Scammed on Ebay

[Alex MacPherson]

I just found out that I have been scammed for $2100 for a Canon 1Ds Mark ii that I bought on Ebay.

Apparently, the seller is being investigated for fraud in several auctions and is no longer listed by ebay.


The seller was out of Indonesia claiming to have a camera with a transferable  USA MACK warranty.

I just thought I would put it out there so if you see anything else like this to avoid it.

I have bought tens of thousands of dollars worth of items off ebay without incident since 1999. I don't fault
ebay. I paid with PayPal so I am getting all my money back.


Just an FYI for all here

[lensfactory]

I paid with PayPal so I am getting all my money back.

That sucks, but hopefully you will learn. There would have been signs that it was fraudulent, but your excitement probably got in the way of your critical faculties. Don't mean to be harsh....but you're also wrong to think you will get ALL the money back from PayPal. You will get about 70-75 percent back if you are lucky.
Good luck!

[haefnerphoto]

Ebay is filled with scams both from sellers and buyers.  A few months ago I tried to sell my 1ds mk2 and twice the winning bidder wanted the camera shipped to Nigeria.  The winners info indicated they were from Florida and the UK but upon winning I received an email with directions to ship to Nairobi and then a fraudulant email from Paypal telling me that in order to protect the buyer, payment would be made when the tracking info was provided.  After this happened the second time I approached  the second highest bidder to buy the camera (who was legitiment) and in the middle of the process Paypal sent the buyer her funds back because they finally figured out there was something wrong with the first deal.  We had just shipped the camera to someone who now had not paid for it, so I was able to have the shipper return the camera and have given up selling it for the time being.  Fortunately, all I lost was the cost of listing the camera, $30-35.  I thought I'd never bother with ebay again but just a couple of Mondays ago we searched for Apple 30" moniters and found an auction where a design firm had gone out of business in Detroit (where I'm located) and had 6 moniters new in their boxes.  I contacted the seller (who had 100% positive feedback going back to 2002) to see about purchasing a couple of them for a buy now price and I'd pick them up at the end of the week.  We arrived at a price of 1000.00, hearing that, several associates decided they'd like one also.  Consequently, we bought five moniters for 5000.00 and paid through my Paypal account.  I asked to have a look at the equipment later that day and was informed that it was locked up in a storage area in the office building where we were to pick up the monitors and the seller (who claimed he was a liquidator) wasn't going to be in town before Friday.  He also mentioned that he had three Pro towers he was going to auction Wednesday morning and asked if I was interested.  He supplied the specs for the machines and a picture of the boxes (again, brand new, still in the boxes).  The pricing was equivilant to what we paid for the monitors, 60% of the retail cost.  I was starting to become skeptical but my associates were in favor of purchasing all three, this time because of my skepticism I put down 25% with the understanding that I'd pay the balance with a cashiers check that coming Friday.  Our conversations continued over the phone as to the timing and exact location of the pickup (even a conversation Friday morning) but upon arriving Friday afternoon at the designated location our seller was no where to be found and no one at the place had ever heard of the seller or design firm or the company that the cashiers check was made out to.  Here's what I've learned or relearned, if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.  From the police officer who took the report I've also learned that scammers have software that generate positive feedback for their ebay listings.  So if you ever see an auction and the seller claims to be Brian Olsen don't participate and please let me know about it.  If all this hasn't bored you enough, I'm adding the email correspondance.  Thanks, Jim

Jim,

Glad to hear it.  My group prefers to use Paypal.  This transaction does not need to take place tonight.  You may have your business manager send the funds tomorrow morning if you like.  They prefer this speedy method to ensure these units are sold and do not need to be auctioned.  Time is limited in the suite and nothing can remain after the 22nd of this month.  Thank you for understanding in advance.


From: james haefner <jim@haefnerphoto.com>
To: Brian Olsen <centralwisconsinfunk@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:23:57 PM
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.

Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested. Brian, I’ll take them.  Is a certified check okay?  Jim



From: Brian Olsen <centralwisconsinfunk@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 16:13:07 -0700 (PDT)
To: james haefner <jim@haefnerphoto.com>
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the quick response.  I spoke to my group about the Mac Pro's.  They appreciate you willing to take these all three units at once but need to at least break even on these and agree to $3,200 per unit.
Your total would be $9,600 USD.  I can set these aside with confirmation of payment via Paypal, exactly like the displays you purchased earlier.  They will be available for pickup with your displays.

I look forward to your response.


From: james haefner <jim@haefnerphoto.com>
To: Brian Olsen <centralwisconsinfunk@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 7:01:23 PM
Subject: Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.

Re: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested. Brian, I am interested in the machines.  I’ll take all three for .50 on the dollar.  Jim



From: Brian Olsen <centralwisconsinfunk@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: <jim@haefnerphoto.com>
Subject: Five, 30" Apple Displays & Info on Mac Pro systems as requested.

Hello Jim,

Once again it was a pleasure dealing with you today.  I thank you for the timely payment.
The address which you can expect to pick up your purchases on Friday, April 17th at 6:30PM is as follows:

65 Cadillac Square Suite 2200, Detroit, MI

I will be expecting your courier at the agreed time.  If they need help with directions or finding me, please pass on my mobile number:  715.310.0054.

We have 3 Mac Pro systems available as well.  I have not yet placed these items up for auction but plan on doing so Wednesday.  I have attached a photograph of the boxes that I took before I left Detroit.  The specs are as follows:

Two 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
8GB (4x2GB)
None
1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
None
None
None
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
Two 18x SuperDrives
None
None
Apple Wireless Mighty Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (English) and User's Guide
AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi Card with 802.11n
These are 8 core systems that retail for $5269.00 each.  Would you like to make an offer before we place them on eBay?  We prefer this rather than unlisting items because this seems to upset many bidders on Email who protest with nasty Emails.

You also requested a receipt for your $5,000 payment from earlier today.  You should have received a receipt directly from Paypal for your payment.  Otherwise, please see below.

Thank you again for your business.  It was a pleasure working with you and your group today.

Payment Received (Unique Transaction ID #2Y060694FG409601Y)

Sent by:
james haefner    
Buyer Email:
jim@haefnerphoto.com
Payment Sent to:
 
centralwisconsinfunk@yahoo.com


Amount received:
$5,000.00 USD
Fee amount:
-$145.30 USD
Net amount:
$4,854.70 USD


Date:
Apr. 13, 2009
Time:
13:33:28 EDT
Status:
Completed

[Roger Calixto]

Since I've never purchased off ebay, I didn't understand if haefnerphoto lost his 5 grand?

Would really suck if he did...

[haefnerphoto]

I lost 5000.00 on the monitors and 2400.00 on the towers.  Jim

[Rob C]

Jesus, that´s a scandal. I have only bought the very rare airline ticket via the web and some photo supplies from a company that I know has been around for years and has a pro reputation to maintain.

I understand that I am ancient, out of touch and generally not of this world, but on the other hand, my scepticism has saved my pocket.

I also saw on TV news today that credit card companies are beginning to welch on paying customers back if travel companies etc. go bust and the bookings have been made via credit card; despite what seems to be a fairly straightforward law (in the UK), they embark upon a series of evasive letters designed to weaken customer resolve to the point where the customer gives up and abandons the chase.

In my opinion, any such behaviour should render those card companies liable to severe governmental penalties and even possible closure. The bigger the mothereffers, the more severe should be the penalty.

Rob C

EDIT: You may have lost money, James, but they haven´t been able to steal your talent.

[feppe]

I have a related experience. I won and paid for a 5D MkII in January. The seller had lots of positive feedback and the price was good - not great but good. And they claimed to have it in stock.

It quickly became apparent that that was not the case. After almost two months of promises of "next week" or whatever, I opened a resolution center case. I demanded a refund, and they claimed to have sent it via IBAN transfer, which never arrived. Finally they sent a physical cheque (piece of paper, haven't seen one of those since the 90s). Went to my bank, and they were as confused as me what to do with it - this is 2009 after all... It's currently being processed, and hopefully it won't bounce.

Lesson learned: never pay via IBAN on big ticket items. If I paid with CC, I could've disputed the charge and be done with it.

[terence_patrick]

Out of curiosity, when checking on feedback through ebay, do you guys look to see what kind of things the seller has sold in the past (assuming they sold something in the past 60 days)?

[haefnerphoto]

Monday I'll post the ebay auction page (it's on one of my machines at the studio).  Hopefully this might prevent someone else from being scammed in a similiar manner.  I don't recall all the items but there was an Ipod or two.  Keep in mind I had quite a few actual conversations with the seller and he always said the right things. (Naturally!)   There's also some more email communication on the studio machine I'll post too.  Jim

[Ben Rubinstein]

When I sold my 1Ds (while it was still current) on ebay I specified pickup for cash only. We met in a service station outside town and I gave him a box, he gave me an envelope stuffed with cash. We both checked our stuff and any second I expected the rozzers to fall on us and arrest us for drug dealing. That's certainly what it looked like!

[Ben Rubinstein]

Jesus, that´s a scandal. I have only bought the very rare airline ticket via the web and some photo supplies from a company that I know has been around for years and has a pro reputation to maintain.

I understand that I am ancient, out of touch and generally not of this world, but on the other hand, my scepticism has saved my pocket.

I also saw on TV news today that credit card companies are beginning to welch on paying customers back if travel companies etc. go bust and the bookings have been made via credit card; despite what seems to be a fairly straightforward law (in the UK), they embark upon a series of evasive letters designed to weaken customer resolve to the point where the customer gives up and abandons the chase.

In my opinion, any such behaviour should render those card companies liable to severe governmental penalties and even possible closure. The bigger the mothereffers, the more severe should be the penalty.

Rob C

EDIT: You may have lost money, James, but they haven´t been able to steal your talent.

Rob, I've found that the best way to get round this is to immediately threaten the lawyer and then get the lawyer to contact them if it doesn't work. Costs but it's usually worth it.

[Rob C]

Rob, I've found that the best way to get round this is to immediately threaten the lawyer and then get the lawyer to contact them if it doesn't work. Costs but it's usually worth it.

I used a lawyer, once, to try chasing up an invoice that had been rejected. I lost the payment, lost the client and had to pay the damned lawyer on top.  So in my book, lawyers are part of the problem and not the solution.

This might sound unfair to lawyers, so I´d better amplify a little.

It was a travel brochure shoot, the one after the Costa Brave faking written about in another thread, and I had been contracted by the ad agency to work for a week. During the shoot, the company´s foreign manager, whom I knew from the previous shoot and who had accompanied me during that first shoot, informed me that there was no way we could complete the job within a week. As the previous shoot, almost exactly the same, had taken two weeks of work, we both knew the reality of the job, and so I told him that if he cleared it back in the UK I was willing to continue over a second week. This was done, and I finished the job and sent in my invoice. The ad agency waited some longish while and then contacted me about the second week. You can almost smell it coming, can´t you?

The second week had been authorised by the tour operator but not by the ad agency. As principal contractor, they were not constrained by nor committed to anything the end client agreed with me. In short, I was effed. I lost all that I had earned on the trip as well as the goodwill and client - the ad agency, which never used me again until many years later, when they had to because one of their fashion clients, for whom I worked separately, instructed them to so do for his work.

And what about my lawyer? Do you really think he didn´t realise at once that I had no case, that permission had not come from the right source? If he did not know, he shouldn´t have been in practice; if he did know yet was willing to string me along, and his invoice upwards, with a series of letters to both ad agency and tour operator, I believe he was at least guilty of negligence if not blatant fraud. Whatever, I made a total profit of zero on that fortnight´s work, the lawyer took it all.

To be kind, perhaps he was teaching a naive young man a lesson in life.

Rob C

[Alex MacPherson]

Out of curiosity, when checking on feedback through ebay, do you guys look to see what kind of things the seller has sold in the past (assuming they sold something in the past 60 days)?

I always check feedback and would never consider buying from a seller with less than 99% feedback and less than 10 transactions.
In my case, the seller had 12 feedbacks they were more than 3 months old.  It didn't seem suspicious at all because the seller
was telling how he was transferring the warranty ect. It seemed totally legit.

As a rule I will never ever buy from a seller that does not accept paypal. It is important to have that kind of protection should
anything go wrong.

[ChrisJR]

I once tried selling something on ebay and stated absolutely no international buyers but the buyer who was registered in the UK turned out to be based in Nigeria.

The buyer demanded that he send me a cheque for £5000, cash it in and then deduct the amount from the sale and forward the remaining balance to him along with the product. wtf!

[Dustbak]

Ah, that is a well-known scam. You end up with a loss in cash as well as losing the item. I haven done almost 200 transactions on Ebay up until 22K USD and have never once been scammed. Maybe my time is still to come. The sound of James  experience is horrifying, it sounds like a very legitimate deal and he got scammed.

I never buy a big ticket item from anyone with low feedback. I always contact them and ask around. I never trust any seller in principle so I am suspicious about everything. I have been walking away from many things that I simply did not trust.

OTOH, there are also a lot of reliable and friendly sellers.

What I find striking is the lack of commitment from Ebay to their legitimate buyers and sellers. Have you ever tried reporting scams? It is so deep in the system that probably most have given up before they ever report something. That should be 1 button on the auction page itself. I have been busy reporting fraudulent auctions for a while. I was able to find at least a dozen within an hour and reported those. It took Ebay the better part of a day to get rid of them. Are they really incapable of hiring people that try to find scam auctions themselves? Has anyone checked what an obscene amount of money Ebay makes? I guess they should be able to do more on fraud prevention but IMO it is not high enough on their list.

[Plekto]

Ebay is just a hellhole now.  I do use it for old software, computer parts, the occasional impulse buy(Atari 7200 plus a wad of games, for instance!), but never for anything over 50-100 unless it's a long-standing E-business.  Well, not unless it's local to me and I can look at the thing first(done this with instruments and two vehicles - just limit the search to 25-50 miles or so)   Went to see them first and bid that evening.  One was literally 6 blocks from my house - nice car, too..

Won't deal with PayPal.  Cash in hand, local pickup at a nearby coffee shop if it's an individual.  Never had a problem.  JUst asking "I'm local - can I pick it up?" gets rid of the scammers.(though also limits my options as well - so be it)

Craigslist is also good - the rule there is cash and carry.  But there's a TON of sifting to do as well.  But they do now have a "nearby areas" function for searches now so you can easily hit a whole area or state quickly.

[neil snape]

Frightful this misadventure.
I buy and sell on Ebay, mostly sell rather.

I really dislike Ebay, what it represents, how it is done.
I don't see any other choice though.
I have sold some things through this forum which is ideal.
Yet low demand objects like old Hasselblad film stuff , there is little interest, and not much on Ebay either.

With the new system of feedback where only the buyer can leave negative feedback , the whole feedback system means much less.
Recently I had a buyer come to pick up the a Broncolor flash (currently listed on Ebay) and they were late for the pick up time slotted between my shoot, refused to pay in cash or Paypal, only by cheque, wanted to fully test the flash while the model was dripping wet on set, asked for a bill including tax, even though agreed to they wouldn't take it without a bill on the spot when I offered to mail it.  

This person walked away, never paid, yet left negative feedback.

Considering I only sell things in pristine condition and only as described, even go to the extent of reimbursing the difference if the billed shipping costs are higher than actual costs, Ebay has gone sour.

As an above poster said trying to help Ebay stop scams and bad buyers /sellers from continuing is made difficult to do if at all, hence by admission they are interested only in a short term cash flow loosing many honest buyers/sellers that made it what it is in the first place.


Sad to hear these problems> it takes away from good faith from us photographers on this forum.

[Richard Morwood]

Much as I hate ebay and do not intend to use it again I feel compelled to tell you of a transaction which had the opposite outcome (sort of restored my faith in human nature).
Several years ago I saw an advert on ebay from a UK seller (I am in Northern Ireland), with zero feedback, for a Hasselblad H system (3 lenses, body and P25 digital back all unused and at stupidly low prices). Against my better judgement, and even though I had been stung by some Californian guy for Fuji GX 617 kit that never existed, I decided to bid for two of the lenses (210 and 300) both at the time very rare to find secondhand. I won the bids but did not meet the minimum requested price so several emails and ultimately phone conversations ensued between the seller and myself and we agreed on a price for the two very similar to my bids.
Whilst talking to the seller I was given the most implausible excuse as to why he was selling the gear. He had bought it for a friend as a gift (his friend was a "member of the Royal Family" although I was never told who) and unfortunately his friend actually already had the stuff!!! Not once did I think this was genuine but I have to say I was impressed with the daring nature of his story.
I had his mobile and his landline home number, I checked his address matched his other details, including the suspected affluence of someone bearing gifts so expensive, but there was no way I would be able to view the goods nor collect myself (due to geography and my time constraints).
We had many conversations over a 3 week period while he was out of the country on holiday, and I checked with the Phase rep in UK as to legitimacy of warranty on back ("all purchased in Calumet in NY"). The rep had heard the same story from another potential purchaser a few weeks previously who had obviously decided not to bother going any further.
Seller recommended an Escrow service and after lots of humming and hah-ing I decided to go ahead still beyond my better judgement. By this time I had got to know the seller a little, or at least I thought I did, and there was nothing I could dislike about him. He was consistent with his stories about purchase and always very pleasant, not at all trying to sell the stuff. He really did seem genuine. Would the goods turn out likewise?
Anyway after clicking the appropriate buttons and holding my breath for several days the goods arrived and were exactly as specified (zero actuations on both lenses, both boxed and brand new). My faith in human nature was somewhat restored. As far as I was concerned the seller did not deserve all the negative messages on the ebay site just because he had a highly unlikely reason for selling. He was as good as his word on everything we discussed. As far as I know his story was true - why would you make something like that up if you were selling genuine gear - and I am even more intrigued now.
A few weeks later he phoned me to see if I or anyone I knew would like to by the P25 back as he was stuck with it. I wanted it but couldn't come anywhere near the asking price so I told him that if he couldn't shift it to give me a call and we might be able to come to some agreement (I had a ridiculously low price in mind, as you would). Several months later I decided to phone him just to check on progress and he was very apologetic and explained that, no, he couldn't find a buyer so he eventually GAVE it to a friend!!! I could have cried.
Regards
Richard

[MichaelAlanBielat]

I have noticed a lot of fraudulent sellers and it is getting worse with each day it seems...

I found that there are 1 cent auctions for such things as desktop wallpaper images, cell phone ring tones or backgrounds and other very, very unusual items that are 1 cent AND come with an instant digital download. Scammers use these auctions to rack up a good 30 or so positive feedbacks and then sit on that account until the auctions are over and no one can see their previous purchases (the item gets grayed out after a while and you cannot see what they purchased)... THAT is when a nice NIB Hasselblad H3D II 60mp camera goes up for sale at a steal of a price....

So watch out for their tactics and be careful with your money. I found it better to purchase things via other methods and not use eBay or Craigslist or anything like that nowadays.

[stevebri]

TIPS TO BEAT THE SCAMMERS

Sorry to hear everyone's problems...

FWIW Here are my tips, I hope they help some people avoid losing out.  I've done roughly 300 transactions on eBay, bought and sold all 100%.

1.  don't go looking to buy a digital back or high end DSLR new or 2nd hand on eBay....  with the exception of Calumet (silly prices) good, high end kit can safely be found and Adorama, KEH etc... and places like Capture Integration and Digital Transitions.  Sure look at Craigslist, if you can go and see the back, in the guy's home or studio, do it...  Ebay too, if it's very local and you can call the fella up, take a peek before the auction end date.

2. as said before, if it's too good a deal, then it is... to good a deal to be true..!

3. use eBay for what it was intended for, selling off that old tripod and head, unused lens, spare RAM etc....  It's not the place for new kit.  Unless you want a cover for your phone or a battery charger from China (ALL my new, cheap purchases from China etc have all arrived and been perfect BTW), don't buy new high end stuff on eBay...  you wouldn't buy an iPhone there would you..?

4. if some one is 'selling due to upgrade' and you cannot call them, think about it... often you get a great trade in on an upgrade... so why is he risking a sale on eBay...?

5. paying a little more from a dealer with a guarantee is well worth it in the end, here is a real, 'right now' example:

Since the launch of the Phase One 645 and their collaboration with Mamiya, a good, second hand Mamiya 45mm AF is now hard to come by cheaply, this is a good thing for Mamiya users and owners... so roughly one a week comes up on eBay by a private seller who seems legit... lots of interest, a few questions and they normally go for just under $400 USD plus shipping.

Adorama and KEH sell the same thing 2nd hand for $430-$500 USD, plus shipping and or tax....

On this evidence it doesn't make sense to 'risk' ebay, buy from the dealer, get a warranty/guarantee and sleep at night.

In other words we need to do our research a little bit more than we do to save money.


If I had seen the 'almost liquidated ' Mac display's on ebay I would have worried...  No pic of the screens.... can this person actually sell them...?  Two alarm bells before we even get started...


Hope this doesn't prove too negative and that it can help...

Best,

Steve