from each other?

IMO

BC
Nope, I used to work for a US private enterprise (a pretty big and successful one) and I'm retired now. One of the keys to success of that company was a big effort to participate in competitive benchmarking and learning from how others work.

So I fully agree we can learn tremendously from each other, but then you have to be able to live with critique and look for the gems in there.

If you just dismiss the call for more efficiency in healthcare as "typical European anti-US talk" you'll get nowhere.
If you want to learn you take it on the chin, look at the data, benchmark how other countries do it and improve efficiency by taking over stuff that would work in your own country (and not take over stuff that wouldn't work for you).

I don't think you and I are that far apart how we look at the world, so just chill out and don't see me as a stereotype Europen socialist anti-American, because I'm not ;)
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pieter, aka pegelli

bcooter

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2116 on: April 05, 2017, 04:32:05 am »

Nope, I used to work for a US private enterprise (a pretty big and successful one) and I'm retired now. One of the keys to success of that company was a big effort to participate in competitive benchmarking and learning from how others work.

So I fully agree we can learn tremendously from each other, but then you have to be able to live with critique and look for the gems in there.

If you just dismiss the call for more efficiency in healthcare as "typical European anti-US talk" you'll get nowhere.
If you want to learn you take it on the chin, look at the data, benchmark how other countries do it and improve efficiency by taking over stuff that would work in your own country (and not take over stuff that wouldn't work for you).

I don't think you and I are that far apart how we look at the world, so just chill out and don't see me as a stereotype European socialist anti-American, because I'm not ;)

Effenciny.  I dig it.   dropped a bunch a long time ago for leds when nobody did led's;  turned all computers off even though I work 18 hour days and cut our bill in 1/2.

No battery or wind farm will do that.

I dig part of what you say, the tone is what I have issues with.  IMO you live here good . . .  we're a nation of immigrants but stop the bashing cause I'm bored.

My wife is from the UK, never had a sponsor, paid 1/3 of of salary to be legal and is the most patriotic person I know.    So stop the bashing.  Your not as smart as your think.

Your not better, your just judgmental.

Peace out, Ice out man and the last conversation we have.

BC

pegelli

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2117 on: April 05, 2017, 04:43:46 am »

Your not better, your just judgmental.
Peace out, Ice out man and the last conversation we have.
Stopping the conversation is how you stop learning, your choice.
And I'm judgemental? You judge by "tone" and that's not judgemental. I get it  :P
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pieter, aka pegelli

Otto Phocus

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2118 on: April 05, 2017, 06:34:30 am »

I like McCain.  But he's become a warmonger.  Maybe he should reenlist as a marine aviator and we can send him to drop bombs in Syria.  You'd think he'd remember what happened to him in North Vietnam and keep his head down instead of foisting death and dismemberment on today's young Americans.  And for what?  All those people over there hate our guts already.  After we drop some more bombs, they'll hate us even more.  A plague on all their houses.

Beware of old men [and women] eager to send young men and women off to fight wars.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Trump II
« Reply #2119 on: April 05, 2017, 06:54:55 am »

Your story doesn't make a lot of sense Alan. The US spends about double the money on healthcare vs. OECD average (see graph) and is way above the European countries. Also the US spends more on the military than the next 5 or 6 nations together, because POTUS thinks you're losing too many battles. But maybe the problem isn't the amount you're spending on healthcare and the military, it's how and on what you're spending it. So before making all kinds of demands from others the first job would be to look at yourself and increase the efficiency of the money you're spending.

Couldn't agree more. The US health system seems to be seriously flawed if you look at the statistics (see attached chart, I've shown it before in Reply #1825 of this thread).

Just fixing that imbalance, taking out the inefficiency and the needless cost would already do a lot of good to the population.

One could also question the amount spent of Defence, maybe there are similar inefficiencies involved. US Politicians should start doing their job for the people of the USA, not just to get lobbyist funding for reelection. Since it's unlikely that they will self-correct, the population should take initiatives, naming and shaming does work if that's the only way.

The solution often is not throwing more money at it, but spending more wisely. Then one can use the savings for improvements and allocation to other and changing priorities.

Take out the perverse stimuli that only drive up cost but achieve nothing for the benefit of the people, financing and improving quality of health care is a major and growing problem where lots of progress can be made.

Cheers,
Bart
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