Thoughts on Sony's MF sensor strategy

[Jim Kasson]

Their non-modular design slows down their product release schedule, and complicates inventory control, je crois.

Touché!

[tsjanik]

I met a guy from Rochester who knew some people who worked at Kodak, and he told me that was a significant operation.
Memento Mori (remember thou art mortal). (wikipedia image).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori#mediaviewer/File:Danse_macabre_by_Michael_Wolgemut.png




Edmund

Pentax is not Kodak.  I worked in Rochester for a few years; Kodak suffered from the arrogance of being the best for so many years.   Any arrogance that Pentax may have had would have been eliminated by the Hoya acquisition.

Tom

[eronald]

Pentax is not Kodak.  I worked in Rochester for a few years; Kodak suffered from the arrogance of being the best for so many years.   Any arrogance that Pentax may have had would have been eliminated by the Hoya acquisition.

Tom

Tom,

 I do wonder whether a Harvard business case has been written for Kodak, and whether there was a different way out. Anyway, I was writing about a different MF camera manufacturer, not Pentax not Hassy,  which does, I believe suffer a bit from "best" syndrome. I think elimination will get you there

Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

I do wonder whether a Harvard business case has been written for Kodak, and whether there was a different way out.

I guess that Fujifilm provides a clear proof that there was at least one way out.

Cheers,
Bernard

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I don't know, there is a market for high end stuff. It may be high end audio, watches or cars. I sort of cannot relate to it I am a Toyota, Seiko kind of guy. I prefer stuff that works and does it with minimum hassle. Also I feel that there is good enough. Also, I am not really a believer in magic.

Now, I pretty much feel there are a couple of non magic advantages to medium format.

- Larger format, mostly good
- More pixels, always good
- Lenses may be better, specially in relative terms
- MFD backs can be used with technical cameras, may be a good thing, but it cannot be done with the Leica S or the Pentax 645Z

I do feel that there is an overmarketing of MFD.

Watches is a good example, there is a significant demand for high end watches. None of those are better more functional than an Iphone with a few 10$ apps or even a Casio.

Best regards
Erik

Tom,

 I do wonder whether a Harvard business case has been written for Kodak, and whether there was a different way out. Anyway, I was writing about a different MF camera manufacturer, not Pentax not Hassy,  which does, I believe suffer a bit from "best" syndrome. I think elimination will get you there

Edmund

[eronald]

Hi,

I don't know, there is a market for high end stuff. It may be high end audio, watches or cars. I sort of cannot relate to it I am a Toyota, Seiko kind of guy. I prefer stuff that works and does it with minimum hassle. Also I feel that there is good enough. Also, I am not really a believer in magic.

Now, I pretty much feel there are a couple of non magic advantages to medium format.

- Larger format, mostly good
- More pixels, always good
- Lenses may be better, specially in relative terms
- MFD backs can be used with technical cameras, may be a good thing, but it cannot be done with the Leica S or the Pentax 645Z

I do feel that there is an overmarketing of MFD.

Watches is a good example, there is a significant demand for high end watches. None of those are better more functional than an Iphone with a few 10$ apps or even a Casio.

Best regards
Erik

Big Single Purchase for super-rich people
Big commissions for dealer
Big weight in camera bag
Big impression on client
Big prints
Big croppability

[AOK]

I am no MF pro. Which of the trio has best glass?

Phase
Hassi
Pentax

I presume each has own mount...right?

[Doug Peterson]

I am no MF pro. Which of the trio has best glass?

Phase
Hassi
Pentax

Which maker has the best car?
What's the best city?
Who is the most beautiful women in the world?
What's the best pint of beer?
Who is john galt?

Can you provide us some idea of what you're priorities and desires are, and what kind of budget?

A Rodenstock 32HR can provide sharp corners on an 80mp back with rise and tilt but is nearly 10k requires a tech cam like an Arca Swiss rm3di body.

A Schneider lens on a df+ can sync with flash up to 1/1600th of a sec.

A Hassy 110/2 and mamiya 80/1.9 are the fastest lenses you can buy (re aperture) but can only be used with manual focus, manual stop down, and on a body with a focal plane shutter.

A hassy 100/2.2 is the fastest aperture lens you can buy with autofocus but some other lenses in the hassy/phase/Leica/Rollei lenses are sharper wide open.

Some Rollei lenses are greatly respected but can only be used with some digital backs.

Many like the look of RZ lenses especially for shooting people and it's hard to find a lens line with as much performance per dollar, but MF only and no super wides.

Some lenses cover full frame 645, or even more, while others only cover a crop sensor. If you only have a crop sensor this isn't very important.

The phase 150d/2.8 is brutally sharp wide open but is larger and heavier than the Schneider 150ls.

Some lenses are not available new anymore. Some lenses are even hard to get serviced.

Some lens lineups are easily available in rental while others are not.

Etc etc etc.

You'll find there are few bad choices in medium format. That said there usually is a stand out for any given set of priorities and budget.

[AOK]

Wow. I didn't realize things are that deep. Thank you for opening my eyes.

Perhaps with a little help from you I can manage to understand things better.

Now Pentax is $8k. While the other two are in the two digit $K range. Let's say money is NO consideration to me.

But ISO is! Lens is heavy? No issue. Bring it on! I ain't scared.

Are there ANY good quality fast glasses from Pentax?
Or is there any mount from any other system to Pentax.

Or Pentax lenses aren't even close to "all the best"?

[Doug Peterson]

What do you take pictures of? What focal length ranges will be important to you (here you can see focal length equivalents)? Are you located anywhere you can try out some lenses before you make any decisions?

I can't speak to Pentax lenses as DT (my employer) does not sell them.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Pentax has some good quality lenses and some lenses that are less good. New designs in the digital era are often better than older ones. In addition, there are sample variations.

I have seen some images at actual pixels from the P645D that were very sharp and it seems most owners are pretty happy with it.

Keep in mind that new lenses may be quite expensive.

Lloyd Chambers, has tested many of the available lenses a couple of years ago: http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/DAP/Pentax645D/index.html

This is a pay site, around 50$ for the DAP site alone, but it may be a worthwhile investment to read before spending on the Pentax.

Best regards
Erik

Wow. I didn't realize things are that deep. Thank you for opening my eyes.

Perhaps with a little help from you I can manage to understand things better.

Now Pentax is $8k. While the other two are in the two digit $K range. Let's say money is NO consideration to me.

But ISO is! Lens is heavy? No issue. Bring it on! I ain't scared.

Are there ANY good quality fast glasses from Pentax?
Or is there any mount from any other system to Pentax.

Or Pentax lenses aren't even close to "all the best"?

[Frank Doorhof]

I think it's very interesting what's happening.
I switched from Canon to Sony for the look and dynamic range, the customer support NEEDS to be much better for pros but I'm pretty happy, however I have direct lines with Sony.

The A7r is a dropdead awesome camera and could be the best image quality delivering camera in the market today (in the FF market that is).

I still very much prefer the look of the Credo60 on a DF+ and RZ but..... I have to be honest it's a lot more expensive of course.

I hope Sony will deliver a bigger sensor like the Credo60, one of the main reasons for me to go to MF is the sensor size, especially on the RZ of course. I'm also curious to see if the Sony sensor will yield the same "look" that the "old" sensors give, but the idea of being able to shoot ISO 3200 and up without noise and with the huge dynamic range does water my mouth