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Author Topic: Sinarback eSprit 65 LV  (Read 13718 times)

henrikfoto

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Sinarback eSprit 65 LV
« on: July 08, 2009, 05:27:36 pm »

Has anyone tried this back yet?
I have tried to search for it, but haven´t  found one single test or user experience on the net.
Has nobody bought it??

Isn´t this a bit strange?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 07:15:39 pm by henrikfoto »
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bradleygibson

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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 07:25:50 pm »

Quote from: henrikfoto
Has anyone tried this back yet?
I have tried to search for it, but haven´t  found one single test or user experience on the net.
Has nobody bought it??

Isn´t this a bit strange?

I haven't been paying close attention but I don't recall it being released.  Is it shipping?
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 07:36:30 pm »

Quote from: bradleygibson
I haven't been paying close attention but I don't recall it being released.  Is it shipping?

It has been out for months, afaik.
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TMARK

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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2009, 12:19:19 pm »

Quote from: henrikfoto
Has anyone tried this back yet?
I have tried to search for it, but haven´t  found one single test or user experience on the net.
Has nobody bought it??

Isn´t this a bit strange?

I've never seen one, even at Fotocare, which is the big Sinar stocked rental house in NYC.  In fact, I've asked around and no one seems to have ever seen one this side of the Atlantic.  I think its a myth, like a unicorn or mermaid.  Looks great, from the specs anyway.
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bcooter

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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 01:09:22 pm »

Quote from: TMARK
I've never seen one, even at Fotocare, which is the big Sinar stocked rental house in NYC.  In fact, I've asked around and no one seems to have ever seen one this side of the Atlantic.  I think its a myth, like a unicorn or mermaid.  Looks great, from the specs anyway.


Nobody makes products as elegant as Sinar-Bron, no single company in the world market's, communicates, or sells as bad as Sinar-Bron, if it is Sinar-Bron, because every time I read something on them it's about Sinar AG, Ltd. Germany, owned or in partnership with Jenoptik, or something that makes absolutely no sense to the buyer.

Case in point, at the end of last year I was going to purchase ten's of thousands of dollars of the Broncolor HMIs and no dealer could give me any real information, including Fotocare because Sinar was closed for weeks and Fotocare probably knows more about Sinar than anyone.

The moment I heard the HY6/Rollei was part of Sinar you knew they both were doomed, because at least in the U.S. finding out information about both of those companies is just impossible.

You'd have to be a Sinar hobbyist, historian to keep up and that's nuts in good times.  In tough times it's suicide.

I've seen that M camera three times in dealers, sans digital back and not one sales person knew anything about it.   I've also seen three or 4 hy6's (with digital backs) and never with the batteries charged.

I know photographers that love Sinar products and few if any rushed out to buy them, because the information wasn't really there or they just didn't have the faith that the cameras would be around in the future.   You want to know why the HY6 failed.  Nobody bought it, including the Rollei/Sinar/Jenoptik junkies.  Now that the cameras sell for 1/2 price they might, but that is why F+H is boarded up.

In specialty camera equipment Sinar is not alone, because other than Hasselblad, all the specialty camera makers leave their buyers hanging or searching for information.  Can anybody clearly tell us what is the point of the Leaf Phase partnership?  I've read the press releases and I don't see anything in those announcements that would motivate anyone to buy anything.

I and other's keep reading that brand a is selling so well it's back ordered, or brand b will eventually be part of camera maker C and I just shake my head in confusion.

The marketing and samples of all of these cameras makes no sense because on one hand you have the dealers and reviewers shooting brick walls and trees showing how much better one new back is to the other, or on the flip side the manufacturers have over retouched, over cloned images that could have been shot will a cell phone, so all in all nothing really motivates the buyer.

None of this makes sense.   Today there are more photographers than ever testing, trying new techniques, re-inventing themselves and makers and dealers are shooting images that do not resonate with the buyers.  

Crazy.

BC

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ThierryH

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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 02:48:11 pm »

TMARK,

the Sinarback eSprit 65 is not a myth: it is available and sold since december 2008.

Best regards,
Thierry


Quote from: TMARK
I think its a myth, like a unicorn or mermaid.  Looks great, from the specs anyway.
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TMARK

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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 03:09:04 pm »

Quote from: ThierryH
TMARK,

the Sinarback eSprit 65 is not a myth: it is available and sold since december 2008.

Best regards,
Thierry

I know you are not with the company anymore, but do you know if any were sold in the States?  I've seen Sinar M cameras, which are cool, two Hy6 cameras, both 75's, but no 65.  

Thanks,

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ThierryH

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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 03:16:18 pm »

No, I honestly don't know, but I presume there are some.

Best regards,
Thierry

Quote from: TMARK
I know you are not with the company anymore, but do you know if any were sold in the States?  I've seen Sinar M cameras, which are cool, two Hy6 cameras, both 75's, but no 65.  

Thanks,
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henrikfoto

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 06:50:44 pm »

I just got the message from Sinar that this back is being sold. However, they have decided not to make it in the Sinar M mount even though Sinar M is their only medium-format system after theis Hy6 is a closed chapter.

I have invested more than 30.000 euros into this system (without the back!) and can´t even access Sinars newest back.
This system is completely closed to other backs (only has to use Sinarbacks). The Sinar M has the worlds best lenses and a better AF than any other MF-system, and they don´t even care to support their own costumers with access to their newest backs??????????????????

First I bought the Sinarback 54M. I was told that a few weeks later the portable SAM-module would be on the market.
This never happened, and a lot of people were left with a completely non-portable solution and lost a lot of money in the upgrade.

Next I put all my money in a close to complete Sinar M system and were told I will be able to use all coming Sinarbacks on this camera. And now they decide not to make the Sinar m adapter for this back???  How long can these people play with their faithful costumers like this????

Sinar wanted to keep me from telling my story, but here it is. Think a long time before investing your money....
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 06:52:46 pm by henrikfoto »
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Doug Peterson

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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2009, 09:33:14 pm »

Quote from: henrikfoto
I just got the message from Sinar that this back is being sold. However, they have decided not to make it in the Sinar M mount even though Sinar M is their only medium-format system after theis Hy6 is a closed chapter.

I have invested more than 30.000 euros into this system (without the back!) and can´t even access Sinars newest back.
This system is completely closed to other backs (only has to use Sinarbacks). The Sinar M has the worlds best lenses and a better AF than any other MF-system, and they don´t even care to support their own costumers with access to their newest backs??????????????????

First I bought the Sinarback 54M. I was told that a few weeks later the portable SAM-module would be on the market.
This never happened, and a lot of people were left with a completely non-portable solution and lost a lot of money in the upgrade.

Next I put all my money in a close to complete Sinar M system and were told I will be able to use all coming Sinarbacks on this camera. And now they decide not to make the Sinar m adapter for this back???  How long can these people play with their faithful costumers like this????

Sinar wanted to keep me from telling my story, but here it is. Think a long time before investing your money....

I'm sorry; I know this will sound self-serving but I am reading this at my neighboorhood bar and just can't believe I am understanding what is being said...

Sinar's back can't be used with Sinar's own MF M body??
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 09:34:47 pm by dougpetersonci »
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PeterA

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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 10:28:42 pm »

Quote from: dougpetersonci
I'm sorry; I know this will sound self-serving but I am reading this at my neighboorhood bar and just can't believe I am understanding what is being said...

Sinar's back can't be used with Sinar's own MF M body??

Doug that is a naughty statement!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 10:31:14 pm by PeterA »
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Caracalla

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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 11:44:22 pm »

Quote from: henrikfoto
I just got the message from Sinar that this back is being sold. However, they have decided not to make it in the Sinar M mount even though Sinar M is their only medium-format system after theis Hy6 is a closed chapter.

I have invested more than 30.000 euros into this system (without the back!) and can´t even access Sinars newest back.
This system is completely closed to other backs (only has to use Sinarbacks). The Sinar M has the worlds best lenses and a better AF than any other MF-system, and they don´t even care to support their own costumers with access to their newest backs??????????????????

First I bought the Sinarback 54M. I was told that a few weeks later the portable SAM-module would be on the market.
This never happened, and a lot of people were left with a completely non-portable solution and lost a lot of money in the upgrade.

Next I put all my money in a close to complete Sinar M system and were told I will be able to use all coming Sinarbacks on this camera. And now they decide not to make the Sinar m adapter for this back???  How long can these people play with their faithful costumers like this????

Sinar wanted to keep me from telling my story, but here it is. Think a long time before investing your money....

I use and love Sinar products but I'm sorry to hear that.

No excuses, Sinar is becoming or already is synonym for ignorance!!!


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mattlap2

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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2009, 12:51:47 am »

The M Camera and the Hy6 are examples of the 2 different recent histories of Sinar.

The M camera system was designed and developed while Hans Carl Koch still owned the company and the program was started at a time when backs were still tethered only.   Originally designed as a replacement for the Sinarcam 2, it was designed to serve as both a stand alone camera as well as a digital shutter for the view camera system.   It was in development long before the 54M & SAM, let alone the Emotion backs and Jenoptik.

This was at a time where Digital was changing fast and furious (not that it isn't now ...) and many parts of it were obsolete before it even hit the street.   Chips went from 24x36 to almost 645 and backs went from tethered only to portable hard drives to backs with CF cards.   The 35mm Prism and Nikon Adapters wouldn't cover the 22mp back and quickly disappeared.   The original grip was designed to power the camera, a back, and basically a mini computer in the SAM.   Again no longer needed when the Emotion had its own battery.

It was technically well designed and does some things brilliantly.   But it was also very cost prohibitive for the new reality of un-tethered digital.   The perfect tool for the photographer who needed to shoot a view camera and wanted a modular system for other uses.  

And then ownership changed ......   Jenoptik never seemed to be very interested in the M camera system.   It remained part of the product line (probably because of existing stock), but was reduced to mainly just being a digital shutter for the P3.  The driving force behind the M camera system was gone.   Jenoptik was already in the beginning stages of the Hy6 and that was going to be their system of the future.  

As for the eSprit 65LV, it should be able to be mounted to the M camera.   It uses the same plates as the Emotion backs according to the www.sinar.ch website.   The US catalog number (Different from the Swiss international numbers) is 94-6878 and sells for $1171.
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henrikfoto

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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2009, 04:17:45 am »

As for the eSprit 65LV, it should be able to be mounted to the M camera.   It uses the same plates as the Emotion backs according to the www.sinar.ch website.   The US catalog number (Different from the Swiss international numbers) is 94-6878 and sells for $1171.
[/quote]



I have talked to Sinar about this. It needs the same physical adapter-plate, but the electronics have to be changed and they decided to "skip" that work for the Sinar M as they say.

Crazy???
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 04:18:25 am by henrikfoto »
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Graham Mitchell

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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2009, 04:30:24 am »

Quote from: henrikfoto
I have talked to Sinar about this. It needs the same physical adapter-plate, but the electronics have to be changed and they decided to "skip" that work for the Sinar M as they say.

Crazy???

Someone must have decided that the demand for that combination would be too low to justify the extra development. The most constructive thing you could do is tell them that they are missing out on a sale until they add M suport to the e65 firmware, and encourage others to do so as well. I do agree with you that in general a company's products should be made compatible with its other offerings.
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ynp

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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2009, 05:43:16 am »

Quote from: foto-z
Someone must have decided that the demand for that combination would be too low to justify the extra development. The most constructive thing you could do is tell them that they are missing out on a sale until they add M suport to the e65 firmware, and encourage others to do so as well. I do agree with you that in general a company's products should be made compatible with its other offerings.
Graham,
Actually , I even ordered the eSprit , and only when I transferred the deposit I was told that I would not be able to use the eSprit on my Sinar-M.

Before that, in 2008, when  I was discussing the 28mm with some Sinar people at the factory, I was told that the new eSprit would work  with the new 28mm lens; I assumed that the M will be supported. Five months ago, when I was ordering the eSprit,  the dealer was not aware that the M is not supported. I dot my money back. Then the dealer received the explanation that Sinar thought that there would be no sense to use the eSprit on the M because of the micro-lenses design. I guess that they still think about the M as being  just a shutter for the p3. I was mostly interested to get a high ISO/ available light back for the AF use of my Sinar-M, and I am sure that there are some other  M-users who are interested in the new back for the Reflex use.

Yevgeny
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rethmeier

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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2009, 06:22:56 am »

Why would you want the eSprit if the eMotion 75 is a much better option for less $?
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paratom

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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2009, 06:26:16 am »

Quote from: rethmeier
Why would you want the eSprit if the eMotion 75 is a much better option for less $?

I thought so too. The only really nice advantage about the eSprit I see is the internal DNG/jpg and the large display (which is not to neglect) - but than the 75LV has a bigger sensor, no micro lenses and still good noise behavior, internal memory for less money.
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rethmeier

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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2009, 07:34:54 am »




At  7500 Euro for the e75LV it's a no brainer!
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Willem Rethmeier
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henrikfoto

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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2009, 07:37:27 am »

Quote from: paratom
I thought so too. The only really nice advantage about the eSprit I see is the internal DNG/jpg and the large display (which is not to neglect) - but than the 75LV has a bigger sensor, no micro lenses and still good noise behavior, internal memory for less money.


I don´t think that is really the point. What back people choose is personal. The point here is: Sinar has made a very nice new back with a Kodak-ship a lot of people love and they do not make this available to some of their best costumers who uses their only current medium-format system. To me that is a clear sign that they don´t think their own medium-format system has a future.

This is suicide.. They show we can´t trust in what they are telling us when we buy into a very expensive system. How can we know what their next step will be? People want to know they invest in a system of the future, and that the investment you make will not suddenly be discontinued. This is really sad for Sinar and all of us who love their fantastic products...
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