p25 + afd or 5d mk2?

[geronimo13]

Hi!

I currently use the 1Ds Mark II and looking to upgrade.

I've been looking at the 5d mk2 but also  been offered a used p25 with a mamiya afd.


I know theese two are complete diffrent system.

I shoot studio fashion/on location fashion and weddings. Some portraits aswell.

How will the 5d compare to the p25 in studio?

Is the p25 good at iso 100? what about iso 200 and 400?

Should i keep the 1dsmk2 and get the p25 or should i get the 5dmk2?

Any tips.

[clawery]

Hi!

I currently use the 1Ds Mark II and looking to upgrade.

I've been looking at the 5d mk2 but also  been offered a used p25 with a mamiya afd.


I know theese two are complete diffrent system.

I shoot studio fashion/on location fashion and weddings. Some portraits aswell.

How will the 5d compare to the p25 in studio?

Is the p25 good at iso 100? what about iso 200 and 400?

Should i keep the 1dsmk2 and get the p25 or should i get the 5dmk2?

Any tips.

The P25 and P25+ are both great backs, but may not be perfectly suited for your needs.  The P25/P25+ is better suited if you are not photographing fabrics that may have patterns, moire may pop up.  The Capture One software does have a tool to aid in getting rid of it, but with wedding dresses and some suits it may still be an issue.  I might recommend going with a P30 or P30+.  The microlenses slightly refract the light coming into the sensor to prevent moire.  Also the P30 has a larger file size compared to the P25 (P25=22MP / P30=31MP).

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
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[Guy Mancuso]

The P25 and P25+ are both great backs, but may not be perfectly suited for your needs.  The P25/P25+ is better suited if you are not photographing fabrics that may have patterns, moire may pop up.  The Capture One software does have a tool to aid in getting rid of it, but with wedding dresses and some suits it may still be an issue.  I might recommend going with a P30 or P30+.  The microlenses slightly refract the light coming into the sensor to prevent moire.  Also the P30 has a larger file size compared to the P25 (P25=22MP / P30=31MP).

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
chris@captureintegration.com
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National
404-234-5195 | Cell  
Sign up for our Newsletter | Read Our Latest Newsletter

 I have to agree with Chris since i do shoot the P25 Plus out of all there backs it may have the most moire and it did come up worse in a test with the P45 plus and the P65 Plus backs that the P25 plus showed more moire in a roof pattern and i have run into shooting portraits with fabric and such. Don't get me wrong i absolutely love the P25 plus but if there is anything to swaying my vote if i was a wedding shooter or fabric shooter full time than i would have certainly went with the P30 plus since it does seem to minimize the effect more so than the P25 plus or even went with a P45 plus but if you are a wedding shooter that extra stop of ISO maybe the biggest benefit. I tested the P25 plus and P30 Plus backs out for several days and I was very torn on exactly which one was better for me. I knew i would be using a tech camera so it did make it easier since the P30 plus is not really recommended for tech camera's. Either one they both are great backs. Matter of picking which one works the best for what you do. I do agree also the tool for Moire in C1 is a nice bonus for when it does come up I can tackle it with ease.
I know there is much banter between DSLR and MF and seriously i shot almost every DSLR out there and MF is in another completely different ballpark IMHO. Most folks have both for different needs and it depends on what you do and how much needs you really have.

[geronimo13]

I have to agree with Chris since i do shoot the P25 Plus out of all there backs it may have the most moire and it did come up worse in a test with the P45 plus and the P65 Plus backs that the P25 plus showed more moire in a roof pattern and i have run into shooting portraits with fabric and such. Don't get me wrong i absolutely love the P25 plus but if there is anything to swaying my vote if i was a wedding shooter or fabric shooter full time than i would have certainly went with the P30 plus since it does seem to minimize the effect more so than the P25 plus or even went with a P45 plus but if you are a wedding shooter that extra stop of ISO maybe the biggest benefit. I tested the P25 plus and P30 Plus backs out for several days and I was very torn on exactly which one was better for me. I knew i would be using a tech camera so it did make it easier since the P30 plus is not really recommended for tech camera's. Either one they both are great backs. Matter of picking which one works the best for what you do. I do agree also the tool for Moire in C1 is a nice bonus for when it does come up I can tackle it with ease.
I know there is much banter between DSLR and MF and seriously i shot almost every DSLR out there and MF is in another completely different ballpark IMHO. Most folks have both for different needs and it depends on what you do and how much needs you really have.

Okej thank you.

what about the p21?

Anyone got anything to say about the 5d?

[Guy Mancuso]

P21 Plus is the same basic sensor as the 25 (9 micron)with a crop though and it does have micro lenses. Shooting time is .8 compared to 1.5 and it is 18 mpx. Chris maybe has some more on it but from what i have seen image wise , no slouch at all. Also easy money wise to get in

P 21+

Imaging technology
CCD: Less than full frame CCD
Lens Factor: 1.3
Resolution: 18 mega pixels
Active pixels: 4904 x 3678 pixels
CCD size effective: 44.2 x 33.1 mm
Pixel size: 9 x 9
Image ratio: 4:3
Microlens on CCD: Yes
Antiblooming: 10 f-stops
Dynamic range: 12 f-stops

Storage files
Phase Ones IIQ RAW file format speeds up the image capture and file transfer. Increases the storage capacity by turning the full 16 bit image data into a compact RAW file format. The default IIQ RAW-large format is completely lossless.
llQ small: 13 MB
llQ large: 20 MB

Output files
Color depth: 16 bit per color
Image file formats: TIFF-RGB, TIFF-CMYK, JPEG
Color management: RGB, Embedded ICC profile, CMYK

Sensitivity
ISO: 100, 200, 400, 800

Camera system
Capture time: up to 0.8 sec./frame (depending on camera body)
Storage security: Phase One 3S technology - Secure Storage System
Battery type: 7.2 V Lithium Ion 2500mAh
Battery lifetime: 5000 captures/4 hours
Exposure time: 1/10,000 sec. up to 1 hour with XPose+ technology
Live preview: Yes
IR filter: Mounted on CCD
Cooling system: Passive cooling and sleeping architecture
Power up time: Less than 2 sec.
Power: 8-33 V DC (from FireWire®)

LCD screen
Size: 2.2"
Resolution: 230,400 pixels
Viewing angle: 160º

Models of P+ back
Phase One H101: Hasselblad H1 and H2
Hasselblad V: Hasselblad 555ELD, 533ELX, 503CW and 501CM
Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 Pro II
Mamiya 645: Mamiya 645AFD, 645AFDII, RZ67 Pro IID
Contax 645: Contax 645AF

[terence_patrick]

If the P25 has moire problems, I would imagine the Canons to be even worse. I recently shot an editorial portrait where the subject was wearing a suit with a micro-plaid pattern and the moire was horrible from the 5D. Ended up shooting film and it was perfect on that end.

[geronimo13]

If the P25 has moire problems, I would imagine the Canons to be even worse. I recently shot an editorial portrait where the subject was wearing a suit with a micro-plaid pattern and the moire was horrible from the 5D. Ended up shooting film and it was perfect on that end.

New or old 5d?

[John_Black]

A P25 v 5D moire comparison from a ways back -

[geronimo13]

A P25 v 5D moire comparison from a ways back -

Can't see any moire on the tods bag with the 5d the p25 in other hand has serios probs

[Snook]

P30 NON + here and I get LOT's of Moire in the studio!
I shoot a lot of catalogue and NEVER had moire with my 1DsMII.
But have had MANY bad moire shots with the P30..
Many of which were close to impossible to get rid of the Pattern.
Plus the stupid PhaseOne moire plug in is a JOKE!. Works But not on a layer and Not in 16 bit and NOT with CS4 and I you have to use it in ROSETTA!
Complete Joke.
Have not tried the new 4.6.1 moire plugin much, But not sure if it is any better??
You still have to run 2 copies and layer them as it screws up most skin tones close to the problem smearing the skintones into the clothing and ViceVersa... Again have not tried 4.6 really that much to comment one way or the other about it.
Which also many times there is still a pattern left behind anyways..
Just thought you might want another realistic opinion from a frequent shooter of fabrics *On people that is...:+}

Snook

PS I just shot a huge campaign for EverLast and almost ALL the sweatsuits which are not even like typical weaved moire problem material had HORRIBLE MOIRE in them.. 14 images had to be worked quite extensively..

[BernardLanguillier]

Have not tried the new 4.6.1 moire plugin much, But not sure if it is any better??

Out of curiosity, I tried applying the 4.6 moire reduction filter on a D3x file (that didn't show any moire), and there was a clear softening of the file. Now, it is unclear what amount you would have to apply to get useful results with backs, low amounts only result in very reasonnable softening.

The question though, what is the point of shooting with a AA filter less device if you need to apply some softening to the file in post to get rid of moire?

Cheers,
Bernard

[thsinar]

hi Bernard,

I guess the point is that the AA filter is always there and alway softening all files, even when not needed, in the contrary to a MFDB. Also, with MFDB it is then possible to apply local anti-Moiré filtering, thus not affecting the whole image.

Best regards,
Thierry

The question though, what is the point of shooting with a AA filter less device if you need to apply some softening to the file in post to get rid of moire?

Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

hi Bernard,

I guess the point is that the AA filter is always there and alway softening all files, even when not needed, in the contrary to a MFDB. Also, with MFDB it is then possible to apply local anti-Moiré filtering, thus not affecting the whole image.

Thierry,

That's indeed a valid point generally speaking, but for a person shooting fabric a lot?...

Cheers,
Bernard

[DavidP]

I don't know what it is about the P25, maybe the frequency of the lines in the sensor just seem to line up with fabric a lot. I used to always get moire with any kind of shirt or knit fabric that people were wearing.  I was spending so much time fixing things, I upgraded to the 45+ and never or almost never have the problem anymore. If it does show up it is very very fine and almost does not matter.

[geronimo13]

I don't know what it is about the P25, maybe the frequency of the lines in the sensor just seem to line up with fabric a lot. I used to always get moire with any kind of shirt or knit fabric that people were wearing.  I was spending so much time fixing things, I upgraded to the 45+ and never or almost never have the problem anymore. If it does show up it is very very fine and almost does not matter.

What about the h3d22?

[Yanick Dery]

Hi!

I currently use the 1Ds Mark II and looking to upgrade.

I've been looking at the 5d mk2 but also  been offered a used p25 with a mamiya afd.


I know theese two are complete diffrent system.

I shoot studio fashion/on location fashion and weddings. Some portraits aswell.

How will the 5d compare to the p25 in studio?

Is the p25 good at iso 100? what about iso 200 and 400?

Should i keep the 1dsmk2 and get the p25 or should i get the 5dmk2?

Any tips.

Go for the 5D mark II (buy 2    )

It is fast, very fast compare to P25
Almost as much details than the P25
Great autofocus
Great LCD for on location shoot.
Better movie option than P25 ;-)

Most important

Do you think your client will be ready to pay you more if you have a bigger camera?
How many system do you want to carry with you?

P25 will give you 16 bit vs 14
... Well, I am still searching for other advantage...

I am shoothing with 1ds III and love it.

I did a shoot with P25+ once and H3D 39II

The Hasselblad was great, but didn't like p25.

You can see my website, it is all done with Canon gear.

I don't say that it is a perfect camera, but it is good enough for me to shoot bill boards, bus shultters etc...

Try it in real world situation, that is the key.

Good luck!



Yanick

http://www.yanickdery.com

[thsinar]

Only one answer for me, Bernard: multishot.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thierry,

That's indeed a valid point generally speaking, but for a person shooting fabric a lot?...

Cheers,
Bernard

[dwdmguy]

I can't speak to the "P" back but for your type of photography you may want to consider the shutter lag with the AFD systems. I can't see how this can be of any benefit. in fact, I shoot portrait and Landscape and it hurts... so, just an FYI.
Good Luck.

[Jonathan H]

Go for the 5D mark II (buy 2    )

It is fast, very fast compare to P25
Almost as much details than the P25
Great autofocus
Great LCD for on location shoot.
Better movie option than P25 ;-)

Most important

Do you think your client will be ready to pay you more if you have a bigger camera?
How many system do you want to carry with you?

P25 will give you 16 bit vs 14
... Well, I am still searching for other advantage...

I am shoothing with 1ds III and love it.

I did a shoot with P25+ once and H3D 39II

The Hasselblad was great, but didn't like p25.

You can see my website, it is all done with Canon gear.

I don't say that it is a perfect camera, but it is good enough for me to shoot bill boards, bus shultters etc...

Try it in real world situation, that is the key.

Good luck!



Yanick

http://www.yanickdery.com

Sorry to take this off topic, but Yanick your website and your work is absolutely beautiful.  I'd love to meet you next time I am in Montreal!