Leica S2 vs. Hasselblaud H4D-40

[theguywitha645d]

The S2 welded to the MFDB. You cannot upgrade your sensor when a new one arrives. Phase One offers a nice upgrade path. Hasselblad probably does too.

The upgrade path is a bit of a red herring,although the companies are really happy that consumers feel they need to keep buying products.

Upgrade is simply selling an old back/camera for a new one. You can do that with an S2. I doubt anyone has any information showing the Phase flavor is actually cheaper.

Also, why do you need to upgrade? A 40mp mf sensor gives stunning quality. Some folks like to chase technical Image quality, but many photographers do not. The only thing an 80mp back is going to do for me is too fill up my hard drive faster.

[theguywitha645d]

Just to add a little to this conversation, but when looking for my camera, I found the separate back a limitation. An integrated system can have far fewer compromises. I spend more time using my camera than trading them in, so functionality is far more important.

[Erick Boileau]

I found the separate back a limitation

to clean the sensor nothing is better and for landscape photography it is important

[theguywitha645d]

to clean the sensor nothing is better and for landscape photography it is important

And integrated body has a much better chance of preventing the sensor from getting dirty in the first place. I don't have the dust problems with my Pentax as I do with my Phase...

There is nothing inherently better in an integrated body or an open system. They are both a series of compromises.

[fotometria gr]

And integrated body has a much better chance of preventing the sensor from getting dirty in the first place. I don't have the dust problems with my Pentax as I do with my Phase...

There is nothing inherently better in an integrated body or an open system. They are both a series of compromises.

Nothing serious to blame on an open system. Insane upgrade/expand cost and restriction to use film/more than one backs are major drawbacks of all integrated systems. System modularity is a traditional value of MF. Regards, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr

[theguywitha645d]

Nothing serious to blame on an open system. Insane upgrade/expand cost and restriction to use film/more than one backs are major drawbacks of all integrated systems. System modularity is a traditional value of MF. Regards, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr

Really? You mean like traditional MF systems like the Pentax 645, Pentax 67, Mamiya TLRs, Mamiya 6 and 7 Rangefinders, Rollie TLRs, Fuji rangefinders, etc. None of which are open. Besides, for my 645D, I can buy a very cheap film body if I need to use film. And then I would have two camera systems rather than one which did two things. Mamiya/Phase "open systems" do not take film backs anymore.

And as far as "insane" upgrade costs, if upgrades are even really needed, there is no proof that an open system is cheaper. I am already ahead of the game by buying a Pentax 645D--an "open system" would have cost me another $7,000 and then another $20,000 grand to upgrade to a touch screen if such things were needed. Very economical.

If you like an open system, that is fine. But I think we can stick to some facts for the OP rather than invent stuff.

[fotometria gr]

Really? You mean like traditional MF systems like the Pentax 645, Pentax 67, Mamiya TLRs, Mamiya 6 and 7 Rangefinders, Rollie TLRs, Fuji rangefinders, etc. None of which are open. Besides, for my 645D, I can buy a very cheap film body if I need to use film. And then I would have two camera systems rather than one which did two things. Mamiya/Phase "open systems" do not take film backs anymore.

And as far as "insane" upgrade costs, if upgrades are even really needed, there is no proof that an open system is cheaper. I am already ahead of the game by buying a Pentax 645D--an "open system" would have cost me another $7,000 and then another $20,000 grand to upgrade to a touch screen if such things were needed. Very economical.

If you like an open system, that is fine. But I think we can stick to some facts for the OP rather than invent stuff.

1.No! I mean like Hass V, Rollei 6000, HY6, SL66, Bronica ETRS, SQA, GS, Mamiya RB, RZ, 645, Contax 645, ...you name it, more than 80% of the market!
 My Contax 645 system consists of 3 bodies, all viewfinders, screens, ext. rings, 5 backs, 7 inserts (2 suction), all 8 dedicated lenses but the 350, 4 more via an adapter and an Imacon 528c multishot 4x and microstep 16x DB. The whole system has cost me about 14000, that is....for 3xC645 with 11 Zeiss and an Arsat 30 f/e with 4X and 16X! ....Q.E.D. If I was to buy the same system in closed Hass H with MS (H3D39MS), I would need more than 50000 more in the S/H market (that to me is insane) and with lesser glass and no film! The only other solution was the open Mamiya 645 but at similar cost with lesser (dedicated) glass and no WL finder, an alternative would also be Hass V but without AF. By the way Mamiya doesn't make the FB anymore for no other reason than cost. They just don't have enough customers for FBs to justify production. Cheers Theodoros www.fotometria.gr
 P.S.Mind you that the original kit, the second body and 2 more lenses were bought new (NOS) starting 5 years ago.
 

[theguywitha645d]

1.No! I mean like Hass V, Rollei 6000, HY6, SL66, Bronica ETRS, SQA, GS, Mamiya RB, RZ, 645, Contax 645, ..

So, traditionally, MF cameras came in both open and closed systems. So professionals used both types of systems quite well.

You still have not proven your point that open systems are more cost effective than closed ones. All you have shown it was a good choice for you. I have work with a number of closed systems and it worked out to be very cost effective for me. So in regards to the costs of upgrades and such of the H4D-40 over the S2, there is nothing we can really say.

[JV]

If I was to buy the same system in closed Hass H with MS (H3D39MS), I would need more than 50000 more in the S/H market (that to me is insane) and with lesser glass and no film!

What is your point? If you were to purchase the so-called open Phase One system it would even cost you 20-30% more!!!

[fotometria gr]

So, traditionally, MF cameras came in both open and closed systems. So professionals used both types of systems quite well.

You still have not proven your point that open systems are more cost effective than closed ones. All you have shown it was a good choice for you. I have work with a number of closed systems and it worked out to be very cost effective for me. So in regards to the costs of upgrades and such of the H4D-40 over the S2, there is nothing we can really say.

But it has been answered! The same choice can be easily done today and similar ones from Mamiya or Hass V are always availiable at similar cost! The same applies to DBs! Regards, Theodoros.

[fotometria gr]

What is your point? If you were to purchase the so-called open Phase One system it would even cost you 20-30% more!!!

If it was the Mamiya/Aptus 7 combination it would be 40% less! Or it could be the Mamiya with a Sinarback 75LV at a similar cost (to the Aptus 7)! My point is simply that in case of future upgrade, I could (can) replace the camera only, or only the back and save some 10ths of thousands than trying to upgrade a devaluated big SLR (add that to the 40% already saved)! But if I was starting today, I would make the same choice as I did five years ago anyway! Regards, Theodoros www.fotometria.gr