Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Pro Business Discussion => Topic started by: LesPalenik on December 17, 2021, 11:36:26 am
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Jonathan Cross had a question in the Coffee Corner section about NFT's and Slobodan Blagojevic added his comment which made me to open a new thread NFT here.
I'm sure that a serious NFT discussion will be appreciated by many other photographers on LuLa.
My first question on this subject is whether an NFT can be created for a previously published photo or for an image which was previously sold on a stock photography site.
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I might be interested if I knew what a NTF was.
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I might be interested if I knew what a NTF was.
Non Fungible Token.
As for exactly what that is and how it relates to photography, I am expecting answers from someone more knowledgeable than me.
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I might be interested if I knew what a NTF was.
A good introduction to NFT was published last month by Jordan Banks at digitalcameraworld.com.
The mechanics of this process are reletively straightforward. The challenge, as in other money making endevours, is how to market your art work.
NFTs or non-fungible tokens are a new form of digital investable stored on the Ethereum blockchain. NFTs can be collected in the same way editions of photographic prints are in the traditional market. The result is a potential new avenue for photographers of all levels and genres to market and sell their work. The only difference from the traditional art market is that everything from transactions to ownership is conducted in a digital manner via the blockchain.
Photography and other forms of digital art have been historically snubbed by the traditional art market not recognising the ‘uniqueness’ of a digital piece. The rise of a new market that brings value to digital assets is an opportunity for photographers and collectors alike.
The arena is still in its infancy so it’s hard to be sure exactly at this stage of the best practices. Personally, I will only be minting my best images and keeping an air of exclusivity around my work by not flooding the market. As collectors are in general collecting pieces based on the artist rather than the single image, you will need to find your voice and get yourself in front of potential collectors.
Jordan Banks is a travel, landscape and adventure photographer from London with over 20 years’ experience shooting assignments and hi-end content for travel, tourism and lifestyle brands and companies. Through the years his work has taken him to over 100 countries and provided him the opportunity to shoot some of the world’s most interesting and diverse locations and festivals. He is National Geographic Landscape photographer of the year 2021.
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/how-i-sell-my-photographs-as-nfts
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Now I gotta look up fungible.
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Now I gotta look up fungible.
Most images would qualify, but steer away from toxic fungi.
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A good introduction to NFT was published last month by Jordan Banks at digitalcameraworld.com.
The mechanics of this process are reletively straightforward….
It is as good introduction as any art statement. Gibberish, in other words. A lot of fluff dancing around NFT ever telling what it is. The mechanics are straightforward? If so, what they are?
Long story short… WTF is NFT?
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NFTs are going to wind up having the same investment value as Beanie Babies.
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It is as good introduction as any art statement. Gibberish, in other words. A lot of fluff dancing around NFT ever telling what it is. The mechanics are straightforward? If so, what they are?
Long story short… WTF is NFT?
Slobodan, I opened this thread here since you criticized my post about Melania Trump's NFT in the original NFT thread in the Coffee Corner section being a distraction. It pains me to point out that your comment above wasn't any more constructive. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable on NFT's will explain it in more detail than Jordan Banks in the referenced article above.
BTW, I just heard that NFTT is an abbreviation for Non Fungible Tesla Truck.
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BTW, I just heard that NFTT is an abbreviation for Non Fungible Tesla Truck.
I thought it was Non Functional Tesla Truck. ;)
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... It pains me to point out that your comment above wasn't any more constructive. Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable on NFT's will explain it in more detail than Jordan Banks in the referenced article above...
Fair enough.
In my defense, i was commenting on the quote from the article, not the article itself (which I didn't read - yes, my bad).
I went quickly through the article just now. I still didn't find what NFT is. Everything else seems to be there, but not what it is.
So, here is my elementary understanding what it is, based on a quick conversation with someone with a blockchain experience.
NFT is basically your good, old jpeg or tiff file, to which a digital token has been attached, guaranteeing its authenticity. If it is a single file, than the authenticity of that file. If it is a limited edition, then you would attach, say 3 files to that token.
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What I don't understand is why someone who wouldn't give you $50 for one of your photos framed would suddenly give you thousands for a digital jpeg of it?
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What I don't understand is why someone who wouldn't give you $50 for one of your photos framed would suddenly give you thousands for a digital jpeg of it?
That "someone" wouldn't. But there are other someones who would. Thousands are not guaranteed, of course. Like everything else on the art market, it depends on your name recognition, mostly.
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What about trying to resell it?
I'd rather hold the real thing.
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I'm sure that a serious NFT discussion will be appreciated by many other photographers on LuLa.
The first problem is, this topic is somewhat being hijacked by a few who are questionable stock worthy or pro photographers and feel this is the Coffee Corner worthy distraction. 😰
To answer your quetsion, with half an answer (at least that's a start), it depends:
https://www.fabionodariphoto.com/en/how-to-sell-pictures-videos-nft/
In a former life, long before NFT or anything like it, I sold stock through Tony Stone (later Getty) and indeed, it depends on your contract with a stock agency. I seriously don't it is any different today, but from those I still talk with in stock (a miserable condition for many), these photographers have even less collective powers than I had in the 80's and 90's.
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I think I'll relabel all my prints with names like NFT#1, NFT#@, etc.
(Except, of course, for that very special set which is already named WTF#1, WTF#2, etc.) 8)
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The problem with NFT's is that they are centered around a technology that a sizable portion of folks just don't fully understand. I see it as a way for people to support artists they like, with something that doesn't feel like a stack of cash. As the purchases are made with a digital currency that has huge fluctuations in value (trending upward) means the art itself isn't appreciating as much as the cash equivalent is going up.
There is a cost to 'mint' the art into a NFT. Like most things digital, there is a lot of fraud & theft that happens. Sports leagues like the NHL & NBA are active in it, as well as brands like Adidas. Some 'togs like JoeyL have done large sales of NFT's.
In order to make any money in it, you have to have a large social media following, be active in the existing NFT spaces & hope that folks will get out their virtual wallets for your items.
Before spending any money, dig a bit further into the virtual currencies, as that's what you'll need to accept & turn into a fiat currency like US Dollars. Check out http://Coinbase.com - they are a larger player & have a learning section. Then look at the current NFT marketplaces, places like http://opensea.io - see what's currently listed, and if what you offer would fit.
Do not put something up there you're not ok with the world stealing. I personally am not interested in NFT's, but good luck to those who are.
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The problem with NFT's is that they are centered around a technology that a sizable portion of folks just don't fully understand. I see it as a way for people to support artists they like, with something that doesn't feel like a stack of cash. As the purchases are made with a digital currency that has huge fluctuations in value (trending upward) means the art itself isn't appreciating as much as the cash equivalent is going up.
There is a cost to 'mint' the art into a NFT. Like most things digital, there is a lot of fraud & theft that happens. Sports leagues like the NHL & NBA are active in it, as well as brands like Adidas. Some 'togs like JoeyL have done large sales of NFT's.
In order to make any money in it, you have to have a large social media following, be active in the existing NFT spaces & hope that folks will get out their virtual wallets for your items.
Before spending any money, dig a bit further into the virtual currencies, as that's what you'll need to accept & turn into a fiat currency like US Dollars. Check out http://Coinbase.com - they are a larger player & have a learning section. Then look at the current NFT marketplaces, places like http://opensea.io - see what's currently listed, and if what you offer would fit.
Do not put something up there you're not ok with the world stealing. I personally am not interested in NFT's, but good luck to those who are.
The main issue is most people buy artwork including photographs to keep the physical object on display in their homes. An NFT doesn't allow that as far as I'm aware. It's just an investment device. I think there are safer investments than a digital jpeg in your computer.
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The main issue is most people buy artwork including photographs to keep the physical object on display in their homes.
You speaking for yourself or everyone who buys artwork, photography or otherwise? No need to answer, the text above is an obvious generalization based on an assumption.
An NFT doesn't allow that as far as I'm aware. It's just an investment device.
Try the Google machine and as it "can I print my NFT", you may learn something. Until then, speculation from someone never lets ignorance of a subject get in the way of having an opinion about it.
I think there are safer investments than a digital jpeg in your computer.
My comment above rings true in this respect too. But whatever, don't invest in NFTs.
The problem with NFT's is that they are centered around a technology that a sizable portion of folks just don't fully understand.
You are SO correct about that as outlined here. ;)
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Lot of articles emphasize how to invest in NFTs, not how to earn money.
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Lot of articles emphasize how to invest in NFTs, not how to earn money.
What are they going to be worth when you try to resell them?
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What are they going to be worth when you try to resell them?
What will the Dow close on February 22, 2022?
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Personally, I would never attempt to funge a token, especially a non-fungible one (i.e., NFT.) 8)
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Interesting analogy:
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For several decades now, you can buy land on Mars. For $29.99 you get a deed and a map of the lot.
I wonder if Musk and the Mars colonizers will respect those properties.
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For several decades now, you can buy land on Mars. For $29.99 you get a deed and a map of the lot.
I wonder if Musk and the Mars colonizers will respect those properties.
Which is a better investment choice? NFT's or Mars property? :)
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Which is a better investment choice? NFT's or Mars property? :)
Invest in both and let us know.
“Experience is a wonderful thing, it enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.“ -Source Unknown
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If you buy Mars property, be sure to put a fence around it with signs saying "No Hunting, Fishing, or Trapping."
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If you buy Mars property, be sure to put a fence around it with signs saying "No Hunting, Fishing, or Trapping."
Seems a better investment than this, but hopefully Alan reports back 😝:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/melania-trump-nft-moneymaker-1277158/
Melania Trump‘s decision to sell an NFT, or a non-fungible token, was met with healthy skepticism when the former first lady announced the move earlier this month.
Donald Trump had said in June that cryptocurrency is a “scam against the dollar.”
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Which is a better investment choice? NFT's or Mars property? :)
Years ago, a friend of mine bought a half an acre lot unseen somewhere around Ft. Myers in Florida.
Later it turned out, it was in some swampy area. Ideal for hunting gators and pythons. But the cost was much higher than the aforementioned Mars property.
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Years ago, a friend of mine bought a half an acre lot unseen somewhere around Ft. Myers in Florida.
Later it turned out, it was in some swampy area. Ideal for hunting gators and pythons. But the cost was much higher than the aforementioned Mars property.
The Marx Brothers made a movie in 1928 that was about the Florida land swamp scams of the 1920's. It was called The Coconuts. That was right before he, one of his brothers and Eddie Cantor lost everything in the 1929 crash along with millions more. By the way, if anyone's interested, I've got some land to sell in Florida today. No swamps. Promise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cocoanuts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_land_boom_of_the_1920s
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The Marx Brothers made a movie in 1928 that was about the Florida land swamp scams of the 1920's. It was called The Coconuts.
Once again, you got the facts wrong.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0019777/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cocoanuts (clearly you didn't read that).
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." --Mark Twain
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DP Review now has an article enititled, 'Associated Press to launch NFT photography marketplace on January 31'. It seems that AP images can be bought and traded. What I do not understand (I admit I have not read details) is how many copies of an image will be made available and how does one guarantee that AP will not release more copies after a purchase, thereby diluting an investment.
It is a bit like purchasing a limited edition print. Unless you know the original has been destroyed irretrievably, there is always the danger of more prints being released in the future, e.g. in a different size.
I am not convinced!
Jonathan
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DP Review now has an article enititled, 'Associated Press to launch NFT photography marketplace on January 31'. It seems that AP images can be bought and traded. What I do not understand (I admit I have not read details) is how many copies of an image will be made available and how does one guarantee that AP will not release more copies after a purchase, thereby diluting an investment.
It is a bit like purchasing a limited edition print. Unless you know the original has been destroyed irretrievably, there is always the danger of more prints being released in the future, e.g. in a different size.
I am not convinced!
Jonathan
can you make a print from the NFT you purchased and if not what is the point of having the NFT.
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Another article on the subject:
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/selling-photographs-as-nfts-a-pro-travel-photographer-gives-his-top-tips?fbclid=IwAR1M3MmAi8f0tCWr6Ec53m1cHUVINxPDxvPhrFKF94JetvnUGldJAyhsmVk
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Another article on the subject:
https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/features/selling-photographs-as-nfts-a-pro-travel-photographer-gives-his-top-tips?fbclid=IwAR1M3MmAi8f0tCWr6Ec53m1cHUVINxPDxvPhrFKF94JetvnUGldJAyhsmVk
Great explanation of what he did. This is a great avenue for artists to sell their works if they're good.
But my question is from the buyer's perspective. It's still not clear to me what you do with an NFT except hold it as an investment. Then, hope someone else in the future will pay more for it than you did.
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You can make multiple NFT copies from a single image.
Purpose of an NFT is not guaranteeing uniqueness and exclusivity of the image. An NFT is used to track a unique copy of a file that the NFT points to, such as some artwork or an expensive watch.
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You can make multiple NFT copies from a single image.
Purpose of an NFT is not guaranteeing uniqueness and exclusivity of the image. An NFT is used to track a unique copy of a file that the NFT points to, such as some artwork or an expensive watch.
How does that help the buyer? What does he gain from buying an NFT? Can he make a picture from it and hang it on his wall? Can he resell pictures made from it?
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How does that help the buyer? What does he gain from buying an NFT? Can he make a picture from it and hang it on his wall? Can he resell pictures made from it?
You have this odd habit of asking questions of others, when your long posting history and agenda show/prove, you have no desire or ability to accept any answer. No need to ask.
Everything you ever wanted to know about NTFs but will not read/accept:
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/investing/nft-non-fungible-token/
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/374651
https://www.theurbanlist.com/a-list/what-are-nfts
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In the case of the NBA NFT's, the list of what you can do is short, and the list of what you can't do is very long, including any monetization.
https://decrypt.co/60808/so-you-bought-an-nba-top-shot-nft-what-do-you-actually-own
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-happens-to-digital-art-nft-servers-shut-down-2021-3
Basically if you decide to put money into NFT's, don't expect anything back, ever.
The NFT itself is like a certificate of authenticity - if it doesn't convey rights to the holder, just a note that says 'this is authentic' with a way to check. If the NFT doesn't include a full rights release to the holder of the NFT, you can't do anything other than hold it.
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In the case of the NBA NFT's, the list of what you can do is short, and the list of what you can't do is very long, including any monetization.
https://decrypt.co/60808/so-you-bought-an-nba-top-shot-nft-what-do-you-actually-own
https://www.businessinsider.com/what-happens-to-digital-art-nft-servers-shut-down-2021-3
Basically if you decide to put money into NFT's, don't expect anything back, ever.
The NFT itself is like a certificate of authenticity - if it doesn't convey rights to the holder, just a note that says 'this is authentic' with a way to check. If the NFT doesn't include a full rights release to the holder of the NFT, you can't do anything other than hold it.
That's what I thought. So you're buying nothing. You're better off buying an acre in the Florida swamp.
The only hope you have is that some other person, under the greater fool theory, might spend more money to buy what you're holding. Sounds like Beanie Babies. Those used to be worth a lot. Everyone was collecting them. My wife has a couple. I looked them up and see I can get $3.99 for each. I can also give them to our grandson to play with something you can't do with NFTs.
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That's what I thought. So you're buying nothing. You're better off buying an acre in the Florida swamp.
Once again evidence of a failure to understand the text (answer) provided to his question. Followed by an assumption.
Nothing new here.
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How does that help the buyer? What does he gain from buying an NFT? Can he make a picture from it and hang it on his wall? Can he resell pictures made from it?
These are two different things which shouldn't be mixed:
1. NFT provides an authenticity certificate for an item.
2. Copyright for an artwork is owned by the original artist. Reproduction rights from such artwork are subject to a licence, similar to stock photography licence. One-time use, special licence to cover certain uses or royalty-free unlimited licence. In special circumstances an arrangement can be made to purchase or transfer a copyright.
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These are two different things which shouldn't be mixed:
But they were and still will be mixed (up). But yes, the two of us agree on this, and yes, thanks for making an effort to explain it for further mixed-up comments that are sure to follow your explanation. :'(
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These are two different things which shouldn't be mixed:
1. NFT provides an authenticity certificate for an item.
2. Copyright for an artwork is owned by the original artist. Reproduction rights from such artwork are subject to a licence, similar to stock photography licence. One-time use, special licence to cover certain uses or royalty-free unlimited licence. In special circumstances an arrangement can be made to purchase or transfer a copyright.
What is the intrinsic value of an NFT other than to sell it for a higher price if you can get it?
1. What value is an authenticity certificate to the buyer? Years ago, a company used to sell stars in the heavens. They would send you an authenticity certificate in your name guaranteeing it was yours. What's the point? For ten or twenty bucks, it was a cute gimmick, a conversation piece. But what did you really own?
2. If the NFT does not come with the rights to print it or sell it, what do you own? Nothing. It's like the aforementioned star. So what is the standard arrangement the buyer gets with most NFT's that are sold? At least when I buy a photo, I get one copy. I may not have the copyright or rights to make others. But I can hang that one photo on the wall. How do you hang an NFT?
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But yes, the two of us agree on this, and yes, thanks for making an effort to explain it for further mixed-up comments that are sure to follow your explanation. :'(
Like clockwork.
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What is the intrinsic value of an NFT other than to sell it for a higher price if you can get it?
1. What value is an authenticity certificate to the buyer? Years ago, a company used to sell stars in the heavens. They would send you an authenticity certificate in your name guaranteeing it was yours. What's the point? For ten or twenty bucks, it was a cute gimmick, a conversation piece. But what did you really own?
2. If the NFT does not come with the rights to print it or sell it, what do you own? Nothing. It's like the aforementioned star. So what is the standard arrangement the buyer gets with most NFT's that are sold? At least when I buy a photo, I get one copy. I may not have the copyright or rights to make others. But I can hang that one photo on the wall. How do you hang an NFT?
I never recommended to buy NFT. Unless you buy Melania Trump's Vision NFT with her blue eyes and then you have a real conversation piece.
Back in November, Mike Winkelmann, a.k.a. the digital artist Beeple, sold an NFT titled Crossroads that changed based on the outcome of the 2020 election. If Trump retained office, the artwork depicted him muscle-bound and naked, stomping through hell. If Biden won, the 10-second video would depict the 45th president’s lifeless and graffiti-covered corpse sprawled in a park. The first time around, someone bought Crossroads for $66,666.60, but in late February, it was resold on the secondary market for a whopping $6.6 million.
Grimes, born Claire Boucher, sold a suite of her digital artworks as NFTs in late February, netting her a cool $5.8 million. But turning just one of those pieces, with 303 editions, into an NFT produced an estimated 70 metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions. That’s about the equivalent of the electricity used by 10 homes in the course of a year.
https://www.mic.com/p/the-weirdest-nfts-being-sold-right-now-65517517
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I never recommended to buy NFT. Unless you buy Melania Trump's Vision NFT with her blue eyes and that you have a real conversation piece.
https://www.mic.com/p/the-weirdest-nfts-being-sold-right-now-65517517
How do you show others the NFT of her eyes? Wouldn't an 8x10 be better?
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How do you show others the NFT of her eyes? Wouldn't an 8x10 be better?
8x10 would be indeed better. But with NFT, you get the bragging rights.
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How do you show others the NFT of her eyes? Wouldn't an 8x10 be better?
Like this:
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Like this:
The whole thing seems silly to me except for the artist who can make some money. I wonder how much the NFT cost Mr. Nguyen? I could just seem him walking down some dark alley in Saigon, tapping on someone's shoulder, and flashing the NFT picture, "Psst, Comrade. Would you like to see a picture of Melania Trump's eyes?" Yup. Silly.
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NFT's only exist to get you to put your cash into crypto currencies, thus making you the newest fool.
https://fstoppers.com/opinion/brutal-takedown-nfts-explains-how-each-new-investor-bigger-fool-last-594239
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NFT's only exist to get you to put your cash into crypto currencies, thus making you the newest fool.
https://fstoppers.com/opinion/brutal-takedown-nfts-explains-how-each-new-investor-bigger-fool-last-594239
It's bad enough The Fed is ripping us off. :)
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It's bad enough The Fed is ripping us off. :)
Absurd as usual.
But this is a real ripoff:
Collectors of NFTs that used OpenSea have been affected by a phishing attack, with a total of 254 tokens estimated to be worth more than $1.7 million stolen over a three-hour period.
On Saturday, OpenSea became aware of rumors that smart contracts connected to the non-fungible token (NFT) marketplace. In investigating the claims, it discovered that users were actually being affected by a fairly typical phishing attack.
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According to the Financial Times here in the UK this weekend HM Revenue and Customs has seized NFTs in a suspected fraud case involving VAT. Expert opinion is that this demonstrates an increased capacity to track and trace crypto assets to crack down on evasion and ensure the right tax is paid.
Investors beware!
Jonathan
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According to the Financial Times here in the UK this weekend HM Revenue and Customs has seized NFTs in a suspected fraud case involving VAT. Expert opinion is that this demonstrates an increased capacity to track and trace crypto assets to crack down on evasion and ensure the right tax is paid.
Investors beware!
Jonathan
It seems In America NFTs are considered an asset so no sales tax is added. Why would VAT be added there? Would you add a VAT on a share of corporate stock? Just what is an NFT?
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It seems In America NFTs are considered an asset so no sales tax is added. Why would VAT be added there? Would you add a VAT on a share of corporate stock? Just what is an NFT?
In the UK selling an asset can be subject to tax, usually Capital Gains tax. If a sale occurs as part of a trade then VAT may need to paid by the buyer, currently 20%. You can get taxed either at purchase or sale! This does not apply to selling your house, but there is a sliding scale for the purchaser.
Jonathan
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In the UK selling an asset can be subject to tax, usually Capital Gains tax. If a sale occurs as part of a trade then VAT may need to paid by the buyer, currently 20%. You can get taxed either at purchase or sale! This does not apply to selling your house, but there is a sliding scale for the purchaser.
Jonathan
Capital Gains tax (Federal) in America is on stock where you're telling it for more than you paid for it (a profit). Usually, the stock is held for over a year. Each state may apply an income tax as well. But there's no sales tax applied. It's not like you're buying a camera. In UK, are VAT's applied to stock or other assets? Is an NFT considered an asset there or a product?
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Apparently, 32 states charge sales tax for NFT's. It's all very confusing.
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/state-sales-tax-sale-non-fungible-tokens-nfts-questions-and-answers
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Canon offers a free online workshop about NFT on Feb 24th.
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/nfts-for-creators-with-tristan-obrien-kelsey-johnson-and-dirk-dallas-tickets-262067570157
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It's all very confusing.
”Education costs money, but then so does ignorance.”-Claus Moser
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Anyone who invents a way to funge tokens will make a bundle!
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