Vertical Grip for H2/H3 possible?

[gwhitf]

David,

Has there ever been a demand for a modified Vertical Grip for the H series body, that would somehow add a second shutter release at the bottom of the rechargeable grip? It does seem like it would need to wrap around the body, like the contax battery grip solution. I just imagine a physically longer rechargeable grip that's basically the same shape as the current one, but it would include a release near the bottom. Maybe I'll sketch a picture later, of what I envision.

I just wonder if it's ever been considered. Would make a nice addition, if you shoot verticals all day.

[bcooter]

David,

Has there ever been a demand for a modified Vertical Grip for the H series body, that would somehow add a second shutter release at the bottom of the rechargeable grip? It does seem like it would need to wrap around the body, like the contax battery grip solution. I just imagine a physically longer rechargeable grip that's basically the same shape as the current one, but it would include a release near the bottom. Maybe I'll sketch a picture later, of what I envision.

I just wonder if it's ever been considered. Would make a nice addition, if you shoot verticals all day.

Photographers have complained about the vertical hand position of the H series from the day it was introduced, way before imacon or even wide adoption of digital was a gleam in Hasselblad's eye.

The world of medium format is a strange one.

The only medium format camera with a digital interface and right angle grip is Contax and since that was out before Hasselblad it's not like it's a new idea.

Even more remarkable is Nikon or Canon can make one of these in what seems to be about 10 minutes for almost every camera they sell.  

[gwhitf]

One more question for David Grover, regarding the Hasselblad HTS unit:

http://tinyurl.com/cb3ykn

When I look at this HTS unit, and I see what it's made of, and I think of how many times I'd use it (or not), I close my eyes, and I think of a dollar amount that I think that this HTS unit should sell for, and that number is:

$1995, and at most, $2495 USD.

Nothing other than a gut feeling. You look at something, and you think of a number that seems fair. Yet, it's twice that.

Just a little focus group feedback. I'm sure it's a well made unit, but are they just trying to spread the R&D over the eight people that'll ever really buy this thing...?

Why not drop the price out of the stratosphere, and really get it into circulation? Could anyone justify a unit like this, costing more than the original H2 kit, with body, viewfinder, back, and 80 lens....?

Great design is wonderful, but if it just sits on the shelf, unpurchased and unused, what have you achieved? I kept looking for the red dot logo, to justify that price, but couldn't find it.

[jimgolden]

dump the rice on the new zoom too...

[ziocan]

One more question for David Grover, regarding the Hasselblad HTS unit:

http://tinyurl.com/cb3ykn

When I look at this HTS unit, and I see what it's made of, and I think of how many times I'd use it (or not), I close my eyes, and I think of a dollar amount that I think that this HTS unit should sell for, and that number is:

$1995, and at most, $2495 USD.

for today standards, it seems a pretty "rudimental' piece of equipment. So much for R&D, the knobs looks like they were borrowed from a Black & Decker tool.
if that "thing" costs above 5 grands, what a BMW M3 should costs? 1 million? 2.... 3....

[arashm]

Honestly I scratch my head so hard about this one...
has anyone at Hasselblad ever held the H body with a zoom or another heavy lens in the vertical position for more than 5 minutes?
Let alone for 3 days of shooting a look book?
this camera is desperately missing a vertical grip.... every half decent DSLR has an option for one which costs no more than $400!
why not make a comfortable one and put a D3X/1Ds3 style battery in it so we get at least a full mornings session on a battery?
and it has to include an AF-On and vertical shutter as well.

The price of the new Zoom... Honestly why did Hasselblad even make it if they don't intend to sell it.
Because at the current price I don't think anyone except maybe a few rental houses are going to get one.
Just for Perspective the one lens costs more than a D3X where I live.

I like a the H body, I like shooting with the H3D2-31... but some days I just don't get it.
am

[David Grover / Capture One]

One more question for David Grover, regarding the Hasselblad HTS unit:

http://tinyurl.com/cb3ykn

When I look at this HTS unit, and I see what it's made of, and I think of how many times I'd use it (or not), I close my eyes, and I think of a dollar amount that I think that this HTS unit should sell for, and that number is:

$1995, and at most, $2495 USD.

Nothing other than a gut feeling. You look at something, and you think of a number that seems fair. Yet, it's twice that.

Just a little focus group feedback. I'm sure it's a well made unit, but are they just trying to spread the R&D over the eight people that'll ever really buy this thing...?

Why not drop the price out of the stratosphere, and really get it into circulation? Could anyone justify a unit like this, costing more than the original H2 kit, with body, viewfinder, back, and 80 lens....?

Great design is wonderful, but if it just sits on the shelf, unpurchased and unused, what have you achieved? I kept looking for the red dot logo, to justify that price, but couldn't find it.

Agreed the HTS is not an 'economical' item in terms of cost but does give you a lot of use.  It also does contain five elements so is not simply a metal chassis.  

Using the HTS will convert five lenses into T/S lenses, so in some ways you could argue that is a better solution than buying two or three T/S lenses.

As for only selling 8... then right now we sell all we manufacture so I am afraid you are mistaken on that front.  Probably the fastest selling item off the shelves this quarter.  (And before you suggest it we have not made only 10! ;-) )

Also worth noting that unlike any other T/S lens the tilt, shift and rotation values are displayed on the H grip, written into the image file and then used to perform extra lens corrections in the software.

How many would you like?

Best,

David

[David Grover / Capture One]

for today standards, it seems a pretty "rudimental' piece of equipment. So much for R&D, the knobs looks like they were borrowed from a Black & Decker tool.
if that "thing" costs above 5 grands, what a BMW M3 should costs? 1 million? 2.... 3....

The picture B&H show is an old image and the knob design is different.

Rather than use B&H as a reference for all I would suggest our website...

http://www.hasselblad.com/media/1332322/uk...atasheet_v6.pdf

The datasheet is yet to be updated with the new design but I will grab an image later today and post it.

[David Grover / Capture One]

for today standards, it seems a pretty "rudimental' piece of equipment.

Please point me towards a similar product as I am not aware of anything that matches the functionality.

[David Grover / Capture One]

I think since Hasselblad develops massive tables of DAC corrections, the hardware is priced high to subsidize the software side of development. Focus is free, so what really pays for it then. Phase doesn't put anywhere near as much into their corrections in CO 4.6.

Maybe it would cost $2K if there were no software corrections needed or developed.

I do find it funny, that when we shot 4x5 with tilts and swings, who ever needed or bothered making corrections to the image quality because of the T/S.

Good point John!

The HTS was a massive R&D project with Phocus now containing upwards of 50,000 tables of correction data.

Well if we had 4x5 sized sensors a lot of the additional corrections would not be needed.  So unless you want a 50billionMP sensor that cost a million dollars we will probably have to stick with todays methods. :-)

David

[David Grover / Capture One]

Honestly I scratch my head so hard about this one...
has anyone at Hasselblad ever held the H body with a zoom or another heavy lens in the vertical position for more than 5 minutes?
Let alone for 3 days of shooting a look book?
this camera is desperately missing a vertical grip.... every half decent DSLR has an option for one which costs no more than $400!
why not make a comfortable one and put a D3X/1Ds3 style battery in it so we get at least a full mornings session on a battery?
and it has to include an AF-On and vertical shutter as well.

The price of the new Zoom... Honestly why did Hasselblad even make it if they don't intend to sell it.
Because at the current price I don't think anyone except maybe a few rental houses are going to get one.
Just for Perspective the one lens costs more than a D3X where I live.

I like a the H body, I like shooting with the H3D2-31... but some days I just don't get it.
am

Certainly point taken about the vertical grip, especially with heavy lenses.

As for the zoom, again we sell all we make and it is a very useful range for a lot of photographers.  Yes it is a higher price point but it has extraordinary performance for a zoom and again works out cheaper than buying a 35, 50, 80 and 90.

It has a very large front aspherical element which unfortunately can only push up the cost of manufacture.

David

[Dustbak]

I ashoot vertical quite often. I even do it with the zoom now and than but if possible I take the 100mm which is all but welded to my H. Vertical is doable but I agree the ergonomics of the H are against it. I certainly would like to see what you mean with a vertical grip? Some contraption added to the bottom? I don't see it without a thorough redesign of the body (maybe have a close look at a bigger version of the D3(x))

I will be another one of those 8 people that buy the HTS. The DoF is getting so thin at closer range (where I am often at) that I can really use the extra tilt even at the expens of a 1.5crop. Even at that price but I would appreciate it when it was priced friendlier.

The new zoom? I will pass on that one for the time being. The range is overlapped mostly by the older. The older I have, so I don' t have to invest. It is heavier and more akward probably but I simply have to convince myself the extra 'training' helps preventing those 'love-handles' and firms the biceps. I even save some money in the process

[gwhitf]

Also worth noting that unlike any other T/S lens the tilt, shift and rotation values are displayed on the H grip, written into the image file and then used to perform extra lens corrections in the software.

How many would you like?

David,

Thanks for writing back, with a thorough (and confident) answer. I appreciate it.

Since I use the H body with a Phase back, and don't use the software calculations, can I buy the HTS/Knucklehead model that does not do calculations, but simply provides me with shift, (for $2495)? I just need the Manual Version, (for lesser money). I'll even take that demo unit, with the Black and Decker red knobs. All I want to do is shift, not tilt. No calculations. I just want to stitch two frames end to end without the camera body moving or panning.

If not, thanks for coming on here, and being a human voice for Hasselblad.

[David Grover / Capture One]

for today standards, it seems a pretty "rudimental' piece of equipment. So much for R&D, the knobs looks like they were borrowed from a Black & Decker tool.
if that "thing" costs above 5 grands, what a BMW M3 should costs? 1 million? 2.... 3....

Here is how the HTS looks now.  The material between the two standards was also changed.  The knobs are larger, and also have a larger guard to prevent accidental locking of the movements.

[attachment=12412:HTS_new_knobs2.jpg]

[David Grover / Capture One]

David,

Thanks for writing back, with a thorough (and confident) answer. I appreciate it.

Since I use the H body with a Phase back, and don't use the software calculations, can I buy the HTS/Knucklehead model that does not do calculations, but simply provides me with shift, (for $2495)? I just need the Manual Version, (for lesser money). I'll even take that demo unit, with the Black and Decker red knobs. All I want to do is shift, not tilt. No calculations. I just want to stitch two frames end to end without the camera body moving or panning.

If not, thanks for coming on here, and being a human voice for Hasselblad.

Hi gwhitf (hard to type that),

Yes, you can fit the HTS to your body and Phase Back.  It is not exclusive to H3D models.  Shifting only, I don't think you would have so many issues, except for a bit of vignetting which you would have to fix in post.

I am afraid there is only one version of the HTS, no vanilla or HTS-Lite is available.  All the Black & Decker style ones have been burnt as they had inferior optics to the production ones.

It does do a nice job of stitching though, we have knocked out a few panoramas to good effect.

Pleasure to be here... I think!  

David

[vjbelle]

Hi gwhitf (hard to type that),

Yes, you can fit the HTS to your body and Phase Back.  It is not exclusive to H3D models.  Shifting only, I don't think you would have so many issues, except for a bit of vignetting which you would have to fix in post.

I am afraid there is only one version of the HTS, no vanilla or HTS-Lite is available.  All the Black & Decker style ones have been burnt as they had inferior optics to the production ones.

It does do a nice job of stitching though, we have knocked out a few panoramas to good effect.

Pleasure to be here... I think!  

David

Does this mean that tilt can only be utilized with Phocus software?  Is there a workaround for Phase users?

[David Grover / Capture One]

Does this mean that tilt can only be utilized with Phocus software?  Is there a workaround for Phase users?

No, you could use any movement with a Phase/Leaf/Sinar back.

The disadvantage is that you would lose out on the sophisticated lens corrections provided by the H3D and Phocus software.

I guess a bit of shift would not require much but when you throw in tilt/rotation as well then it will save you a lot of time in post production, not having to correct non-linear issues.

David

[arashm]

Certainly point taken about the vertical grip, especially with heavy lenses.

As for the zoom, again we sell all we make and it is a very useful range for a lot of photographers.  Yes it is a higher price point but it has extraordinary performance for a zoom and again works out cheaper than buying a 35, 50, 80 and 90.

It has a very large front aspherical element which unfortunately can only push up the cost of manufacture.

David

David
Thank you for your response, don't get me wrong, I would love to have the zoom, if it was around $5k it would have been a done deal, it's just that this year with billing being down so much, it's very hard to justify almost a $10k (with Tax) purchase.  
Maybe next year.
am

[PeterA]

Hi David,

Could you post some examples of your panoramas please. I would be interested in seeing the tilt and shift in action. I guess a wish list post might include both studio and field examples.


Pete

[julius0377]

...but if possible I take the 100mm which is all but welded to my H....

OT but... this statement is so very true, and the clicks I put into my 100 is about double what I put into all the other lenses combined . That lens is worth using the H system alone IMHO (but not everyone elses I presume   )