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dealy663

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Lighting for print evaluation/display
« on: March 24, 2009, 01:17:08 pm »

I'm in the process of building a new office/studio. We're trying to make some decisions about lighting, and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any opinions. I'm planning on illuminating the walls of my office with track lighting, and maybe using just a fan light in the middle for general purpose lighting. I expect that one wall will be primarily used for evaluating prints, and another wall will be for displaying prints.

I was all set to just order some tracks from Solux and their 3500k bulbs. But my wife insisted I talk to a lighting designer. He's of the opinion that the Solux bulbs are pretty good but that GE bulbs are better for 2 reasons.

1. The reflective coating on the back of the Solux bulbs degrades over time and this effects the color of the light. While the GE bulbs reflective material is different and more robust. He showed me a couple of Solux bulbs where the reflective material was literally falling off.

2. He also said that the color of the GE bulbs was better for evaluation. When I looked at my prints with the two lights I couldn't really say that one was better than the other, but they did look different. He didn't have the 3500k Solux bulb on hand for me to see.

Do you guys have any thoughts on these issues? Anyone looked at the GE MR-16 bulbs, or know about the supposed decay of the Solux bulbs?

Thanks, Derek
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Scott Martin

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« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2009, 02:26:54 pm »

I would get some more product information particularly looking at color temp and CRI. However, even with the best specs nothing beats hands-on evaluation and experience. Do that in-depth Solux to GE MR16 comparison before committing to a whole bunch for your new studio. Heck, I'd love to do that comparison myself if they have at 36 degree, 50w bulb in the 4100K temp range. Send detailed product info if you've got it.

FWIW, a lot of my Solux bulbs are ~4-6 years old and I'm not seeing any decay. This and the fact that he said the GE bulbs are better for evaluation makes me suspicious - sounds like sales-speak.
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hsmeets

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« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2009, 04:23:40 pm »

Quote from: dealy663
I'm in the process of building a new office/studio. We're trying to make some decisions about lighting, and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any opinions. I'm planning on illuminating the walls of my office with track lighting, and maybe using just a fan light in the middle for general purpose lighting. I expect that one wall will be primarily used for evaluating prints, and another wall will be for displaying prints.

I was all set to just order some tracks from Solux and their 3500k bulbs. But my wife insisted I talk to a lighting designer. He's of the opinion that the Solux bulbs are pretty good but that GE bulbs are better for 2 reasons.

1. The reflective coating on the back of the Solux bulbs degrades over time and this effects the color of the light. While the GE bulbs reflective material is different and more robust. He showed me a couple of Solux bulbs where the reflective material was literally falling off.

2. He also said that the color of the GE bulbs was better for evaluation. When I looked at my prints with the two lights I couldn't really say that one was better than the other, but they did look different. He didn't have the 3500k Solux bulb on hand for me to see.

Do you guys have any thoughts on these issues? Anyone looked at the GE MR-16 bulbs, or know about the supposed decay of the Solux bulbs?

Thanks, Derek

After seeing the somewhat ridiculous pricing of print evaluation booth's I have just started to build one myself. DIY thus.

I've bought 2 fluorescent tubes from Philips: Graphica Pro 950 (that is 5000K and a CI of 96). Each tube costs around € 10,--
In a dutch chain store similar to Home Depot I bought two cheap fixtures. I ripped out the passive ballast and the 'starters'. The ballast and starters where replaced with a 'High Frequency Electronic Balast'  with no need for starters anymore. This electronic ballast was € 75,-- (to drive 2 x 36W tubes). No more flickering (instant on), less power consumption, longer life). Then I bought some plywood/multiplex to build a housing.

[attachment=12430:lichtbak.jpg]

Yesterday evening I wired it provisionally and gave it a test run. With my Digital camera I took some pictures in Auto White Balance mode. When opening the RAW file the software said the camera measured a color temperatuur of 4850K.

When finished I'll have spend less then € 150,-- on it.




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Thomas Krüger

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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 07:03:15 am »

« Last Edit: March 25, 2009, 07:05:04 am by ThomasK »
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bjanes

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« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 09:10:48 am »

Quote from: hsmeets
After seeing the somewhat ridiculous pricing of print evaluation booth's I have just started to build one myself. DIY thus.

I've bought 2 fluorescent tubes from Philips: Graphica Pro 950 (that is 5000K and a CI of 96). Each tube costs around € 10,--
In a dutch chain store similar to Home Depot I bought two cheap fixtures. I ripped out the passive ballast and the 'starters'. The ballast and starters where replaced with a 'High Frequency Electronic Balast'  with no need for starters anymore. This electronic ballast was € 75,-- (to drive 2 x 36W tubes). No more flickering (instant on), less power consumption, longer life). Then I bought some plywood/multiplex to build a housing.

[attachment=12430:lichtbak.jpg]

Yesterday evening I wired it provisionally and gave it a test run. With my Digital camera I took some pictures in Auto White Balance mode. When opening the RAW file the software said the camera measured a color temperatuur of 4850K.

When finished I'll have spend less then € 150,-- on it.

This is a nice start to a home made print viewing environment, but it still does not control the surround and has no provision to adjust the intensity of the illumination. This link covers some of these considerations.

Bill
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walter.sk

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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 10:26:11 am »

Quote from: bjanes
This is a nice start to a home made print viewing environment, but it still does not control the surround and has no provision to adjust the intensity of the illumination. This link covers some of these considerations.

Bill
Thanks for the link.  I particularly liked the presumably unbiased comparisons of the GIT, Just Normlicht and Pantone viewers.
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Craig Lamson

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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 11:06:52 am »

Quote from: walter.sk
Thanks for the link.  I particularly liked the presumably unbiased comparisons of the GIT, Just Normlicht and Pantone viewers.

Walter, just wondering how your quest for the perfect viewer worked out?
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walter.sk

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« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 11:43:00 am »

Quote from: infocusinc
Walter, just wondering how your quest for the perfect viewer worked out?

I had bought a GTI viewer but I had two problems with it.  At the desktop height I use I was at the precise angle to see bright glare reflected across the top of the prints.  In addition, when holding a 17"h x 24"w sheet of Epson Premium glossy paper, the paper was too heavy for the holding device, so the paper slipped down.  I bought some magnets but found the back plate was not magnetic.  GTI was nice enough to offer a free magnetic plate to put over the back panel, but that still would not eliminate the glare.  I must say that for the brief time I had the GTI that being able to match the luminosity of the viewer to that of my NEC 3090 display gave me such a great match between my prints and the soft-proofed image on the display that it was eerie.  The monitor was at 6500 Kelvin and the GTI at 5000 K, but by the time I would turn my head from the monitor to the print viewer my eyes readjusted.

I do not think that the glare was the fault of GTI, but just the viewing angle, which I could not change.  I since returned the GTI, and ordered a viewer from Just Normlicht, which advertises glare-free use.  I ordered a larger viewer so that if I still get the glare across the top I can still view the print lower on the back plate and see the print with no reflection.  In addition, the Just Normlicht has a magnetic back panel, which makes it easy to use magnets to locate my prints wherever I choose.

The problem is that I ordered it from B&H, and it turns out that the Just company has none of that model in the US.  They say I should get it (the "last half of March") and I am still waiting.  In the meantime I am using my desktop folding Ott-Lite, which is barely satisfactory to view just the upper right corner of my prints.

Thanks for asking.
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Craig Lamson

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« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 12:02:24 pm »

Quote from: walter.sk
I had bought a GTI viewer but I had two problems with it.  At the desktop height I use I was at the precise angle to see bright glare reflected across the top of the prints.  In addition, when holding a 17"h x 24"w sheet of Epson Premium glossy paper, the paper was too heavy for the holding device, so the paper slipped down.  I bought some magnets but found the back plate was not magnetic.  GTI was nice enough to offer a free magnetic plate to put over the back panel, but that still would not eliminate the glare.  I must say that for the brief time I had the GTI that being able to match the luminosity of the viewer to that of my NEC 3090 display gave me such a great match between my prints and the soft-proofed image on the display that it was eerie.  The monitor was at 6500 Kelvin and the GTI at 5000 K, but by the time I would turn my head from the monitor to the print viewer my eyes readjusted.

I do not think that the glare was the fault of GTI, but just the viewing angle, which I could not change.  I since returned the GTI, and ordered a viewer from Just Normlicht, which advertises glare-free use.  I ordered a larger viewer so that if I still get the glare across the top I can still view the print lower on the back plate and see the print with no reflection.  In addition, the Just Normlicht has a magnetic back panel, which makes it easy to use magnets to locate my prints wherever I choose.

The problem is that I ordered it from B&H, and it turns out that the Just company has none of that model in the US.  They say I should get it (the "last half of March") and I am still waiting.  In the meantime I am using my desktop folding Ott-Lite, which is barely satisfactory to view just the upper right corner of my prints.

Thanks for asking.

Thanks, when you viewer arrives can you please update us?
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dct123

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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 01:52:25 pm »

Quote from: dealy663
I'm in the process of building a new office/studio. We're trying to make some decisions about lighting, and I thought I'd see if anyone here has any opinions. I'm planning on illuminating the walls of my office with track lighting, and maybe using just a fan light in the middle for general purpose lighting. I expect that one wall will be primarily used for evaluating prints, and another wall will be for displaying prints.

I was all set to just order some tracks from Solux and their 3500k bulbs. But my wife insisted I talk to a lighting designer. He's of the opinion that the Solux bulbs are pretty good but that GE bulbs are better for 2 reasons.

1. The reflective coating on the back of the Solux bulbs degrades over time and this effects the color of the light. While the GE bulbs reflective material is different and more robust. He showed me a couple of Solux bulbs where the reflective material was literally falling off.

2. He also said that the color of the GE bulbs was better for evaluation. When I looked at my prints with the two lights I couldn't really say that one was better than the other, but they did look different. He didn't have the 3500k Solux bulb on hand for me to see.

Do you guys have any thoughts on these issues? Anyone looked at the GE MR-16 bulbs, or know about the supposed decay of the Solux bulbs?

Thanks, Derek

When I first started out in the fine art reproduction business I spent a lot of time and money on lighting. Initially I went with Solux floods and tracks at the walls, with supplemental overhead lighting. As my business grew, I needed the wall space for equipment and racks rather than display, so now I've illuminated my entire 1200 sguare foot studio w/ceiling mount 4' 4-lamp fluorescent fixtures and GE Sunshine 5000K, CRI 90  bulbs. The fixtures are flicker-free, 0° cold start, T8/T12 capability, American Lighting Performance Plus. Some fixtures are mounted lower, from chain, where needed for task lighting. Although these fixtures direct light in a laminar fashion, for task lighting I've used T8 bulbs for an even more concentrated light pattern on the table surfaces.

After much concern about achieving the 'correct' color lighting, I realized that my clients were displaying in galleries and homes where there was not much concern about the 'correct' color of lighting. Even when a client walks out of my studio and into the daylight, the appearance of my reproductions change color; if it is a cloudy day (blue), afternoon or morning sun (orange), or mid day on the north side of my building (more blue than my studio light). And it doesn't matter whether it is a photographic print or a canvas gicleé...the chances of the final destination of that reproduction having the same light as my studio, no matter what brand or type of lighting I use, is nil.

In addition to a good level of illumination, all that I've tried to achieve is a fairly close match of studio lighting, large format scanner lights, and monitors, with everything as close to 5000k and CRI 100 as possible.

It works for me.

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hsmeets

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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 04:04:05 pm »

Quote from: bjanes
This is a nice start to a home made print viewing environment, but it still does not control the surround and has no provision to adjust the intensity of the illumination. This link covers some of these considerations.

Bill

I have no ambition to make from this DIY project a perfect viewing booth at which you can throw any test or iso norm  :-)  it's just a step forward in viewing output in better light then the current plain bulb hanging from the ceiling :-)



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reburns

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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2009, 03:35:56 pm »

Proof this proofing setup!

Situation:  Small home office about 12’ x 12’ x 8’ ceiling.  Currently lit with a central ceiling fan with a JDE11 100W Halogen and halogen desk lamp.

Goal:  Add a 4’ x 6’ magnetic (white) board for viewing.  Add an appropriate number and placement of Solux 3500K MR16’s.  Add a fixture that is most aesthetically compatible with the existing ceiling fan.  An issue to work out is the low ceiling height and light fixture distance from the wall for even spread and low glare.

I find the Solux “monorail” fixtures to be reasonably aesthetic, and am open to a cheaper knock-off.  I need to work out if these fixtures can accept the diffuser clips to further spread the 36-degree bulbs.
https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/monopoint.html  
https://www.solux.net/cgi-bin/tlistore/filt...tml?id=2Sgfuz7u
The plan so far is to use this monorail and angle the lights in a criss-cross fashion to allow the lamps to hit prints at the desired 30-degree angle (i.e. the left lamp illuminates the right side of the viewing board and vice versa).  

Magnetic white boards are available for order in that size for several hundred dollars plus oversized shipping.  A check on Craigslist turned up a few local used candidates on the cheap.  Or I can get a piece of sheet metal and make framing to match the furniture.  

Question #1:  How many such 36-degree lamps should be used how many watts to light this 4’ x 6’ area?  Shoot for EV6.5?
Question #2:  Is there a ~14% neutral grey paint to recoat the “white board”?  Or cover the board with a piece of neutral grey paper, like Savage seamless studio backdrop?  

Last add some magnets that will hold but are also coated to not mar the prints.  Do I have it right once figuring out #1 & #2, or is there missing something?  

- Ralph
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sesshin

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« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2009, 11:31:51 am »

Watch out for the customer service at Solux. They probably have the worst customer service out of any business I have ever dealt with. I've spent $1000s with their company on lighting for my studio yet when I called in to ask a few simple questions they were extremely rude and condescending to me, as if I was wasting their time. If I knew they treated their customers that bad I wouldn't have ever given them my money in the first place. Buyer beware.
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Mulis Pictus

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« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2009, 01:26:36 pm »

Quote from: hsmeets
I've bought 2 fluorescent tubes from Philips: Graphica Pro 950 (that is 5000K and a CI of 96). Each tube costs around € 10,--
In a dutch chain store similar to Home Depot I bought two cheap fixtures. I ripped out the passive ballast and the 'starters'. The ballast and starters where replaced with a 'High Frequency Electronic Balast'  with no need for starters anymore. This electronic ballast was € 75,-- (to drive 2 x 36W tubes). No more flickering (instant on), less power consumption, longer life). Then I bought some plywood/multiplex to build a housing.

Please could you tell me more about the "High Frequency Electronic Balast"? I am looking for info like manufacturer and part number, so that I can find it or something similar locally. I am considering to use it for tubes in my framing workshop.

alain

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« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2009, 07:38:09 am »

Quote from: Mulis Pictus
Please could you tell me more about the "High Frequency Electronic Balast"? I am looking for info like manufacturer and part number, so that I can find it or something similar locally. I am considering to use it for tubes in my framing workshop.

Hi,

 one example : "Osram Quicktronic professional"  series

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hsmeets

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« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2009, 10:55:54 am »

Quote from: alain
Hi,

 one example : "Osram Quicktronic professional"  series


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_tube#Starting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast

Osram as written above or Philips has multiple models on sale (able to drive single or dual tubes, dimmable or not)

Any decent lighting store should be able to help you to obtain a HF ballast.

(Btw: I sayed it was € 75, but that was the total bill (tubes and ballast), the ballast was € 45,--)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 11:02:53 am by hsmeets »
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alain

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« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2009, 11:17:08 am »

Quote from: hsmeets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_tube#Starting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast

Osram as written above or Philips has multiple models on sale (able to drive single or dual tubes, dimmable or not)

Any decent lighting store should be able to help you to obtain a HF ballast.

(Btw: I sayed it was € 75, but that was the total bill (tubes and ballast), the ballast was € 45,--)


Hi it is maybe better to buy a "strip" with a HF ballast inside.  It doesn't cost you much more and you have a elec. safe enclosure where only a tube has to be placed.

It should indeed be available with every decent shop (but not in DIY warehouses here).  I'm quite sure that everybody that sells the good tubes, will sell hf-ballasts or strips with a hf-ballast inside.
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Mulis Pictus

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« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2009, 07:56:12 pm »

Quote from: alain
Hi it is maybe better to buy a "strip" with a HF ballast inside.  It doesn't cost you much more and you have a elec. safe enclosure where only a tube has to be placed.

It should indeed be available with every decent shop (but not in DIY warehouses here).  I'm quite sure that everybody that sells the good tubes, will sell hf-ballasts or strips with a hf-ballast inside.

Alain, Huib, thanks a lot for your answers.

In the beginning I thought the word ballast was used with transfered meaning, but now I see that it has a meaning related to fluorescent tubes as well.

Mulis
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