Anyone using Capture 1 4.8 to convert Sinar DNG?

[avelpavel]

I'm trying to find the best way to develop Sinar Emotion files (currently E75LV while my 54LV is on the way to the doctor...) with Capture One 4.8.

I'm using Exposure too but it lacks highlights control so I have mad some tests with C1. It looks however that it pulls out a bit of grain in the shadows (which for instance aperture or cs3 don't but I don't like them very much) and the DNG standard profile seems a bit washed. I have tried P25 easy grey profile and it seems better. (all images without USM and standard parameteres)

Anyone is using it to develop Sinar DNGs? Which profiles do you find better suited to it?

I attach some tests, I hope it shows the grain I'm talking about.

Thanks! Regards

Roberto

_________________________
www.robertopastrovicchio.com

[Graham Mitchell]

I'm using Exposure too but it lacks highlights control

Do you mean 'highlight recovery'? This is the one feature I miss using eXposure. (It wouldn't hurt to request from Sinar that this feature be added. The right person to talk to is even on this forum from time to time, so perhaps he will chime in.) I use ACR or Lightroom on those files. Or sometimes I even blend the recovered highlights from ACR with a TIFF exported from eXposure because eXposure does the best job overall.

[avelpavel]

Hi Graham, yes I mean highlight recovery!

I'm using Exposure to tether the back and running Capture One as my main window with hot folder enabled, so I can check the real highlights in the image. Using the highlight alert on Exposure and keeping the values not blinking gives me always an underexposed file, so troubles in the shadows.

I hope the next Exposure version will have this great (and basic) feature! One software for all... a dream!

thanks, regards

roberto

Do you mean 'highlight recovery'? This is the one feature I miss using eXposure. (It wouldn't hurt to request from Sinar that this feature be added. The right person to talk to is even on this forum from time to time, so perhaps he will chime in.) I use ACR or Lightroom on those files. Or sometimes I even blend the recovered highlights from ACR with a TIFF exported from eXposure because eXposure does the best job overall.

[Graham Mitchell]

Using the highlight alert on Exposure and keeping the values not blinking gives me always an underexposed file, so troubles in the shadows.

The default warning level is 250 (out of 255). If this is too low you could set it a little higher. What is yours set at?

[avelpavel]

I have it set at 250, I will try to set it higher and test how much difference there is with c1 in highlights to recover.

The default warning level is 250 (out of 255). If this is too low you could set it a little higher. What is yours set at?

[Graham Mitchell]

I have it set at 250, I will try to set it higher and test how much difference there is with c1 in highlights to recover.

This warning level won't affect the exposure of the file at all. It will just affect the visual overexposure warning displayed on screen.

If you were previously exposing so that you got no exposure warning at all, set at 250, then you were not taking full advantage of the DR of the camera (athough only a marginal amount). You should also never need to use a highlight recovery if you were exposing below 250, so I'm slightly confused about your problem.

[ThierryH]

Me too, Pavel, am confused about this:

Please be informed that eXposure DOES include a highlight recovery, however in the "back" and without control over it. This means that your DNG file produced by eXposure DOES HAVE the best possible highlight details.

As soon as you export this eXposure DNG, e.g. into Aperture, ACR, C1, etc ..., the highlights recovery in these DNG readers/applications, DO NOT allow for more recovery as what is already available in your original DNG produced in eXposure, whatever settings you are using. What has not been recovered by eXposure is not there, respectively cannot be recovered or appear in DNG reader applications.

I agree however, that some controls for this feature in eXposure, and not having it running automatically in the background would be great. BUT it DOES a great recovery, at least as good as the famous Brumbaer DNG converter for the same eMotion files.

Best regards,
Thierry

I'm slightly confused about your problem.

[avelpavel]

Maybe I wasn't clear with my post, I will take some pics after lunch to better explain it...  

This warning level won't affect the exposure of the file at all. It will just affect the visual overexposure warning displayed on screen.

If you were previously exposing so that you got no exposure warning at all, set at 250, then you were not taking full advantage of the DR of the camera (athough only a marginal amount). You should also never need to use a highlight recovery if you were exposing below 250, so I'm slightly confused about your problem.

[avelpavel]

Hi Thierry,

here is what I have found, have a look at the screenshots. The file is the same, shot with 75LV and Exposure v. 6.2.0.

pic 01 : first I noticed that the dng opened in C1 and Exposure has a difference of about 1 stop (Exposure the darker).

pic 02 : so I've tried to normalize the C1 image lowering the exposure by 1 stop, so the histograms in C1 and Exposure are similar. (Right now C1 has in my        opinion a better rendering of highlights, see the top of the can)

pic 03 : Then I tried to recovery the highlight in C1, the same in Exposure with the slider "exposure compensation" but I'm not able to reach a similar result
as in C1.

So if I like to use Exposure only how can I recovery these lost highlights, if Exposure has them in the DNG? There is another way?

Or what you told me it means: Exposure put the best amount of data in the dngs... and then we must use a software like C1, ACR or others to use that full spectrum of highlights and shadows values?

Thanks for your help, kind regards!

Roberto


ps by the way, this post was more about a tip about which is the best profile to use with Emotion backs...  

Me too, Pavel, am confused about this:

Please be informed that eXposure DOES include a highlight recovery, however in the "back" and without control over it. This means that your DNG file produced by eXposure DOES HAVE the best possible highlight details.

As soon as you export this eXposure DNG, e.g. into Aperture, ACR, C1, etc ..., the highlights recovery in these DNG readers/applications, DO NOT allow for more recovery as what is already available in your original DNG produced in eXposure, whatever settings you are using. What has not been recovered by eXposure is not there, respectively cannot be recovered or appear in DNG reader applications.

I agree however, that some controls for this feature in eXposure, and not having it running automatically in the background would be great. BUT it DOES a great recovery, at least as good as the famous Brumbaer DNG converter for the same eMotion files.

Best regards,
Thierry

[ThierryH]

Roberto,

I don't know why the image in C1 looks about 1 stop brighter, but that has nothing to do with eXposure, respectively has probably to do with the curve used in C1 or other settings used in C1.

But one important thing to understand: eXposure creates DNG files. These DNG files DO INCLUDE all the information which is possible to get out of the .IA and .BR eMotion files (the real RAWs), as well in the high lights as in the shadows and other tones. What is not present in the eXposure DNG CANNOT be created in C1 or any other DNG compatible application (ACR, Aperture, LR, RD, etc ...).

Then: as explained previously, eXposure DOES NOT have control tools for the highlights. The "Exposure Compensation" IS NOT a high light tool. C1, ACR, LR, etc ..., DO HAVE controls to adjust the highlights. Your eXposure DNG HAS the information in the highlights, otherwise you WON'T be able to see it in C1.

Therefore, if you want to twick your highlights, you HAVE TO use a DNG compatible application (C1, ACR, LR, Aperture, etc ...). eXposure IS NOT an application to play around with the files as are C1, LR, ACR, Aperture, etc ...: it does simply create the best posible DNGs.

Best regards,
Thierry

Hi Thierry,

here is what I have found, have a look at the screenshots. The file is the same, shot with 75LV and Exposure v. 6.2.0.

pic 01 : first I noticed that the dng opened in C1 and Exposure has a difference of about 1 stop (Exposure the darker).

pic 02 : so I've tried to normalize the C1 image lowering the exposure by 1 stop, so the histograms in C1 and Exposure are similar. (Right now C1 has in my        opinion a better rendering of highlights, see the top of the can)

pic 03 : Then I tried to recovery the highlight in C1, the same in Exposure with the slider "exposure compensation" but I'm not able to reach a similar result
as in C1.

So if I like to use Exposure only how can I recovery these lost highlights, if Exposure has them in the DNG? There is another way?

Or what you told me it means: Exposure put the best amount of data in the dngs... and then we must use a software like C1, ACR or others to use that full spectrum of highlights and shadows values?

Thanks for your help, kind regards!

Roberto


ps by the way, this post was more about a tip about which is the best profile to use with Emotion backs...  

[avelpavel]

Thanks Thierry!

Best regards

Roberto

Roberto,

I don't know why the image in C1 looks about 1 stop brighter, but that has nothing to do with eXposure, respectively has probably to do with the curve used in C1 or other settings used in C1.

But one important thing to understand: eXposure creates DNG files. These DNG files DO INCLUDE all the information which is possible to get out of the .IA and .BR eMotion files (the real RAWs), as well in the high lights as in the shadows and other tones. What is not present in the eXposure DNG CANNOT be created in C1 or any other DNG compatible application (ACR, Aperture, LR, RD, etc ...).

Then: as explained previously, eXposure DOES NOT have control tools for the highlights. The "Exposure Compensation" IS NOT a high light tool. C1, ACR, LR, etc ..., DO HAVE controls to adjust the highlights. Your eXposure DNG HAS the information in the highlights, otherwise you WON'T be able to see it in C1.

Therefore, if you want to twick your highlights, you HAVE TO use a DNG compatible application (C1, ACR, LR, Aperture, etc ...). eXposure IS NOT an application to play around with the files as are C1, LR, ACR, Aperture, etc ...: it does simply create the best posible DNGs.

Best regards,
Thierry

[Carsten W]

pic 02 : so I've tried to normalize the C1 image lowering the exposure by 1 stop, so the histograms in C1 and Exposure are similar. (Right now C1 has in my        opinion a better rendering of highlights, see the top of the can)

I have no clue what I am talking about, so please don't take what I say too seriously, but I see a distinct difference in contrast and saturation, with eXposure being higher contrast and more saturated. Does C1 still render the highlights better if you lower these in eXposure or raise them in C1 (without using "Highlight Recovery" first)?

[avelpavel]

Sure there are differences in contrast and saturation, different profiles, I will try tomorrow to look at it and find some differences.


Thanks, regards

Roberto

I have no clue what I am talking about, so please don't take what I say too seriously, but I see a distinct difference in contrast and saturation, with eXposure being higher contrast and more saturated. Does C1 still render the highlights better if you lower these in eXposure or raise them in C1 (without using "Highlight Recovery" first)?

[Graham Mitchell]

Please remember that these different RAW processing applications have different default curves and other settings.

I can see that C1 was set to 'standard film', for example. You can't compare 2 applications unless all the settings are the same, and sometimes that is not possible or there may be hidden settings.

Without having the RAW file I can't really be sure what's going on.

[paratom]

Please remember that these different RAW processing applications have different default curves and other settings.

I can see that C1 was set to 'standard film', for example. You can't compare 2 applications unless all the settings are the same, and sometimes that is not possible or there may be hidden settings.

Without having the RAW file I can't really be sure what's going on.

I have played around with c1 and LR t to convert the sinar-dngs, but overall I feel I get the best results with exposure.
c1 and LR have shown sometimes funky pink and green points, I believe it ´s moriee-based-which has not been visible if I converted the same file in exposure.
Also I feel that I get overall the best color in Exposure.
However I also would wish exposure would have 2 more sliders, one for highlight recovery and one for "filllight".
Or I wish there was a propper profile for Sinar-backs in C1 (However I do not expect phase to include profiles for Sinar cameras-but maybe somebody creates one on his own? (I dont know how to do it and dont have the hard/software to do it)
In the beginning I felt limited with Exposure, now I only miss those 2 features and like the user interface to not be overloaded.
Tom

[avelpavel]

I think I will try to make a variation in the C1 color profile editor to match the Exposure palette, which I find to be the best too, red hues are really good in it.

By the way I have not found colored points or similar yet, it happened with Aperture and sometimes with CS3 but it varies a lot with the subject.

However I must say I'm really amazed by the file quality of 75LV, even raising ISO... my HDs will suffer!

Thanks, Regards

Roberto

I have played around with c1 and LR t to convert the sinar-dngs, but overall I feel I get the best results with exposure.
c1 and LR have shown sometimes funky pink and green points, I believe it ´s moriee-based-which has not been visible if I converted the same file in exposure.
Also I feel that I get overall the best color in Exposure.
However I also would wish exposure would have 2 more sliders, one for highlight recovery and one for "filllight".
Or I wish there was a propper profile for Sinar-backs in C1 (However I do not expect phase to include profiles for Sinar cameras-but maybe somebody creates one on his own? (I dont know how to do it and dont have the hard/software to do it)
In the beginning I felt limited with Exposure, now I only miss those 2 features and like the user interface to not be overloaded.
Tom

[ynp]

In my experience the best skin tones I can get in eXposure and RawDeveloper is on the second place.
Yevgeny

[jps]

I am relatively new to eXposure and must confess that it confuses me somewhat and I find the HELP ,well unhelpful ! I am shooting untetherd with a 75LV back , mainly onto a memory card. My workflow is to covert to DNG then develop in lightroom/acr .What I am curious about is when I import the data and create the DNG is any information lost or changed by tweaking the process controls ?  ... I know that the preview rendering will change .... but does the actual raw data change in any way ?
Another puzzle is if I copy the contents of the memory card onto desktop/folder why cant eXposure "see" this and process as if it was the card in the reader  What Im getting at here is that there does not appear to be any way to preserve the IA , WR , BR  RAW data so that you can process later in exposure?  Brumbear lets you do this.

I second Roberto's comments re file quality !

Cheers JOHN

[ThierryH]

Dear John,

- no, the raw data is not affected, nor do you loose anything, when importing with different settings/controls. That affects only the preview(s)/thumbnail(s) in the contact sheet.

Best regards,
Thierry

I am relatively new to eXposure and must confess that it confuses me somewhat and I find the HELP ,well unhelpful ! I am shooting untetherd with a 75LV back , mainly onto a memory card. My workflow is to covert to DNG then develop in lightroom/acr .What I am curious about is when I import the data and create the DNG is any information lost or changed by tweaking the process controls ?  ... I know that the preview rendering will change .... but does the actual raw data change in any way ?

Cheers JOHN

[jps]

Dear Thierry

Thanks very much for confirming this.  I am still puzzled by why I cannot convert the data saved from the card into DNG. Why must it be done directly from the card ?

Cheers JOHN