Hasselblad Bankruptcy?

[ThierryH]

I find this to be a very good idea, and do agree with you, Paul.

Best regards,
Thierry

... start by changing the name of this forum.."Digital backs and large Sensor Photography"  this would include any sensor with a dimension of at least 36mm...

[AndreNapier]

Doug,
that thing has couple buttons and just a few function. Can you imagine the dealer support and technical knowledge if you guys were selling Nikon or Canons with all the programs and whistles.
When in Chicago stop over to my studio and teach me a thing or two and maybe I will become your client. For example I want to work how to change ISO to usable 800.
Andre

Sounds like you have some experience with one or more specific poor quality dealers. I hope you'll reconsider allowing this to taint your opinion of dealers in general.




I do. I am not bragging, and I am not claiming exclusivity. In fact I'm quite confident that if you took my job you would understand. It is a product of how a good dealer does business. My entire job is technical knowledge and support. A good dealer's technical services agent is uniquely situated as they have personal and direct relationships with their customers as well as personal and direct relationships with the engineers and internal technical team of the manufacturers.

Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

[Doug Peterson]

Doug,
that thing has couple buttons and just a few function. Can you imagine the dealer support and technical knowledge if you guys were selling Nikon or Canons with all the programs and whistles.
When in Chicago stop over to my studio and teach me a thing or two and maybe I will become your client. For example I want to work how to change ISO to usable 800.
Andre

We in fact do sell and support Canon, and yes, learning how to set the Master/Slave functions on the 430/580 with auto-ratios between channels, or the FTP wireless setup for 5DIIs to shoot raw+JPG to card and JPG only to computer (not as easy as with a 1Ds III), or keeping up with which OS updates break what Canon tethering issues require time and effort as well. How many levels up in Canon's central 800 number technical support line you'd have to get to speak with someone similarly well versed in each of these is a painful thought. The documentation is just terrible.

Out of curiosity about that ISO800, PM me (to keep the thread clean) with your digital back model, firmware version, and what software and settings you are converting with.


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

[AndreNapier]

We in fact do sell and support Canon, and yes, learning how to set the Master/Slave functions on the 430/580 with auto-ratios between channels, or the FTP wireless setup for 5DIIs to shoot raw+JPG to card and JPG only to computer (not as easy as with a 1Ds III), or keeping up with which OS updates break what Canon tethering issues require time and effort as well. How many levels up in Canon's central 800 number technical support line you'd have to get to speak with someone similarly well versed in each of these is a painful thought. The documentation is just terrible.

Out of curiosity about that ISO800, PM me (to keep the thread clean) with your digital back model, firmware version, and what software and settings you are converting with.


Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
__________________
Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
Phase One, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Eizo & More
National: 877.217.9870  |  Cell: 740.707.2183
Newsletter: Read Latest or Sign Up

Great to hear that about Canon and Nikon but is your knowledge and support on the way of selling them at a fix advertised price?
Andre

[archivue]

Sounds like you have some experience with one or more specific poor quality dealers. I hope you'll reconsider allowing this to taint your opinion of dealers in general.

of course... for computers for instance, i have a good dealer, and sometimes their prices aren't the cheaper ones... but i still buy from this place, because of their good support !

But i know a bunch of places where i won't buy anything at any price...

PS to DOUG : it was nice to deal with you for the kapture back !

[gwhitf]

Today, I am announcing the birth of my new business. It's called "George's Add Another Layer Inc."

Business Model presented when I went to get my loan, (from Lehman Brothers, oops): What I do is, I buy lots of digital backs from whatever dealer in the country will sell them to me the cheapest. I make sure and buy the longest warranty I can, and then, I mark them up some more, and I resell them again to an End User. I'm referred to in the 'biz as a VARfVAR, which of course means "Value Added Reseller from a Value Added Reseller".

If some guy has something wrong, I just do a Google search on the Interweb, and find the answer, or if something really goes wrong, I call the guy I bought it from.

The only thing is: I've heard rumors of a new category called VARfVARfVAR, which means I've got to be careful who I sell to, or else somebody's gonna steal my business model.

Of course I'm kidding about (most of) this. My base frustration centers really around Phase, but it could just as easily be Hasselblad or Leaf, in that, they just put this product out there, and pawn off the problems onto the Dealers to deal with.

EDIT: My other point is: The entire photo world seems like it's changing almost overnight. It's very quickly becoming a Canon/Nikon/Apple/iPod/Blackberry/Email/JustGoodEnough world out there, and while these MF companies plot their spreadsheets and use their VARs, the entire rest of the world is just ordering stuff from B&H and getting on with their life. And that ratio is changing fast. Like it or not, it's just happening. Stick your head in the sand if you like, like that SouthPark episode. Look at The Selby, or even that Chessum reference today on Jackanory. 35 is just good enough, like it or not, and money talks. I might not like it either, but anyone is a fool to not notice what's going on around them. Easy, cheap, and hassle-free -- that is the New Reality. So many guys here, grabbing their crotch, and angsting over every pixel, when the whole world just wants to gobble up the next bit of 72dpi information and move on with their life.

And for the record, Chessum is a damn good photographer, and to me, this picture is lame. I was shocked when I saw it, that he turned it in, and it ran. Is this the New Reality? Set it to ASA 800 and shoot it available light? Looks like The Kitchen Manager shot the job.

http://www.whatsthejackanory.com/2009/05/c...in-the-kitchen/

[bcooter]

Today, I am announcing the birth of my new business. It's called "George's Add Another Layer Inc."

George, you haven't been paying attention to the real world business model.  Think derivatives, think ING.

You can't make any money selling product, you gotta sell promises.

Here's what you do.  Get a small office on Wall St.  You know, sublease from Lehman, they've got plenty of room.

Then build a website offering things that haven't happened yet.  Leaf Shutter lenses, Wide Angles, high iso software for all medium format cameras and of course, don't forget the high def lcd to go on the back.

A good model maker can knock out some prototypes in about two days and from announcement to delivery you have at least two years.  Think Photokina to Photokina.

Then you take deposits, with dates TBA.   When you get those angry e-mails and calls, just publish a statement that says the manufacturer won't disclose information until product is ready to ship.

If you really get in a bind, say your working on the windows version of the software, that's another two years of float.

If you have to ship something to avoid those pesky class action things, just go to ebay and buy some used stuff.  You can always ship it out as loaners, with a promise to deliver the new stuff when it comes out and don't forget the interest on the leases.  

That way you hold all those deposits, convert them to some usable currency, (I would suggest the HK dollar), and if things get worse, you just buy other companies, in fact try to buy all the camera companies, that way your too big to fail and the government will write you a few billion to stay afloat as long as you promise to make solar powered cameras next year.

Get the picture?  Ha, get the picture, that's pretty funny.

B

[elitegroup]

George, you haven't been paying attention to the real world business model.  Think derivatives, think ING.

You can't make any money selling product, you gotta sell promises.

Here's what you do.  Get a small office on Wall St.  You know, sublease from Lehman, they've got plenty of room.

Then build a website offering things that haven't happened yet.  Leaf Shutter lenses, Wide Angles, high iso software for all medium format cameras and of course, don't forget the high def lcd to go on the back.

A good model maker can knock out some prototypes in about two days and from announcement to delivery you have at least two years.  Think Photokina to Photokina.

Then you take deposits, with dates TBA.   When you get those angry e-mails and calls, just publish a statement that says the manufacturer won't disclose information until product is ready to ship.

If you really get in a bind, say your working on the windows version of the software, that's another two years of float.

If you have to ship something to avoid those pesky class action things, just go to ebay and buy some used stuff.  You can always ship it out as loaners, with a promise to deliver the new stuff when it comes out and don't forget the interest on the leases.  

That way you hold all those deposits, convert them to some usable currency, (I would suggest the HK dollar), and if things get worse, you just buy other companies, in fact try to buy all the camera companies, that way your too big to fail and the government will write you a few billion to stay afloat as long as you promise to make solar powered cameras next year.

Get the picture?  Ha, get the picture, that's pretty funny.

B

LOL  

I think I wanna be King Cooter  

[paul_jones]

George,

Just updated....

http://www.hasselblad.com/products/lenses-...ccessories.aspx

Go to one of the links and you will see RRP pricing on all lenses and accessories.

.....Aaaand before anyone jumps, we are not getting rid of our dealers.  It is a step to 'straight forwardness' if you like, George.

As for the rest of the thread, thanks to Jordan for clarifying the 'MAP' situation and the only resting comment is that we are not going backrupt.  

David

thats a lot better, its easier to buy, and when all the bits are grouped up together, you see bits that you didnt know you wanted to buy. but you need to add a buy now option, so you can take advantage of the impulse purchase- like when ive just got that chunky cheque in - and you feel like you cant go wrong, and the big jobs are going keep on pouring in (this was before the recession).

paul

[John.Williams]

When I read the topic I just had to shake my head and wonder what inspires people to come up with this stuff - and secondarily, why the board administrator has not changed the title to preserve legitimacy.

There have been rumors that Hasselblad has been going out of business for what, let's see - the past four years now? Yet mysteriously, continues to earn a profit and invest in the next level of technology that - now wait a minute - photographers actually BUY.

It makes me wonder if some of the chatter on this thread is from photographers who shoot with medium-format digital (or have not?) I expect a slew of spit and flames from a few users who have already commented on this forum, but for the rest: focus on the tools you are using (or need to use) to produce outstanding images that are different enough to get you noticed and hired.

And from the early days of UNIX command line: Think before you type.

John
---
hotwire-digital.com

[Rob C]

There are many ways of looking at the selling proposition, but I think it´s a mistake to knock the local dealer too hard.

Yes, no internet existed in the days when I used a couple of ´blads every day, but there certainly were a hell of a lot of postal dealers who invariably produced the lowest prices. I never used them because I liked the option of walking a couple of hundred yards to the local Hasselblad retailer and actually being able to hold the product in my hands. I bought all my Hass and Nikon stuff from him.

Then, one day I wanted to get something in a hurry and dropped in to the shop for a chat and a purchase. Except that I couldn´t do it anymore. Why? Because retail price maintenance had been abolished for some time and the new reality - it didn´t just happen yesterday, guys - was that Hasselblad had dropped him from its dealer list because he could not order in sufficient quantity to make it worthwhile for them - or so he informed me and I have no reason to doubt him as he remained the area´s Leica dealer for many years after that. On pressing him further, it turned out that he could not take delivery from Hasselblad at the prices that dealers in London were RETAILING!

And that is only one industry and a single commodity. It exists in almost every other too, which is why you generally only find supermarkets today.

Take a look at your High Streets; if you live in the UK you will see the shingles of more charities than retailers. To conclude that open-market price warfare is good for the consumer is simply to buy the hokum that the dominant power is handing you. Somebody suggested setting up a megadump in the middle of some town somewhere and just taking the plane there. I used to think it was only the Brits would spend five quid in petrol to save one in the shop - guess not anymore.

The essence of the thing is this: you can´t survive long in a society where only the richest conglomerate can operate. If the local business structure falters, as photographers you will feel the earthquake. Let´s not all pretend we work for Mad Ave or wherever that world lives today; the mainstay of most photographers is and always has been the local community, the small factory, the larger shops, the social life of the place, the relationships built upon local knowledge, reputation and trust. When you allow the small town and its business to vanish, all you get are photo-opportunities for the next generation of ghost-town scavenger.

So pay a little more; have somebody you can actually speak with, to whom you can return something for attention should it go wrong. Cutting everything down to that last buck is tantamount to slitting your own throat.

Rob C

[jonstewart]

Well said Rob.

Charities don't pay rates etc, so it's not surpising that so many can afford to take high street slots. I was walking down my local provincial town recently, and, barring big ticket items, I couldn't really see anything that couldn't be bought in some of the bigger supermarkets - and easier parking too.

You get rid of the local competition, and suddenly the conglomerate can apply whatever pricing, terms and conditions they like. Bad for the consumer.

However, my problem is that there is nobody in the province who does sell the sort of equipment I am looking for. Went into the Calumet in the main town - the ONLY 'professional' chain on the island, and they couldn't even begin to price me an Ultima 35, let alone let me see one.

[GiorgioNiro]

Why could you not kick the tire? If the company/warehouse/service was located in a central major city, ie Chicago, StLouis,Dallas, etc, just hop on a flight, drive to some anonymous business park somewhere, walk in, (past the service window), and down the hall to the Demo Studio, where all the backs would be set up and working.

Have one price for the back, (box pusher price), and if you wanted to sign up for Additional Software Training, you could.

If Nike can have NikeTown on Michigan Avenue, why couldn't there be a HassieTown, or a PhaseCity, or a LeafVillage, or a SinarMedicalComplexWithLabCoatsAndFrowningScientists? Hell, bring the kids, and make a vacation out of it!

Aren't you amazed on some level, that Canon/Nikon hasn't already done this, on Fifth Avenue...?

Off topic or perhaps not? Nikon House just off Fifth at Rockefeller Center in the 70's did repair cameras, lenses and lend out equipment to the faithful. Too bad that they closed up shop. It was a great place to stop in and feel up the exotic stuff.

[mcfoto]

Off topic or perhaps not? Nikon House just off Fifth at Rockefeller Center in the 70's did repair cameras, lenses and lend out equipment to the faithful. Too bad that they closed up shop. It was a great place to stop in and feel up the exotic stuff.

Hi
They should change the name of this thread as the topic is becoming interesting. In Sydney I used to enjoy going into the camera shops in the film days. Buying film, chemistry & looking at some equipment. Fletchers was a great camera store but they went broke a few years back. The labs have merged into one & the 0ne hour film runs are gone. Now I search on the web or check eBay for the current value of camera gear. I rarely go into a camera store anymore. Used to own a 500CM Hasselblad for 18 years, really liked the build quality. Finally after struggling with the manual focus I sold it for what I paid ( got my money back ) & bought the Mamiya 645AF. I find it hard to get too excited about a camera these days. The new Hasselblad H is built by Fuji, nothing wrong with that but the Hasselblad of old is gone. I like the new Canon cameras & I will not get attached as they seem to have a shelf life of 3 years.  I do like digital but this game has changed. It reminds me of the car industry. The best era was the 1950s-1970s when each car looked different. One of the best examples was the Ford Mustang ( 1965-1968 ) a great design & this car can be built from the ground. I look at cars today & very few if any are exciting. They all look the same.
Denis

[David Grover / Capture One]

The new Hasselblad H is built by Fuji, nothing wrong with that but the Hasselblad of old is gone...

Here we go again!  This is as much misinformation as the title of this thread.

The H camera is and always has been built in Goteborg by many of the same people who built the V system.  Fuji have absolutely no involvement with the body whatsoever, software, firmware or otherwise.

The viewfinder is built by Fuji as it is an optical part, as are the lenses except for the shutter which is designed and manufactured in Goteborg.

The lenses are designed also by us in Goteborg.  We have our own lens designer.  The HTS for example is exclusively built in Goteborg.

The Fuji GX645 is built by us in Goteborg.

As for 'Hasselblad of old is gone', the engineer who designed the H shutter system has been at the company for over 35 years.

I have repeated this information may times on this board and I wonder why it doesn't sink in?

Best,




David

[Kitty]

Base on my experience to Hasseblad H bodies and Fuji GX645 body.
I would like to confirm Hasselblad H and Fuji GX body is almost the same.
Just body color a bit different. Firmware different.

But both works fine. I still believe H body + HC lens with any digitalback is one of the best combination.
Focus is very fast and accurate. Shutter release is also quick response.
Able to manual refocus after auto focus lock and etc.
Too bad that Hasselblad decide to close their system.

And I just hope the shutter life on H body is longer.
I found shutter life last about 30,000 - 40,000 shots only.

I feel Hasselblad V and CF lens character doesn't match well to digitalback.
But the body is robust and maintenance cost is very low.

Kitty

[wollom]

Here we go again!  This is as much misinformation as the title of this thread.

As for 'Hasselblad of old is gone', the engineer who designed the H shutter system has been at the company for over 35 years.

I have repeated this information may times on this board and I wonder why it doesn't sink in?

Best,

David

'Hasselblad of old is gone'. The V series cameras (and RB67s and others) acknowledged that working photographers (not press or sports) needed a tool that you hold to take photographs; that a wide angle lens like 40mm on 6x6 or 50mm on 6x7 gave a particular viewpoint.

With the introduction of digital sensors the "engineers" of old somehow forgot that a 35mm lens on 6 x4.5  are not the same on a 48x36mm sensor.  And now (finally) with a 28mm lens we are told that it will not fully utilise a  44mm x 56mm sensor. A rectangular sensor without a rotating back is a marketing triumph over ergonomics; or worse that the potential of a sensor/lens combination will be software constrained because some bean-counter thinks the publishing world only uses 3:4 images.

Hasselblad (and others) ignored the simple human ergonomics of photography; that holding the camera should not be a gymnastic feat; they entered the realm of Canon, Nikon etc once the photographer needs to pause and rotate the camera.  Rotating the camera body when working on a tripod or camera support; or when the AD wants horizontals and verticals,  is tedious at best.

6x4.5 cameras where designed for a market niche; like wedding photographers; with some of the attributes of 6x6+ but lower cost.  Small-area digital sensors have meant it has been a scramble ever since.

And while I'm bitchen; if Hasselblad engineers thought a 110mm f2, or a 50mm f2.8 had merit why don't  the modern, like minded, engineers think the same? Where's the f1.4 90mm, the 45mm f2? Etc.  

If there was a 28mm lens that covered 44mm x 44mm, and a 90mm f1.4 we'd be back where Hasselblad was 10 years ago.  Until then the "Hasselbald of old is gone"; we might as well use a Cankon.  (or put our 110mm f2 on a Contax with a Phase back)

Wollom

[Graham Mitchell]

Hasselblad (and others) ignored the simple human ergonomics of photography; that holding the camera should not be a gymnastic feat; they entered the realm of Canon, Nikon etc once the photographer needs to pause and rotate the camera.  Rotating the camera body when working on a tripod or camera support; or when the AD wants horizontals and verticals,  is tedious at best.

Well there is at least one camera with a rotating digital back - Hy6

Great if you want to use a waist level finder too!

[TMARK]

EDIT: My other point is: The entire photo world seems like it's changing almost overnight. It's very quickly becoming a Canon/Nikon/Apple/iPod/Blackberry/Email/JustGoodEnough world out there, and while these MF companies plot their spreadsheets and use their VARs, the entire rest of the world is just ordering stuff from B&H and getting on with their life. And that ratio is changing fast. Like it or not, it's just happening. Stick your head in the sand if you like, like that SouthPark episode. Look at The Selby, or even that Chessum reference today on Jackanory. 35 is just good enough, like it or not, and money talks. I might not like it either, but anyone is a fool to not notice what's going on around them. Easy, cheap, and hassle-free -- that is the New Reality. So many guys here, grabbing their crotch, and angsting over every pixel, when the whole world just wants to gobble up the next bit of 72dpi information and move on with their life.

And for the record, Chessum is a damn good photographer, and to me, this picture is lame. I was shocked when I saw it, that he turned it in, and it ran. Is this the New Reality? Set it to ASA 800 and shoot it available light? Looks like The Kitchen Manager shot the job.

http://www.whatsthejackanory.com/2009/05/c...in-the-kitchen/

Chessum's shot is truly bad. He is a good shooter, very good, but Christ that is awful.  Its like something the bus boy would have shot with his P&S and posted to his FaceBook page:  "Look who was in the kitchen last night!"

[csp]

Hasselblad (and others) ignored the simple human ergonomics of photography; that holding the camera should not be a gymnastic feat; they entered the realm of Canon, Nikon etc once the photographer needs to pause and rotate the camera.  Rotating the camera body when working on a tripod or camera support; or when the AD wants horizontals and verticals,  is tedious at best.

6x4.5 cameras where designed for a market niche; like wedding photographers; with some of the attributes of 6x6+ but lower cost.  Small-area digital sensors have meant it has been a scramble ever since.

...yes in the past everything was better oh but  even than i much preferred the pentax 6x7 over  the RB/RZ   ;-))