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Author Topic: Brexit  (Read 342836 times)

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #360 on: July 01, 2016, 09:01:38 am »

Muck raking from America.

Maybe the USA will Trump Britain ???

Cheers,
Bart
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 09:33:25 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #361 on: July 01, 2016, 09:05:57 am »

Maybe the USA will Trump Britain ???

Hmmm... The prospect of negotiating for 7+ years with 27 pissed-off former partners or...negotiating with one that would gladly and immediately accept you as the 51st state?  ;)

stamper

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #362 on: July 01, 2016, 09:08:06 am »

Maybe the USA will Trump Britain ???

Cheer,
Bart

The one problem that Americans don't want to talk about, especially embarrassed republicans. I fully expected a while back a discussion in the Coffee corner would have taken place...but alas no.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #363 on: July 01, 2016, 11:25:10 am »

Sounds like a plan. You would get the Queen...

Oh, no! Not the queen... that doesn't bode well...given her recent message to Americans, revoking our independence:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-877980

 ;)

mbaginy

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Zorki5

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #365 on: July 01, 2016, 12:44:24 pm »

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-877980

Can't believe Her Majesty simply abolished baseball and didn't replace it with cricket, the world's most exciting game!
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #366 on: July 01, 2016, 01:02:17 pm »

A Canadian perspective:

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/rex-murphy-those-who-voted-to-leave-the-eu-werent-stupid-they-were-just-angry-and-with-cause

From the article (emphasis mine):

Quote
Even days after the vote, the losers cannot contain their scorn for the result, nor repress their anger at the low-rent, anti-immigrant, xenophobic Little Englanders whose views prevailed. The Leave side won, evidently, because the slow-witted and retrogressive elements of the population out-campaigned and outsmarted their demonstratively superior antagonists.

Rationalizing a loss is, of course, not a new phenomenon. But building a rationalization on the idea that the crowd you lost to cannot, as the phrase has it, walk and chew gum at the same time, is a novel excursion. If you lost to a pack of fools and social Neanderthals, and if you lost with your side having all respectable opinion, the organs of academia, the press and business interests on your side, then it should prompt some serious and not-too-flattering introspection. In a nutshell, if the Leave side was so stupid and out of touch with everything in the modern age, how on earth did Remain, with all that intelligence and authority, lose the vote?

Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #367 on: July 01, 2016, 02:28:08 pm »

Well the UK knew all of this before they started the referendum, they went in with their eyes open.
You can't change the rules after the play has begun, this needs to happen before you start.

The rules cover nothing of the kind. It's silly, petulant bloody-mindedness and it won't last.

Jeremy
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #368 on: July 01, 2016, 02:30:04 pm »

Oh, no! Not the queen... that doesn't bode well...given her recent message to Americans, revoking our independence:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-877980

 ;)

Very amusing, but far from new.

Jeremy
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #369 on: July 01, 2016, 02:37:22 pm »

Apparently we must invoke Article 50, leave and then negotiate trade terms. You could not make it up.

This is in part what seems to be wrong with the EU and once again riles the British people, well at least one.

Quite. And it's not even correct. Let's have a look at Article 50, which is mercifully short.

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

Paragraph 1 gives rise to the question of whether our "constitutional requirements" mandate that notice be approved by Parliament. The argument is that as paragraph 3 provides for automatic cessation of membership two years after notice is given, and that as there's no provision for cancelling notice once it is given, giving notice sets in motion the repeal of, among others, the European Communities Act 1972. Parliament can repeal any Act it has passed, so there's no difficulty there; but the Executive, invoking the Royal Prerogative, probably cannot.

Paragraphs 2 and 4 provide for negotiations on the provisions to replace membership and how they are to be conducted by the remaining states.

Paragraph 5 isn't relevant.

The important point is that nothing in Article 50 provides that negotiations must wait until we leave: quite the contrary. Cecilia Maelstrom is nothing more than yet another unelected EU official talking nonsense.

Jeremy
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pegelli

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #370 on: July 01, 2016, 02:47:31 pm »

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
Thanks Jeremy, agree this makes more sense. And (see bold) even the two years isn't cast in stone (which I think is good).
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pieter, aka pegelli

drmike

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #371 on: July 01, 2016, 03:54:50 pm »

The important point is that nothing in Article 50 provides that negotiations must wait until we leave: quite the contrary. Cecilia Maelstrom is nothing more than yet another unelected EU official talking nonsense.

Jeremy

They (EU officials) just don't get why the UK resents the way the EU works do they? She adopts a silly attitude which helps no-one that apparently is also incorrect. How can they not see that it is fairly easy to get people to want to Leave even though it's the wrong decision.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #372 on: July 01, 2016, 04:00:22 pm »

...How can they not see that it is fairly easy to get people to want to Leave even though it's it might be the wrong decision.

 ;)

drmike

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #373 on: July 01, 2016, 05:09:57 pm »

Of course you are right and I believe as a nation we had the will to make either decision work, my preference is to be in and encourage change but that's not an option now.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #374 on: July 01, 2016, 05:30:47 pm »

Thanks Jeremy, agree this makes more sense. And (see bold) even the two years isn't cast in stone (which I think is good).

Correct; but in reality, I suspect, two years would prove to be a maximum. I can't imagine 28 countries agreeing to continue to talk. It would make far more sense to start the negotiations and let them progress to a reasonably advanced stage without a looming deadline. Then notice can be given and things wrapped up.

Jeremy
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RSL

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #375 on: July 01, 2016, 07:53:53 pm »

Looks as if Czechoslovakia may be the next wheel to come off. The talks aren't going to go on terribly long because there's not going to be anybody left in the EU to talk.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #376 on: July 01, 2016, 08:22:37 pm »

Looks as if Czechoslovakia may be the next wheel to come off..

Oh, I do not know, Russ. I doubt that Czechoslovakia would dare. If they do, it might lead to such an internal strife that it might ultimately lead to a break up of their own country. How would they call the separate parts then, Czechia and Slovakia? Nah.

Rajan Parrikar

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #377 on: July 02, 2016, 03:31:56 am »

RSL

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #378 on: July 02, 2016, 08:30:05 am »

You're probably right, Slobodan. You know that part of the world a lot better than I do. But they're talking about it.
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pegelli

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #379 on: July 02, 2016, 08:55:00 am »

Oh, I do not know, Russ. I doubt that Czechoslovakia would dare. If they do, it might lead to such an internal strife that it might ultimately lead to a break up of their own country. How would they call the separate parts then, Czechia and Slovakia? Nah.
Well, in 1993 after the Velvet Divorce they called themselves Czech Republic and Slovakia.
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pieter, aka pegelli
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