Big Three Shootout

[bjanes]

Micheal,

Thanks for the Big Three Shootout analysis. Taking into account the caveats you mentioned, I think the analysis is well done, but as you predicted there are nitpickers as demonstrated by this Thread on the DPReview Nikon forum. Presumably, these protesters are more displeased with your results than the methodology.

One factor of interest is the markedly different metering of the scene that you observed. Was this due to calibration of the camera light meters, as would be shown by comparison with readings from a calibrated light meter, or from differences in the rendering of the raw data by the in camera conversion or ACR conversion? As rendered by ACR, the images appear equally exposed, which is not surprising, since the exposures in terms of f/stop and shutter speed were equal.

As you probably know, ACR applies a baseline exposure compensation for each camera (Eric Chan). For the D3, D300 and other recent Nikon cameras, this baseline compensation is +0.5 EV and I would expect that this value would be the same for the D3x. Thus, when an image is fully exposed to the right with a D3, the histogram will appear blown in ACR, and one can get a better idea of the status of the raw file channels by using an exposure compensation of -0.5 EV in ACR. I do not know what the baseline exposure of the other two cameras might be. It would be interesting to look at the raw files to determine how far to the right the various images are exposed. Could you look into this, or better yet, post these raw files?

Thanks,

Bill

[michael]

Bill, as I stated in he article all frames at all ISOs with all three cameras were were shot at the same shutter seed and f stop.

I found that the cameras metered very differently, but when reading a common area in spot mode their readings were essentially identical. It's the matrix metering integration that differs markedly.

Yes, I'm aware of several discussion on DPreview about the test. I try and avoid visiting those forums because they  are generally known to cause mild insanity and facial warts in some people.

I think that you've hit the nail on the head, their particular horse didn't come in first therefore their has to be something wrong with the track, err, test.

Michael

[NikosR]

Michael,

Thank you for the presentation. You're right about Nikon being a bit silly not allowing MLU to be used in tandem with self timer. However a Nikon 10-pin cable release in not too a expensive a gadget to get, although I'll admit it is a hassle to screw on. At least, on the latest models, you don't get to loose the socket cap. Cable release and MLU is the preferred method anyway since you have control over the timing of the shot.

However, if you find yourself in a similar situation without a cable release again, I would recommend using the self timer together with the 1 second delay function. This introduces a 1 sec delay between mirror-up and shutter release which, on a good tripod setup, should be sufficient for the mirror vibrations to die out, if we trust Nikon's claims about the mirror dampening.

This is a much better option than the mirror-up and finger on the shutter release alternative. Finger on the shutter, if one is not using the self timer, is a no-no in my book for exposures in the dangerous 1/15 to 1 sec range. Next time you have the chance, try it and see for yourself.

[NikosR]

As you probably know, ACR applies a baseline exposure compensation for each camera (Eric Chan).

Bill,

Could you please give the correct link to Eric Chan's quote?

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The Minolta/Sony solution where the two second self timer also does MLU is a pretty good solution for landscape work. A feature Nikon probably could/should copy.

Erik

Michael,

Thank you for the presentation. You're right about Nikon being a bit silly not allowing MLU to be used in tandem with self timer. However a Nikon 10-pin cable release in not too a expensive a gadget to get, although I'll admit it is a hassle to screw on. At least, on the latest models, you don't get to loose the socket cap. Cable release and MLU is the preferred method anyway since you have control over the timing of the shot.

However, if you find yourself in a similar situation without a cable release again, I would recommend using the self timer together with the 1 second delay function. This introduces a 1 sec delay between mirror-up and shutter release which, on a good tripod setup, should be sufficient for the mirror vibrations to die out, if we trust Nikon's claims about the mirror dampening.

This is a much better option than the mirror-up and finger on the shutter release alternative. Finger on the shutter, if one is not using the self timer, is a no-no in my book for exposures in the dangerous 1/15 to 1 sec range. Next time you have the chance, try it and see for yourself.

[NikosR]

Hi,

The Minolta/Sony solution where the two second self timer also does MLU is a pretty good solution for landscape work. A feature Nikon probably could/should copy.

Erik

The only effective difference between this and what I'm suggesting is that in the Sony solution the mirror is raised up 2 secs rather than 1 sec before shutter release. Different vibration dampening characteristics between the two cameras prohibit any unsubstantiated speculation about which is best.

For max. flexibility MLU and self timer should be independently selectable.

[bjanes]

Bill,

Could you please give the correct link to Eric Chan's quote?

Sorry, Here is the correct link:

MadmanChan

[bjanes]

Michael,

Thank you for the presentation. You're right about Nikon being a bit silly not allowing MLU to be used in tandem with self timer. However a Nikon 10-pin cable release in not too a expensive a gadget to get, although I'll admit it is a hassle to screw on. At least, on the latest models, you don't get to loose the socket cap. Cable release and MLU is the preferred method anyway since you have control over the timing of the shot.

However, if you find yourself in a similar situation without a cable release again, I would recommend using the self timer together with the 1 second delay function. This introduces a 1 sec delay between mirror-up and shutter release which, on a good tripod setup, should be sufficient for the mirror vibrations to die out, if we trust Nikon's claims about the mirror dampening.

This is a much better option than the mirror-up and finger on the shutter release alternative. Finger on the shutter, if one is not using the self timer, is a no-no in my book for exposures in the dangerous 1/15 to 1 sec range. Next time you have the chance, try it and see for yourself.

Another method, at least with the D3, is to select the mirror up mode and raise the mirror by pressing the shutter release. Another press of the shutter release will take the picture. If no operation is performed for 30 sec, a picture will be taken automatically (page 105 of the manual). This is rather awkward if you are taking multiple shots.

Bill

[pedro.silva]

i'll add my thanx for the comparo.

Another method, at least with the D3, is to select the mirror up mode and raise the mirror by pressing the shutter release. Another press of the shutter release will take the picture. If no operation is performed for 30 sec, a picture will be taken automatically (page 105 of the manual). This is rather awkward if you are taking multiple shots.
Bill

try shooting an hdr panorama (or high resolution mosaic) this way, and "awkward" doesn't begin to cover it.  i don't know whether it is a patent problem, or just plain stubborness on nikon's part, but their current implementations of "mirror up" just plain suck!

cheers,
pedro

[NikosR]

i'll add my thanx for the comparo.



try shooting an hdr panorama (or high resolution mosaic) this way, and "awkward" doesn't begin to cover it.  i don't know whether it is a patent problem, or just plain stubborness on nikon's part, but their current implementations of "mirror up" just plain suck!

cheers,
pedro

You have a high end Nikon dSLR, you get into the trouble of setting up the gear to shoot a panorama and you can't be bothered to get / use a cable release?

[Dan Vincent]

The only effective difference between this and what I'm suggesting is that in the Sony solution the mirror is raised up 2 secs rather than 1 sec before shutter release. Different vibration dampening characteristics between the two cameras prohibit any unsubstantiated speculation about which is best.

For max. flexibility MLU and self timer should be independently selectable.

Aside from the 2s self timer with lockup which we all know and love, the a900 has a separate MLU drive mode. So it has the best of both worlds.

[pedro.silva]

You have a high end Nikon dSLR, you get into the trouble of setting up the gear to shoot a panorama and you can't be bothered to get / use a cable release?

i never said anything about having / using cable releases.  
for the record, i do own a cable release and always use it when shooting panoramas.
regardless, i stand by my comment: the current nikon implementations of "mirror up" just plain suck.

[JeffKohn]

i never said anything about having / using cable releases.  
for the record, i do own a cable release and always use it when shooting panoramas.
regardless, i stand by my comment: the current nikon implementations of "mirror up" just plain suck.

Your comment was about using MLU with the 30-second timeout in lieu of timer mode. Kind of a straw-man argument if you always use a cable release, since it doesn't matter. If anything, my only complaint about Nikon's implementation is the 30-second timeout, which can be annoying if you're waiting for a breeze to die down and end up taking an accidental exposure in the middle of a bracketing sequence.