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Author Topic: Moire  (Read 5128 times)

Yanick Dery

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Moire
« on: April 07, 2011, 09:01:57 PM »

I am thinking to go MF for LONG time, but when I tested it (p45) couple of years ago, I 've got a huge problem with moire. Since then, I am sure the software has evolve but I am still very skeptical about the process of the correction, and the final result.

I would love to see some before and after corrections in different situations with the technical process.

Thanks!

Dick Roadnight

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Re: Moire
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2011, 03:31:48 AM »

I am thinking to go MF for LONG time, but when I tested it (p45) couple of years ago, I 've got a huge problem with moire. Since then, I am sure the software has evolve but I am still very skeptical about the process of the correction, and the final result.

I would love to see some before and after corrections in different situations with the technical process.

Thanks!

See http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=29023.0 or search phocus moire.

My reply and sample is post 31.

Moire is less of a problem with high-res backs, but the phocus correction works with any Hasselblad back.

« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 03:34:19 AM by Dick Roadnight »
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Yanick Dery

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Re: Moire
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2011, 07:36:42 AM »

Hi Dick,

I refer to this post because I am expecting better result than this.

I woul love to see examples of moire like this on a fabric that contain different colors.

In that case, it is easy to see on the arm the color layer to correct the color.

Hi, David and all

I think this is a good example: HD311-50, 50-110mm @70, 50 asa, unscaled crop (not down-ressed), flash, 1/258 @f8.

Image with no correction


Image with Moire correction on, level 5


Is Lycra one of the worst materials for Moiré?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 07:38:13 AM by Yanick Dery »
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Dustbak

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Re: Moire
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 08:19:12 AM »

Yanick,

I do a lot of fabric. Often stills for which I use multishot which has no problem with moire but I also do lookbook shoots quite regularly. With my CF39 I often encountered moire of all sorts. This was partly dealt by with the moire filter in Phocus but often I still had to do some manual labor to get rid of it.

After I got the 60, I still had moire sometimes but significantly less! The moire I got with the 60 was effectively dealt with by the moire filter always (sofar). I had the pleasure toying around with a Leaf12 which showed even less.

I think I still have the raws of my last lookbook shoot where I had some moire. I can dig up these files and provide you with some raw examples to see for yourself if you like. In that case contact me of forum.
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yaya

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Re: Moire
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 01:02:51 PM »

Capture One's moire tool (used as a brush, no effect on neighbouring subject/ colours)



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HarperPhotos

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Re: Moire
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 01:30:20 PM »

Hi Yanick,

I got so feed up with moire on my Aptus 75 even using Caprock anti-moire filters that I bought a Nikon D3X and I don’t have to worry about this problem. It makes my blood boil that these MFB makers don’t have some sort of moire filter attachment which could fit on the front of there backs to elevate this problem.

Cheers

Simon
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Simon Harper
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jimgolden

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Re: Moire
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 02:20:54 PM »

i agree with harper above, I use capture with my 5D2 for moire heavy crap...
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baudolino

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Re: Moire
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 02:29:11 PM »

Hi Yanick,

I use a 33Mpix back (Sinar e75LV) and do not experience a lot of moire, except with some artificial fabrics where I get it occasionally (e.g. with hi-tech sails of modern yachts; never with cloth sails of traditional yachts). Other than that, it is much much better in this regard than the Leica M9 which I also use. The Sinar dedicated raw processor (Captureshop) seems effective at eliminating moire automatically for fine structures, such as branches, aerials, reeds etc.

Regards, Martin
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fredjeang

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Re: Moire
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 06:04:09 PM »


Is Lycra one of the worst materials for Moiré?

What happens to you all with moire? Let's moiré! it is psychedelic and fun. Your bathing suit is more electric that way. That's why the MF manufacturers have given to us this acid touch. Ungrateful you are!

Seriously, Lycra is a very moiré texture but not only that.
Any geometric tighten pattern a little distortionned, like you see in some contemporary paintings or photographs is producing bad moiré. Or ventilation grids under certain angle etc...
I had vibrating moire on video footage, (think it's call strobing, correct me if I'm wrong) very psy and interesting indeed...while filming paintings made of contrasted pattern, also on ventilation devices like with MF stills.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 06:19:13 PM by fredjeang »
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HarperPhotos

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Re: Moire
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 07:53:23 PM »

Hi,

I’ve found blue denim jeans to be a major problem this colour moire and lycra. The first shoot I use my new Leaf Aptus 75 was shooting the New Zealand All Black rugby team. There uniform if you are not familiar with the team is black lycre, they all lit up like Christmas trees with colour moire. I was not a happy photographer and at the time I thought I have just $45,000 NZ dollars on a dog.

Simon
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Simon Harper
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Yanick Dery

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Re: Moire
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 09:30:24 PM »

Hi,

I’ve found blue denim jeans to be a major problem this colour moire and lycra. The first shoot I use my new Leaf Aptus 75 was shooting the New Zealand All Black rugby team. There uniform if you are not familiar with the team is black lycre, they all lit up like Christmas trees with colour moire. I was not a happy photographer and at the time I thought I have just $45,000 NZ dollars on a dog.

Simon


And how was the final result? Did you have to work the files a lot to get rid of the moire...

Would love to see it.

photo570

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Re: Moire
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 10:20:35 PM »

Simon, I also have an Aptus, a II5, would be interested in chatting as I am also in Auckland. Give me a call, 3543520. 0274977499.

Cheers,
Jason.
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HarperPhotos

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Re: Moire
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 10:51:54 PM »

Hi Yanick,

It was about 5 years ago when I got this back. If I remember rightly I had to mask around each player and then I used a soft wear program called Camera Bits Moire Eraser. It was very time consuming and I had to carry the cost for all the time wasted if fixing this problem. The rep in Australia who I bought the back from certainly got a ear full from me. This shoot is the reason why I stared making inquiries into a solution and can across the Caprock Anti Moire filter system which to date is still the best way to reduce moire in camera. The MFB makers (who are fixated on resolution) will say that you will lose some resolution, which is true but only slight and all you need to do is add some more sharpening.

Simon
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Simon Harper
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HarperPhotos

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Re: Moire
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2011, 11:14:06 PM »

Hi Yanick,

Just had a look at your website, very nice work. Personally I’m not going to put any more of my money into medium format. This year I have purchased 14-24mm F2.8G, 24mm PC F4.0G, 35mm F1.4G, 50mm F1.4G and 85mm 1.4G lenses to go with my Nikon D3X. I believe the next generation of Nikon and Canon’s are going to give the MFB makers are big kick in the ass. Can’t wait!

Simon
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Simon Harper
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D_Clear

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Re: Moire
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2011, 11:16:54 PM »

It's amusing that photographers with the level of experience described here are either; puzzled that the appearance of moire in a DB fabric shot appears in the first place, or that it's still viewed as a difficult thing to remove, or worse, viewed as 'for the money this camera should never have moire', which is an eye-roller.... Take this crap Ferrari back, it won't do offroad...

We all know there are design limitations, physics limitations and specialization decisions made on every piece of photo gear, in the case of MF it's meant to default to ultimate image quality at the increased chance of moire. If you want what a good MF does, your no-buffered exposure will mean some degree of moire as a consequence of that build - which we are all hopefully aware of by now.

Personally I'd rather have the sometime moire challenge and enjoy the many benefits that MF brings to my particular type of work and process, it's no contest for me.

Thankfully a simple Lab conversion and total moire correction takes minutes or less. As well there are other techniques and software which can take care of the problem to a greater or lesser extent.

Yanick if I were you I'd be more concerned with the potential for increased retouching time overall, the difference in skin resolution alone may make you think twice, I guess it all depends on whether you want to really have best possible fashion images, or 'good enough' fashion images. Here is an early Christmas present, go buy 'The Canyon Conundrum' and read the chapter on moire.

Personally I believe that when we settle on good enough images in any way you want to interpret that remark, that's when we have plateaued, or given up.

DC
www.dermotcleary.com




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Yanick Dery

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Re: Moire
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2011, 11:24:20 PM »

I believe the next generation of Nikon and Canon’s are going to give the MFB makers are big kick in the ass. Can’t wait!

Simon

I agree... I can't wait too!

I am happy to see the real feedback of users and not just MF marketers.

Thanks everyone for the information. I will wait to see the next generation of Canon. I am not in a rush to trash any money soon on MF if I am not 100% sure of what I am doing.

HarperPhotos

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Re: Moire
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2011, 11:31:29 PM »

Yanich,

Good man you are thinking with you head and not your heart.

All the best

Simon
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Simon Harper
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fredjeang

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Re: Moire
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2011, 03:04:31 AM »

For stills you are safe with 35mm. If you are going to dive into video as well, Canon is not moiré free and will haunt again your nightmares.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 03:12:44 AM by fredjeang »
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yaya

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Re: Moire
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2011, 04:49:20 AM »

I am happy to see the real feedback of users and not just MF marketers.

Thought you've asked for before/ after samples?
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Dick Roadnight

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Moire/monitor
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2011, 06:49:25 AM »

When we talk of moire, we normally mean a coloured interference pattern caused by sensor pitch vs subject texture frequency, or perhaps with a printer, but in the 7061 frontal shot of:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=28709.msg435050#msg435050,

If you suck it into Photoshop, at 66.6% you get a very pronounced interference pattern in the knickers... this is more visible on the Eizo, but also clearly visible on the Mac Book Pro. ...but at 100% you can clearly see every stitch!

I think that this is a good illustration of how gizmos like any-ratio scaling can really screw up you image!

Is there something technical about he lower abdomen of young ladies that causes this effect?

See screen-grab attached.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 09:00:56 AM by Dick Roadnight »
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