How to choose a digital MF?

[Yoram from Berlin]

I know, I hate these kinds of questions on any kind of camera forum... and just because it's more high-end doesn't make the question any less open-ended. I've been up and down this forum, but it's a LOT of information...

I am unhappy with the images I'm getting from my Canon 1Ds Mk III, even with my 85mm L ii. I shoot in a studio with theater lights as well as ProFoto strobes. It has been suggested to me to try one of the bigger digital MFs... and I don't know where to start.

Any pointers? I'm in LA for the next two weeks, so anything is available for testing. The new Mamiya seems pretty intuitive. I'd prefer not to shoot tethered, so a back with a big display and sensible controls would be good.

Thoughts? Comments? Fanboy raves?

Some recent images as a style reference:

[jduncan]

I know, I hate these kinds of questions on any kind of camera forum... and just because it's more high-end doesn't make the question any less open-ended. I've been up and down this forum, but it's a LOT of information...

I am unhappy with the images I'm getting from my Canon 1Ds Mk III, even with my 85mm L ii. I shoot in a studio with theater lights as well as ProFoto strobes. It has been suggested to me to try one of the bigger digital MFs... and I don't know where to start.

Any pointers? I'm in LA for the next two weeks, so anything is available for testing. The new Mamiya seems pretty intuitive. I'd prefer not to shoot tethered, so a back with a big display and sensible controls would be good.

Thoughts? Comments? Fanboy raves?

Some recent images as a style reference:

I really like your reference shoots.

Some notes that, in my opinion,  may help others to do more informed suggestions:
1.  Do you need weather sealing?
2. Why are you unhappy with the Canon 1Ds Mk III? The unhappiness is critical or you can wait after Photokina? Have you tested the Nikon D3x?
3. What about your budget?  
4. Do you shoot in location? do you need perspective correction or GPS? or any thing special ?

[dseelig]

It seems we need more info what lenses are most important to you? I have shot rollie mamiya and contax. The camera I still have is contax yes I know dead system bodies are cheap lenses also cheap and plentiful on the used market. Most importantly the camera works and feels good.

[Frank Doorhof]

One thing you have to remember is that mf works best at iso50-100.
So with strobes it will outperform the dslr, however without strobes I am using my dslr as soon as I need iso400 or up.

Personally I love the mf look and feel and think it's preferable to a dslr.
I would advise however to go as full frame as possible, so for example a leaf aptusII7 or 5.

Csmerawise I use the phaseoneDF which I like, but for most studio work I use the Mamiya rz67proII.

[Yoram from Berlin]

I shoot with theatrical lighting as well as strobes, my preference being consistent (theater) light... which makes the ISO issue a big deal to consider.

I want to print very large, like Renaissance paintings, and I am having a hard time getting my SLR files big enough while maintaining the sharpness in certain areas. The best Canon lenses don't seem to help, though I haven't tried any of the Leica lenses yet.

Weather sealing or GPS or other location issues are not an issue at this time. It's really about studio work. I will continue to shoot with the Canon for location work, a camera I quite like except for this bigger project... which is a direction I will be doing more work toward.

[Yoram from Berlin]

...oh, and let's just assume my budget is whatever I want. Without sounding flip, I shoot in major cities where all systems can be rented with a few days notice, and I could buy a system if that struck me as money well spent.

[marat]

Sounds to me like the Hasselblad H3DII or H4D system would be a good choice. I am a digital tech trainer and do equipment consulting, specializing in MFD. Mostly Phase backs, but a couple of Blad backs and a Leaf 54s. Big screen, intuitive, fast control for viewing and reviewing, approval system on back, and with the 31mp or 39mp, or don't hesitate about 50mp, if you need the extreme crop or crazy size / bragging rights, the lenses are good for it, you will see a HUGE difference in the rendering, detail, etc. Personally, I find the Phase backs a PITA if you don't want to tether. Phase has many great things going for it, but back interface isn't one of them.

I have most of the MF camera systems, backs, and lenses here to train and test with, a part of our rentals and tech packages, and for your points, that is my vote. Also, gives you the fastest, easiest way to a natural look, and the digital lens profiles are very good, without ever looking overcooked. If you want to shoot Leaf, the best part of that workflow is instant wireless, zoomable to 100% reviews, by multiple parties, with any images any time, in current session, by iphone and ipod touch running OS3 or later. Great for stylists, makeup and hair, and of course AD's and clients. Check out a video we did about it on our capturetek site. If you ever come to Toronto, we can set up a studio session, where you can test and compare all the gear. We have a really nice rental studio here as well. Give me a call or email with any questions.

Best,

Mir Lada

[Wayne Fox]

...oh, and let's just assume my budget is whatever I want. Without sounding flip, I shoot in major cities where all systems can be rented with a few days notice, and I could buy a system if that struck me as money well spent.

Sounds like you've answered your own question ...  best thing to do is rent them and try them.  Most on this forum will recommend an H4 system or a Mamiya/PhaseOne system.  Try them both .. I think you will like the files from either so it's more about the system itself. Personally I like the Mamiya/Phase system, but both produce outstanding files.    Ergonomics and interface between the two is different  ... sort of like how a canon is different than a nikon.

[ondebanks]

Personally I like the Mamiya/Phase system, ...

Wayne, in that case, it looks like you're going to have to change your thumbnail portrait - that's a Hassy H you're wielding there, is it not?

[michele]

I too suggest you renting all the systems you can find. The new sensors, like the Phase P40+ and the hasselblad 40mega seem very good up to 400 iso. Pentax 645D sounds very very good. For what metters, the H system uses a very well designed mirror-up mode. You simply move up the mirror with 1 button, then you can shoot continuosly just with the shutter, if you can live without looking in the viewfinder wile shooting you can avoid a lot of vibrations issues...

[Graham Mitchell]

Which lenses do you need?
Do you need fast flash sync?
What are your viewfinder preferences?
Do you need fast shutter speeds?
Do you need very long exposure times?
What ISO range do you need?
How many MP minimum?
Do you need (fast) AF?
Do you need a local rental house to stock the same gear?
etc

No one camera does it all.

[Yoram from Berlin]

Which lenses do you need?
Do you need fast flash sync?
What are your viewfinder preferences?
Do you need fast shutter speeds?
Do you need very long exposure times?
What ISO range do you need?
How many MP minimum?
Do you need (fast) AF?
Do you need a local rental house to stock the same gear?
etc

No one camera does it all.

Good questions.

On a 35mm, I shoot 80 - 85mm as a preferred length, never longer, sometimes wider.

I like high ISO, on the Canon I shoot 800... but if the native state of a digital back is ISO 25, that makes it a two stop delta... so would that be ISO 200 on a digital back? I'm sure they're not fully analogous, these technologies never are.

I don't know about MP, but I need bigger sharper prints. I mean BIG, like 1.5m x 2m and bigger

No, super fast AF is not mission-critical, unless I have to shoot really wide open... at f/2.8 I need to focus and recompose every frame, that would be a headache.

I like to shoot around 1/200th of a sec, or 250th. The 1/125th limits on some of the dMF focal plane shutters has me worried.

I live in Berlin, we have a couple of well-stocked gear houses. The big brands are all there.

I am getting a lession in Phase One with P30+ back and 80mm LS lens on Saturday, and will work with it over the weekend. I am shooting next Tuesday, I may rent it for the shoot and use it along with my Canons.

[Graham Mitchell]

I like high ISO, on the Canon I shoot 800... but if the native state of a digital back is ISO 25, that makes it a two stop delta... so would that be ISO 200 on a digital back? I'm sure they're not fully analogous, these technologies never are.

If you like shooting at ISO 800 on the Canon, you'll need ISO 800 on the digital back too.

[BenNorton]

The Phase One DF body with Schneider/Phase lenses is a nice open platform body. Leaf doesn't seem to have had a mention yet so i'll chime in with the Aptus II8. You can see a good impartial review here: http://tr.anp.se/track?t=c&mid=822728&uid=224269238&&&http://www.bjp-online.com/british-journal-of-photography/test/1726948/all

[ondebanks]

If you like shooting at ISO 800 on the Canon, you'll need ISO 800 on the digital back too.

...Graham's right, and what's more, no MF back is going to come close to your 1dsMkIII for ISO 800 shadow detail. They simply have too much readnoise. If you opt for one of the Sensor+ Phase backs you reduce the noise gap, but at the expense of quartering the pixel count, so you end up back below the pixel count on your Canon.

BTW, ISO 200 is a 3 stop delta above base ISO, not 2, if you start with native ISO 25.