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Author Topic: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???  (Read 65119 times)

telyt

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #300 on: March 16, 2013, 10:29:26 PM »

Re. focus and recompose,
If I may be allowed an explanation for the trigonometrically challenged
For each lens, subject (and aperture), if you are far enough foc and rec works, if you are closer it don't.

This mirrors Canon's advice.  Canon recommends against focus - recompose at close range with shallow DOF.  My experience too.
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #301 on: March 17, 2013, 04:08:24 AM »


Whether any of the secondary focus points on your average dSLR really improves on focus and recompose at f5.6 probably depends on your lottery number.

Edmund

If your cameras secondary focus points are accurate you are more likely to get more accurate focusing that focus and recompose for several reasons.

First of all with fast focusing lenses you focus right up to the instant in which you shoot the image.
With focus and recompose you have a delay while you recompose so if the subject moves forward the focus locked before
re-composition will be off. Also in my experience a model that is going through different poses always creeps forward.
When focus and recompose is used when the photographer his head has to tilt down. The fulcrum on which it tilts down is
below the cranium and a few inches behind the camera. Due to this the camera is going to move forward and the head tilts down.
This moves the focus plane even further back. Using a tripod will be similar as the rotation point is well below the camera.

There is also another reason why this whole focus and recompose issue is a problem and it is the high resolution of
the files. Art directors expect to be able to crop images quite a bit and we all know the closer you crop in on an image the more you see and focus errors.

It also depends somewhat on what you photograph.
If you shoot models they don't have much to do with the final selection of what is published.
No problem for the photographer to ditch the slightly off focus ones.
If you shoot celebrities for example it is not uncommon for the publicist to insist on reviewing
the images and choosing the one's to run or at least participate in the choice.
It's really annoying to have to tell them that an expression or pose they like should be rejected because of a focus error. 

Then there is the issue of wiggling the camera infront of your subject. Focus/recompose again and again... wiggle wiggle wiggle.
Personally I don't find it conducive to creating a mood or atmosphere.
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jerome_m

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #302 on: April 16, 2013, 01:33:49 PM »

I am still testing the H3D versus the D800 (not necessarily for this forum, I would do it for myself alone) and I tried to compare the bokeh of the two systems. This time I will not be criticised for using a zoom lens, but I will probably be criticised because the two focal length do not match  ::) I used the HC 80mm f/2.8 on the H3D-31 and the Nikon AF-S 50mm f/1.4G on the D800. The pictures are taken from the same point: I took one camera from the tripod and mounted the other one in its place.

The whole set with the pictures is here. There are two tests, one with flowers and one with a tree.

I added more pictures to that address. This time, I compared the HC 80mm f/2.8 to the Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8 (the focal lengths match better) and the HC 150mm f/3.2 to the DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2D. Here also the focal length match very well and the DC-Nikkor was chosen as a lens designed to render beautiful bokeh. The DC feature allows to adjust the bokeh either to the front or to the rear of the focus plane.

I try to summarize the finding in a single picture here:


Bokeh-compare by jerome_Munich

As I already said, I am not doing this test for this forum, but to learn about the lenses myself. My conclusion is that the Hasselblad system gives much more natural results, but anyone is welcomed to download the pictures (the full resolution can be reached using the magnifier in the flickr interface) and come to their own conclusions.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 01:37:13 PM by jerome_m »
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #303 on: April 17, 2013, 12:47:05 AM »

I added more pictures to that address. This time, I compared the HC 80mm f/2.8 to the Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8 (the focal lengths match better) and the HC 150mm f/3.2 to the DC-Nikkor 105mm f/2D. Here also the focal length match very well and the DC-Nikkor was chosen as a lens designed to render beautiful bokeh. The DC feature allows to adjust the bokeh either to the front or to the rear of the focus plane.

I try to summarize the finding in a single picture here:


Bokeh-compare by jerome_Munich

As I already said, I am not doing this test for this forum, but to learn about the lenses myself. My conclusion is that the Hasselblad system gives much more natural results, but anyone is welcomed to download the pictures (the full resolution can be reached using the magnifier in the flickr interface) and come to their own conclusions.

I downloaded the two files and it's quite clear that the hasselblad is focused closer and the scale of the subject in the Hasselblad image is larger.
The closer focus favors the Hasselblad lens as it blurs the background more as you can see in this crop.
It is clear in the crop that the Hasselblad is focused on the flower closer to the camera.



Also the lighting has changed between the shots and the out of focus background in the Hasselblad shot is more in the shade and less contrasty while
in the Nikon shot it is in the sun and more contrasty and lighter. Shade will always look softer and favor bokeh.



As far as sharpness goes the 105mm DC is an older lens and not really designed for the newer generation cameras.
Here is the difference between the older 105 DC and the 85mm 1.4G


Nikon 105mm DC


Nikon 85mm 1.4G

The newer 85mm 1.4G has nicer Bokeh and detail compared to the 105 DC

here is a good example of the dimensional quality of the 85mm 1.4 and it's smooth bokeh.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/d_robert/8519631830/in/pool-nikkor85g/

and this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankvilsack/8030971453/in/pool-nikkor85g/]]http://www.flickr.com/photos/frankvilsack/8030971453/in/pool-nikkor85g/

even stopped down 2 stops it's still smooth thanks to the 9 blade iris
http:[email protected]/8084214646/in/pool-nikkor85g/

That said the Fujinon  / Hassy 150mm is a very nice lens. It's also better with film or a full frame MF sensor where you see more of it's bokeh potential.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 01:59:05 AM by FredBGG »
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jerome_m

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #304 on: April 17, 2013, 01:23:38 AM »

Yes, there is a minute difference in focus between the two cameras, as is to be expected when one photographies a real life subject as this one. There is also a little difference in size, as is to be expected from the focal lengths.

Is this all what you have noticed from the pictures? Here a crop (clic the picture to see it bigger):


105f4.0-150f5.6 by jerome_Munich
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #305 on: April 17, 2013, 01:39:03 AM »

Yes, there is a minute difference in focus between the two cameras, as is to be expected when one photographies a real life subject as this one. There is also a little difference in size, as is to be expected from the focal lengths.

Is this all what you have noticed from the pictures? Here a crop (clic the picture to see it bigger):


105f4.0-150f5.6 by jerome_Munich

Same difference in focusing distance.

Out of curiosity how did you process the Hasselblad images?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 01:46:39 AM by FredBGG »
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jerome_m

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #306 on: April 17, 2013, 03:05:36 AM »

Out of curiosity how did you process the Hasselblad images?

All images were processed identically with Apple Aperture. Had I used Phocus, the aberrations of the HC lenses would be automatically corrected. I wanted to avoid that.
The colors were matched by eye, the automatic WB on the D800 gave much cooler results.
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #307 on: April 17, 2013, 03:26:02 PM »

All images were processed identically with Apple Aperture. Had I used Phocus, the aberrations of the HC lenses would be automatically corrected. I wanted to avoid that.
The colors were matched by eye, the automatic WB on the D800 gave much cooler results.

Hi jerome

The reason I asked is that I can see some color fringing on the 105 DC at the wider apertures.
Take a look at the latest Adobe Camera Raw. There is a new version of the color fringing correction tool.
It works really well for fast lenses that have purple or green fringing. This would help you get more out of your 105.

As for the HC 150 it is a very clean lens very minimal CA.
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jerome_m

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #308 on: April 17, 2013, 04:49:34 PM »

Hi jerome

The reason I asked is that I can see some color fringing on the 105 DC at the wider apertures.
Take a look at the latest Adobe Camera Raw. There is a new version of the color fringing correction tool.
It works really well for fast lenses that have purple or green fringing. This would help you get more out of your 105.

As for the HC 150 it is a very clean lens very minimal CA.

The reason the HC 150 exhibits minimal CA is that it is not used at the same aperture to produce the same depth of field. Even wide open, it is f/3.2 while the Nikon opens at f/2.0.

Thank you for the reminder about the new Adobe tools, which I had not known about. You are right that they will help with the 105 DC, which indeed suffers a lot from fringing, and I will check whether the fringing can be corrected very well. The example I posted was at f/4.0, at f/2.8 the 105DC is worse:


105f2.8-150f4.0 by jerome_Munich

« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 04:51:21 PM by jerome_m »
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FredBGG

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Re: DIGITAL Medium Format photography is almost as moribund???
« Reply #309 on: April 17, 2013, 06:10:48 PM »

The reason the HC 150 exhibits minimal CA is that it is not used at the same aperture to produce the same depth of field. Even wide open, it is f/3.2 while the Nikon opens at f/2.0.

That is part of it, but there are other issues too. At wider apertures bokeh and color correction in lenses is a balancing act.

There is some discussion about it in this Hasselblad PDF....

www.hasselbladusa.com/media/.../the_evolution_of_lenses.pdf

Interesting article.
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