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Author Topic: 7D Hands on  (Read 11908 times)

K.C.

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7D Hands on
« on: September 01, 2009, 03:48:54 AM »

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Roger Calixto

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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2009, 04:40:15 AM »

A few things I found surprising. APS-C sensor cameras from Canon usually don't have a single digit name, like 7D (and why skip 6?).

The features all sound great though, especially the digital level. The modifications to the focus system also sound great... but I expected to pay more for it. $1,699 body only?

{}
KT
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cmi

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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2009, 05:03:03 AM »

Quote from: kingtutt
...why skip 6?...

I'd say because it doesn't sound good. As if they HAVE to choose the next number...
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K.C.

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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2009, 05:16:56 AM »

Canon Europe has the release up now.

http://tinyurl.com/kucsyw
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dreed

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2009, 06:59:04 AM »

On dpreview, they list:

"You can optionally combine self-timer with mirror lockup (to reduce mirror induced vibration) via C.Fn III-6."

... I'm curious how the likes of MR will receive this option. It sounds like Canon have gone to some length to make it easy to do mirror lockup.

FWIW, Rob Gilbraith discusses it here:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_pag...d=7-10042-10239
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Chris Pollock

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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2009, 08:28:39 AM »

It looks like it has a lot of good features, but putting nearly 18 megapixels in an APS-C sensor looks like a mistake. The same pixel density on a full-frame sensor would give you over 45 megapixels! I seriously doubt that many lenses are going to be able to match that resolution under realistic conditions. Even my 8 megapixel 20D was limited by some lenses, like the 10-22mm F3.5-4.5.

Hopefully the 5D Mark III will get the new features that were introduced in the 7D. I just hope that Canon focus on improving noise and dynamic range, instead of just adding more pixels.
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Pelao

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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2009, 03:14:37 PM »

Quote
Hopefully the 5D Mark III will get the new features that were introduced in the 7D.

I share your hopes, though I suppose it's reasonably obvious that this will come to pass. In fact, given that Nikon may well announce a higher resolution successor to the D700, we may see a 5D3 before the end of 2010.

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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2009, 04:09:25 PM »

Quote from: Chris Pollock
It looks like it has a lot of good features, but putting nearly 18 megapixels in an APS-C sensor looks like a mistake. The same pixel density on a full-frame sensor would give you over 45 megapixels! I seriously doubt that many lenses are going to be able to match that resolution under realistic conditions. Even my 8 megapixel 20D was limited by some lenses, like the 10-22mm F3.5-4.5.

Hopefully the 5D Mark III will get the new features that were introduced in the 7D. I just hope that Canon focus on improving noise and dynamic range, instead of just adding more pixels.

I'm not sure where Gabor got his numbers but  ...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=32880471
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Christopher

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« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 05:49:23 AM »

Quote from: DarkPenguin
I'm not sure where Gabor got his numbers but  ...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=32880471


The more I see from actual images there more i am impressed from Canon. I would not imagined that they could actually raise the Mp count and still work on all other things like DR and noise.

BernardLanguillier

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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 06:27:45 AM »

Quote from: Christopher
The more I see from actual images there more i am impressed from Canon. I would not imagined that they could actually raise the Mp count and still work on all other things like DR and noise.

It seems they did a good job on this one again. On the other hand the increase from 15 to 18MP is fact very small, small enough to be irrelevant in most practical applications.

Cheers,
Bernard
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EdRosch

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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 06:46:53 AM »

Quote from: kingtutt
A few things I found surprising. APS-C sensor cameras from Canon usually don't have a single digit name, like 7D (and why skip 6?).

The features all sound great though, especially the digital level. The modifications to the focus system also sound great... but I expected to pay more for it. $1,699 body only?

{}
KT

My best guess would be that 7 is about half way between 5 and 10 which seems to be about where this is positioned.  I'd bet that if they introduce a model above the 5 and below the 1 in features, it would be the 3D.  The new AF system plus better sealing in a FF would get me interested for sure.
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ChrisJR

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 08:10:29 AM »

This looks like the perfect camera for our needs. I'm primarily a wedding photographer now and have my wife as an assistant. I use 1d3's but they're too heavy for her and because she only shoots the occasional photo something like the 5d2 is a bit overkill.

We both love the features of the current Nikon's but absolutely hate the ergonomics. This could be the perfect solution for her main and another backup for me. Really excited to see what the 1d4's will be like.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 08:11:04 AM by ChrisJR »
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KevinA

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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2009, 05:25:25 AM »

Quote from: K.C.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DA.HTM

The most interesting thing about the 7D will be the 1DsmkIII replacement. Clearly all the complaints about the 1D system look to of been tackled with this 7D, so those plus FF and other innovations for the top of the line looks like it could be an expensive year for me...... I hope.

Kevin.
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Kevin.

JohnKoerner

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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2009, 08:41:40 AM »

Damn.

The 7D looks like the camera I wish my 50D was.

At the end of 2007, and for over a year, I really wanted to get a nice camera (at a decent price) and was torn between the 40D versus the Nikon D300. For the longest while I could not make up my mind between the two, but when the 50D upgrade to the Canon came out at the end of 2008, I finally made my purchase decision (and remain very happy with it), but yet I still rubbed my chin a bit over some of the solid and superior qualitiative features found in the Nikon D300.

Well, it looks like the 7D combines the best elements of each camera, from its features to its build quality ... and then moves on to trump both of them on every level ... all within the same essential price range.

Which means I guess I will be giving my 50D to my girlfriend (who's becoming fascinated with photography also), while I get the 7D and finally have the perfect camera for my needs  

Jack

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Ray

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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2009, 08:57:16 AM »

Quote from: JohnKoerner
Damn.

The 7D looks like the camera I wish my 50D was.

LOL! Just like the 50D looked like the camera I wished my 40D was. I actually bought the 50D, despite having recently bought the 40D, because it had a micro-autofocus adjustment and I was having trouble with my 17-55 EF-S lens focussing accurately with the 40D. A high resolution LCD screen, plus a few other minor considerations such as higher resolution were also considerations.

The 7D is another incremental improvement which Canon is famous for. It's a clever marketing strategy to get people to buy more cameras than they need. I'm now in a quandary. The 5D2 or the 7D??
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JohnKoerner

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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2009, 09:53:54 AM »

Quote from: Ray
LOL! Just like the 50D looked like the camera I wished my 40D was. I actually bought the 50D, despite having recently bought the 40D, because it had a micro-autofocus adjustment and I was having trouble with my 17-55 EF-S lens focussing accurately with the 40D. A high resolution LCD screen, plus a few other minor considerations such as higher resolution were also considerations.

LOL back atcha  




Quote from: Ray
The 7D is another incremental improvement which Canon is famous for. It's a clever marketing strategy to get people to buy more cameras than they need.

This is true, but at least in my case I was looking to purchase my girlfriend another 50D anyway, so we could both enjoy our little excursions together, equally, and so the decision to purchase another camera was already a given. I am just glad that I will be able to get exactly the kind of camera I wanted, with a true feeling that it has everything I want, and lacks nothing, for my purposes.




Quote from: Ray
I'm now in a quandary. The 5D2 or the 7D??

I was thinking the same thing. For me, even if the cameras were the same price, I would buy the 7D over the 5D MkII, as the 1.6 crop extends my macro lens (which is good), will extend the 600mm lens I am saving for (which is also good), while the 5D MkII would not. Also, from the specs, the 7D is a sturdier camera, with better weather sealing and a faster frame rate than the 5DMkII, so for nature photography all "reasons to buy a camera" seem to be with the 7D in my opinion.

If I were shooting portrait or landscape, maybe my opinion would differ, but then again maybe not.

Jack


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« Last Edit: September 03, 2009, 09:54:36 AM by JohnKoerner »
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Wayne Fox

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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2009, 07:53:50 PM »

Quote from: Christopher
The more I see from actual images there more i am impressed from Canon. I would not imagined that they could actually raise the Mp count and still work on all other things like DR and noise.


From everything I've read, increasing pixel count is a way to improve noise performance ... isn't that a major factor in improving dynamic range?  Even if you surpass the ability of the lens, so what?  shouldn't the lens itself be the limiting factor, not the sensor?  Increasing resolution doesn't make that worse ... once you hit the limit you hit the limit.  Until you hit that limit it seems sharpness and quality are perhaps just an artificial perception ... the sensor has placed an artificial limit.

I guess what I'm trying to rationalize in my own mind are two points ... passing the limit of the lens isn't necessarily a negative thing, and sensor density is about more than just resolution.



Wayne Fox

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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2009, 08:01:21 PM »

Quote from: Ray
The 7D is another incremental improvement which Canon is famous for.

Isn't that more a statement about where we are in the evolvement of digital capture than anything else?  So far I see lots of ideas about the next big thing (ex. computational photography), but until that shows up we many not have much left but incremental changes.

Chris Pollock

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« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2009, 12:33:13 AM »

Quote from: Wayne Fox
From everything I've read, increasing pixel count is a way to improve noise performance ... isn't that a major factor in improving dynamic range?  Even if you surpass the ability of the lens, so what?  shouldn't the lens itself be the limiting factor, not the sensor?  Increasing resolution doesn't make that worse ... once you hit the limit you hit the limit.  Until you hit that limit it seems sharpness and quality are perhaps just an artificial perception ... the sensor has placed an artificial limit.
All other things being equal, reducing the size of the pixels makes per-pixel noise worse, and also tends to reduce dynamic range. It's simple physics - a smaller pixel collects less light, and therefore provides a weaker signal, which tends to result in a lower signal to noise ratio.

You're right that increasing the sensor resolution past the lens resolution won't make the resolution worse, but it means that the camera's files become larger (and take longer to process) without any real increase in information content. I am aware that there are benefits to be had from oversampling, but I suspect that 18 megapixels on an APS-C is well into diminishing returns territory. It would have been better to leave the resolution the same, and improve the other parameters.

The last APS-C camera that I used was the 20D, which as I mentioned was already limited by some lenses. What kind of results are 50D users getting? Are many lenses able to outresolve the sensor across the frame? I expect that the better primes could, but what about zooms?
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DarkPenguin

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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2009, 12:47:42 AM »

Quote from: Chris Pollock
All other things being equal, reducing the size of the pixels makes per-pixel noise worse, and also tends to reduce dynamic range. It's simple physics - a smaller pixel collects less light, and therefore provides a weaker signal, which tends to result in a lower signal to noise ratio.

You're right that increasing the sensor resolution past the lens resolution won't make the resolution worse, but it means that the camera's files become larger (and take longer to process) without any real increase in information content. I am aware that there are benefits to be had from oversampling, but I suspect that 18 megapixels on an APS-C is well into diminishing returns territory. It would have been better to leave the resolution the same, and improve the other parameters.

The last APS-C camera that I used was the 20D, which as I mentioned was already limited by some lenses. What kind of results are 50D users getting? Are many lenses able to outresolve the sensor across the frame? I expect that the better primes could, but what about zooms?

I think it was bob atkins that checked some pretty cheap lenses against a 50D.  There were gains to be had even with low end glass.
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