Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!  (Read 7885 times)

Terryray

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« on: March 04, 2009, 10:32:47 am »

Hello all,

I am a newbie to photography and I have been selected to do photos for my sons Tae Kwon Do.
I need HELP
I am using a Nikon D700 and have two lenses a 1.4 50mm and a 24-120mm 3.5-5.6 and a tripod.
It is going to be shot in a 70' X 70' gynasium with metal halide lighting
I will be able to get close to the action.
Can someone please give me input as to what camera settings they feel would work best and what lens of the two I have to use?
Should I use the tripod?
ISO?
Aperature?
Flash?
Burst Mode?
I really dont want to screw this up Please Help.
Thanks in advance
Terry
Logged

situgrrl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 342
    • http://www.charlyburnett.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2009, 11:16:17 am »

I'd certainly not take a tripod - hell of a way to slow you down and miss all the action.

I'd shoot it with a slow sync flash - "slow" depending on the standard/speed of the competitors.  This will both freeze the action and yet allow the motion of the move to show.  Metal halide lighting is a good reason to manual white balance - something I almost never bother with when shooting RAW - but it is such an orange light you are likely to clip.

Terryray

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2009, 11:46:37 am »

Thanks Situgrrl.
I appreciate your comments.
Are there any other photographers here willing to put in their 2 cents?
Logged

JBerardi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2009, 06:11:37 pm »

I'd run auto-iso, with the limit set at 6400, unless you're wanting to make serious prints from these. Then maybe 3200.

Ditch the tripod. You have the best low-light iso ability on the planet, take advantage of it. If you really want the tripod, you're welcome to use my D200, I'll take the D700 off your hands...  

The recommendation to use slow sync flash is a good one, but if you're not familiar with the look of such shots, I'd mess around with those settings a bit beforehand to get an feel for how it works. Also be aware that the color of the flash on your D700 is unlikely to match the color of the light in the venue, so you can end up with some funky colors that way. Some people like or at least don't mind that effect though.

I'd also suggest using the 50 as opposed to the 24-120, IF, and only IF, it allows you to get decently framed shots. The image quality off that lens is just hands down better, even before you account for the lower ISO values you'll need due to it's large aperture. But it's worthless if you can't get a decent composition with it.

On that same note, do you have a chance to case the joint before you actually go shoot there? If so, spending 20 minutes there with an assistant (any warm body will do), messing with ISO settings, trying the different lenses from the spot you'll actually be shooting from, using the different auto-focus settings, etc, is extremely helpful. Ask any good wedding photographer... chances are they'd never dream of shooting at a location without scouting it out first, even with hundreds and of events and untold millions of exposures under their belts.

Let me build on that idea. One of the things that it took me FAR too long to figure out is that, in digital photography, your own tests, even very simple ones, are worth their weight in gold (ok, they don't weigh much but you know what I mean). You spent all this money on a camera and lenses, so take a half hour to point the camera at something detailed, and try the different lenses at their different apertures and focal lengths. Try all your different ISOs. Experiment with over- and under-exposing your RAW files. See what these things mean to you within the parameters of your own workflow and photographic needs. For any question you might have, the first thing you should do is try to design a test you can do to answer it yourself.

If some guy in a forum says "it's better to underexpose the D700 by one stop and raise the exposure in post", how do you know? Maybe that's just because of his particular favorite RAW software. Maybe he's looking at saturation instead of noise, because he doesn't care as much about noise. Maybe he simply doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. But if you make the two exposures, processes them in the way you'd normally process a shot, and then just look at them... you won't be wondering anymore, you'll just KNOW. All the fear, uncertainty and doubt simply flies out the window once you've figured these things out first hand, and with digital, it's simply not that hard to do so*.



*(Sorry if any of this sounds harsh or critical, it's not meant to be. I find myself running tests all the time that I had the ability to run the day I got my camera (early '06), and would have saved thousands of exposures if I'd just thought to do them. As they say, it's best to learn from mistakes-- someone else's mistakes if possible!)
Logged

Ken Bennett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1797
    • http://www.kenbennettphoto.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2009, 08:36:33 pm »

You will be shooting the competition action? From the side of the mat? Use the 50mm lens, set around f/2 or f/2.8. Set your ISO high enough so you get proper exposure with at least a 1/250 shutter speed. Use manual exposure -- the lights won't change during the match, but as the competitors move around, your camera will change its autoexposure settings (wrongly).

Setting this up looks something like this: set the camera to manual, f/2, ISO 1600, shoot at test exposure at 1/250 sec. Make sure there are some people in uniform on the mat when you shoot the test. Check your LCD and look at your histogram. Change the ISO until you get a proper exposure (good detail in the white uniforms, nothing blown out). Keep referring to your histogram while you do this. BTW if you can get 1/500, that's even better.

Once you have this set up work done, you should be able to just shoot the event. I occasionally check my exposures while I'm shooting, just to make sure. Shoot fairly loose -- the action happens fast, and they move around a lot. You'll be able to crop later to tighten up when printing, if needed. Shoot a lot of photos; pixels are cheap. Have fun and don't stress.
Logged
Equipment: a camera and some lenses. https://www.instagram.com/wakeforestphoto/

larkvi

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 213
    • http://www.larkvi.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2009, 05:50:10 am »

You really should consider popping over to Strobist and reading the lighting 101 stuff--it has a lot on color temperature and the proper camera and flash settings to get the most out of shoots like that. I think he talks about kit for just such a situation in one of his posts.
Logged
-Sean [ we

Morgan_Moore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2356
    • sammorganmoore.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2009, 06:04:24 pm »

Quote from: Terryray
ISO?
Aperature?
Flash?
Burst Mode?
I really dont want to screw this up Please Help.
Thanks in advance
Terry

Dont rely on , autofocus, burst or any other automation actually working  sport indoors !

I would..

Assuming you can get really close to the action I would use the zoom near the 24mm end and on camera flash, manually focusing at about 2meters

Keep the ISO low and  choose a smallish aperture f8

Drop the shutter speed so the ambient light provides good 'ambience'

Predict the action shooting single frames at critical moments

Keep looking at what you are getting on the back of the camera and change your settings until what you are seeing is what you want

Or

You may get some reults with the 50 at F2 and highish shutter speed (250-500-1000) and a faster ISO, 800

Dont force the camera where it doesnt want to go (6400ISO 125/s f1.4) - you wont get many keepers

Be aware of the contrast in the ambient lighting which may be quite bright but have some horrible shadows

Dont be scared of flash (I say this on all of my 'newb' posts)

S





Logged
Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

mike.online

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 207
    • http://mikedotonline.blogspot.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 08:51:56 pm »

probably already been said but,

auto iso, aperture priority, center single point focus, manual white point balance (done in post easily enough). I would use the zoom lens because it gives you a lot more range, if you are worried about CA because it is not as good as the 50mm, I would just make sure to stop it down from wide open.

also, re: the comment about slow sync flash, i would make sure that you get all of the shots you need to first really crisp, then start playing around with the flash (may be obvious...).

as far as how to shoot, try to make sure you don't take all your photos from eye level.... try getting lower or higher to create interesting perspectives.

- Mike

Morgan_Moore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2356
    • sammorganmoore.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 03:39:34 am »

Quote from: mike.online
probably already been said but,

auto iso, aperture priority, center single point focus, manual white point balance (done in post easily enough). I would use the zoom lens because it gives you a lot more range, if you are worried about CA because it is not as good as the 50mm, I would just make sure to stop it down from wide open.

also, re: the comment about slow sync flash, i would make sure that you get all of the shots you need to first really crisp, then start playing around with the flash (may be obvious...).

as far as how to shoot, try to make sure you don't take all your photos from eye level.... try getting lower or higher to create interesting perspectives.

- Mike

Mike

The light levels wont be changing - so why would one consider auto aperture, or auto ISO ?

Even a newb should be able to get thier exposure level correct with digital cameras that have instant disply of the picture just shot and its histo

The only time I even consider Auto is for football (etc) where half of the stadia is in shadow and the rest in the sun

I nver mentioned slow synch flash you just need to blalance the flash with the ambient hopefully this might be 60th or above in a sportshall

PS I always use manual flash like 1/8 or 1/4 rather than TTL

This link should go to the right part of my site for some examples - mainly flashed..

S
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 03:43:54 am by Morgan_Moore »
Logged
Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

mike.online

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 207
    • http://mikedotonline.blogspot.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 12:00:30 pm »

I would use AP and Auto ISO, because it will match the lighting conditions for the DOF that I wanted. Having not covered a ton of gym sports it may not be such a problem, but its a real pain when I have everything set up as I want it to be only to find that I didn't have the ISO high enough to keep my shutter speed in check (this is without flash) and have a bunch of the action shots come out blurry.


I agree that if you are balancing ambient and flash, auto iso is not as big a deal. I would be careful though of the harshness of the flash (esp. on camera), most gyms have hiiiiigh ceilings so bounce isn't going to work.

Morgan, the link didn't work for me... however I went through a bunch or your stuff, fantastic examples there. How much of it is with controlled lighting (multiple off camera lights with modifiers)? Obviously the large scale surfing shots are not but what about the rest?

jjj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4728
    • http://www.futtfuttfuttphotography.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 02:05:27 pm »

For all the flash advice, people have missed one thing, using flash in such circumstances will either be banned or incredibly annoying to the someone trying to dodge a roundhouse kick. I have photographed at a few Martial arts event in my time and using flash would never have been tolerated. Unless it was too far away to have any effect.
The lighting [metal halide] will be horrible - make sure you shoot RAW and use a grey/white card to either set a 'correct' White balance before starting and/or make correcting shots later very easy. If you set an accurate WB with a grey/white card, you could get awaywith shooting JPEG.
Logged
Tradition is the Backbone of the Spinele

ddk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 274
    • http://www.pbase.com/ddk
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 03:09:56 pm »

Quote from: jjj
For all the flash advice, people have missed one thing, using flash in such circumstances will either be banned or incredibly annoying to the someone trying to dodge a roundhouse kick. I have photographed at a few Martial arts event in my time and using flash would never have been tolerated. Unless it was too far away to have any effect.
The lighting [metal halide] will be horrible - make sure you shoot RAW and use a grey/white card to either set a 'correct' White balance before starting and/or make correcting shots later very easy. If you set an accurate WB with a grey/white card, you could get awaywith shooting JPEG.

I don't know wether part of this thread is missing or this is an identical one started by the OP, but as far as flash is concerned, I remember full well that it was allowed when I used to attend the tournaments. There was no such thing as iso 800, 1600, or 2400 film in those days and you just couldn't shoot this kind of thing without some type of flash successfully. Even these days not every camera is a D700 or D3 either and even then, unless one is happy with flat images with horrible color, shooting action shots under the described conditions requires strobes!
Logged
david
-----------------------
www.pbase.com/ddk

Morgan_Moore

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2356
    • sammorganmoore.com
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2009, 03:38:27 am »

Quote from: mike.online
I would use AP and Auto ISO, because it will match the lighting conditions for the DOF that I wanted.

Morgan, the link didn't work for me... however I went through a bunch or your stuff, fantastic examples there. How much of it is with controlled lighting (multiple off camera lights with modifiers)? Obviously the large scale surfing shots are not but what about the rest?

I just dont use auto anything (apart from AF -which often doesn NOT work for my sports images which are mostly manual focus !) .. maybe its just me

In the 'sport' section of my website most of the images have flash notably the runner, diver pop out, canoeist, kiddy chucking surfboard, the martial arts boy - you can even see it in the cliff jumper

Mainly bare QFlashes or Elinchrom 500 + Tronix Power, PocketWizards and all the toys - oh and I have a Hassy H1 that synchs at 800th shutter - the dream for movement freezing with flash

the subtlest flash is the handsome boy on the beach - bouced elly bounced off a $10 sun lounger brolly

Trouble is that is not 'newb' kit and not really required for DSLRs - the H1 is 25 ISO and needs powerful flashes !

I would encourage all learning photography to get a grip of on camera flash mixed with ambient light by experimenting with manual settings

A sports hall is kind of perfect for such because the low ambient can be overridden/balanced without the megabucks kit and the size of the hall should mean there are no horrid shadows

I think people try bare flash in thier living room at home - get some horrible shadows and then go out and spend on all sorts of modifiers or just never use flash again - there is so much more to regular on camera flash to be discovered

The attached image is just good old bare on camera flash nicely balanced with the ambient..

S
« Last Edit: March 12, 2009, 03:45:56 am by Morgan_Moore »
Logged
Sam Morgan Moore Bristol UK

Derry

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
    • http://
Tae Kwondo Photo HELP!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 01:03:55 pm »

I have shot the grandkids indoor sports events now for several years (volleyball and basketball) and the lighting has been from decent to dismal,,

most all the school and church gyms I shoot them in do not like to have constant strobe firings so they ask you not to use as it upsets many parents and they feel it can distract the players also,,

my main gear is an Olympus E3 and an Oly 35-100 f2 lens,, is f2 through the full zoom range,,  

I arrive 30 minutes early as there is normally another game in process allowing me time for proper set up,,

my basic set up steps are

1. use Colorright WB tool to set WB  (tried grey cards and kelvin adjustment and find the Colorright works best for me)
2. set camera ISO to auto between 100 - 1600
3. set speed to 1/320  (most parents do not care for movement in their child's shots)
4. set the camera to A priority and take 15 to 20 photos and see what the average f stop is from my know shooting locations
5. set the camera in M mode and adjust the f stop to the average from the prior step and add about -1/3 ev to that setting
6. mount my monopod to the lens foot and wait for the game to begin

I always try for the highest f stop I can afford for the DOF help,,

usually shoot 400+ frames a game and find the above settings affords my best keeper rate and the lowest amount of PP time,,

Derry
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up