Hyperdrive, nexto, backup

[OldRoy]

I was interested to read the article about the new Hyperdrive. I'm planning a trip to the Caucasus next spring and backup is much on my mind. At home I can carry a laptop in my car; the thought of lugging one on hill trails gives me the horrors - I have more than enough to carry as it is.

My static backup strategy is always to have backup duplicated (at least). So my thought about these portable drive/display units is how do you back them up? My own requirement would be that you could simply connect them (even USB would be OK) to an external USB-powered HD and duplicate the content. Obviously I'd expect to do this with the storage device on a mains power supply since it may be a tall order to power two devices off the internal battery/ps. If this isn't possible - and I doubt that it is, as nothing ever seems to be  designed incorporatinga full set of real-world requirements - one would have to use a PC back at "base" for the transfer, an operational overhead which would seem to me to entirely negate these devices' usefullness. Why not simply carry two HD's and a card reader? A lot cheaper.

It seems to me that as with cameras, these peripherals are intentionally designed to enable replacement sales when the requisite functionality (or some of it...) is incorporated in the next release. A single "backup" copy ain't a backup if it's the only location of the files. One may as well spend a lot of money on many CF cards and only risk the loss of a proportion of the data in the case of loss or theft of a single card. Not absolutely safe, but fairly; cards are small and robust, and dropping in price.

I'd be interested to hear how other people deal with this. I'd also be interested to hear how many people have experienced failure of nexto and Hyperdrive units and users' relative satisfaction with them. Clearly the robustness and MTBF figures for the specific hard drives incorporated has got to be a factor too. Another question is how easy is it to remove the drives from these units. If it's really easy and the drive housing enclosure's well designed, using a number of smaller capacity HD's, switching them and leaving them in a safe, static location, might offer a degree of insurance against total loss.

I found a few threads here covering elements of these questions but I hope that posing them again isn't a waste of time. The introduction of the Hyperdrive UDMA would seem to be an opportune moment. BTW I have no intention of buying two of them!

[feppe]

I use two HyperDrive SPACEs, and just pop in a memory card into each, creating duplicate copies. While traveling I keep them in separate places, one in pocket, other in carry-on. I don't have a need for a screen, but the newer versions seem otherwise just as robust and probably even faster.

SPACE drive can be changed by yourself in two minutes, probably just as easy with the newer versions. The problem going that route is the drives are not protected, so you need some kind of enclosure - which would be another HyperDrive. Or if you're brave you can try an anti-static plastic pouch the drives come in.

[OldRoy]

I use two HyperDrive SPACEs, and just pop in a memory card into each, creating duplicate copies. While traveling I keep them in separate places, one in pocket, other in carry-on. I don't have a need for a screen, but the newer versions seem otherwise just as robust and probably even faster.

SPACE drive can be changed by yourself in two minutes, probably just as easy with the newer versions. The problem going that route is the drives are not protected, so you need some kind of enclosure - which would be another HyperDrive. Or if you're brave you can try an anti-static plastic pouch the drives come in.

Thanks Feppe.
I just hate the idea of having to buy duplicates! In fact I think I just wouldn't do it unless I was earning sufficiently to absorb the cost - in which case there'd be no problem. There's something very irritating about having to buy a duplicate device just to duplicate the storage element.
Roy

[new_haven]

I purchased a nexto extreme (unit only) from mydigitaldiscount.com a few months ago and installed my own hard drive. Installing the hard drive was trivial, however, I would not buy an extra drive and swap it out to perform a second backup. You would run the risk of damaging a pin on the hard drive connector or damage from electromagnetic discharge.

I believe you can connect an external hard drive to the nexto using the usb otg port. Both devices would then run from the battery in the nexto (not sure about this at all). You can probably verify this by emailing either nexto or mydigitaldiscount, or reading some of the other discussion forums.

On my last trip I did not fill up all my memory cards and was able to maintain one copy on the cards and one on the nexto. This method is probably the best for me as it eliminates the need to carry another nexto or external hard drive.

I like mine a lot.

[OldRoy]

I purchased a nexto extreme (unit only) from mydigitaldiscount.com a few months ago and installed my own hard drive. Installing the hard drive was trivial, however, I would not buy an extra drive and swap it out to perform a second backup. You would run the risk of damaging a pin on the hard drive connector or damage from electromagnetic discharge.

I believe you can connect an external hard drive to the nexto using the usb otg port. Both devices would then run from the battery in the nexto (not sure about this at all). You can probably verify this by emailing either nexto or mydigitaldiscount, or reading some of the other discussion forums.

On my last trip I did not fill up all my memory cards and was able to maintain one copy on the cards and one on the nexto. This method is probably the best for me as it eliminates the need to carry another nexto or external hard drive.

I like mine a lot.

Thanks - I'll investigate this because if I can carry a second ext 2.5" drive and copy directly to it, that would be a great solution. To do this it would obviously need something written into the OS. I'll mail the distributors and ask. If it is possible I'd say it's ideal, apart from the limited viewing and editing possibilities compared to the new Hyperdrive. I take your point about carrying lots of cards though: it's clearly a good idea  - but how manyare needed  for shooting RAWs over 4 weeks at a once in a lifetime location?
Thanks
Roy
EDIT. I just took a look at the Nexto forums.

http://www.nextodi.com/en/support/en_qna.php?page=1

There are a few bugs and oddities it seems. There appears to be the possibility of backing the device up to an external HD providing it is formatted as FAT32, however there is also clearly some degree of sensitivity to HD makes and models, both internally and externally. I also noted that some people are complaining of extremely slow transfer rates for NEFs (and presumably other RAW formats) plus erroneous "disk full" messages resulting (I think) from timeouts on large drives. Has anyone got any experience of any of these issues?

[OldRoy]

OK, I have corresponded with Nexto in Korea (helpful, quick replies). You can back up to an external HD from the nexto. They are ambivalent about whether the ND2700 (current model) can supply sufficient power off its batteries to self-power an external HD. The exact text of the message as follows:

"The USB Host Port can maximum supply the 500mA to the USB device.
To operate the HDD needs more than 500mA.
So Generally the external HDD have a power source as a A.C. to D.C power adaptor.
Don’t you have the power adapter for a external HDD USB device?
Anyway, if your external HDD have no power adapter, you can be supplied from the ND2700."

Which is, I believe, called "having one's cake and eating it"

BTW I'm surprised this thread hasn't received more input. I've not had a great need for this sort of backup to date, however it's been something I have wanted, rather than needed, for quite a while: now I need it.

Roy

[new_haven]

Take a look at this post:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=29991511

It looks like you may need a powered external hard drive to work properly.

[OldRoy]

Take a look at this post:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=29991511

It looks like you may need a powered external hard drive to work properly.

New Haven
thanks for the pointer. The dpreview thread is very useful if a bit disturbing - in the sense that the nexto units are obviously picky about what kind of drive they're connected to. OTOH the op in that thread had a drive containing a PATA device - and I'd have thought that a more current SATA unit would have given a head start.
But it makes very clear that whatever Mr. Nexto says, the Nexto 2700 is unlikely, to put it mildly, to power an external drive on its own. And of course most of the compact 2.5" drives are exclusively usb powered. It would be handy if a supplier would say, yes this drive and enclosure will do the trick. But no-one wants to be specific - the US supplier of nextos I contacted with the question hasn't bothered to reply. Not a good sign I'd say. But I'll persist in investigating. I don't need the unit before some time in march so I can dig around a bit more.

Roy

[DavidB]

For card backups in the field away from computers I have two units.  One a Nexto ND2700, and one a Vosonic VP5700.  The VP5700 is a lot slower than the ND2700, but it has a screen.  Given a choice if I was buying units now I'd probably get a Hyperdrive UDMA to go with the ND2700.
On a recent trip through Laos (without a laptop) I backed up each card to both units at the end of the day.  I used the VP5700 to show people some of the shots from earlier days.

On other trips where I have a laptop, I'll usually back up to one (the Nexto) and use the computer to synchronise to the other.  I can fall back to the above system (duplicate backups) in the event that my laptop dies.
If I'm in the field shooting lots of action during the day (with the laptop back at base) I sometimes carry the ND2700 for in-field backups, but still try to have enough flash so I don't need to re-use cards before I get back to base and do the backups.

[Roy]

I'm sceptical about the idea of two backup copies on hard drive, but my needs may be different.

If travelling "heavy" and can take lots of gear, I take a laptop computer and an external drive for backup. That gives two copies and lets me reuse my memory cards. The heavy kit camera uses CF cards and fast UDMA cards still aren't cheap so it is good to be able to reuse them.

If travelling light, (often everything in a backpack) I take no computer and one Hyperdrive. However, my lightweight travel camera (D90 or lately a G1) uses SD cards, so I take enough cards for what I expect to shoot. I don't reuse cards on a trip and they become the primary copy. The backup on the Hyperdrive is a true backup as the original is on the card.

SD cards are inexpensive, reliable, tiny, and weightless.

Why take a second disk?

[OldRoy]

I'm sceptical about the idea of two backup copies on hard drive, but my needs may be different.


SD cards are inexpensive, reliable, tiny, and weightless.

Why take a second disk?

I'm expecting to be travelling for about a month in locations where I'd like to be independent of local resources (availability of serviceable computers for backup to whatever formats). I shoot a lot of VR panoramas which also frequently need a set of exposures for HDR (building interiors) so a single "scene" may entail 70+ shots (NEF plus JPEG). This rapidly fills a lot of space. I don't wish to have to ever think twice about whether or not to shoot (ignoring for the moment the benefits of "disciplined" shooting!) I haven't done the sums but I imagine that my expenditure on an adequate supply of fast CF cards (not SDs, fwiw) to cover the entire trip would probably cost more than the airfare. This assumes that they are backed up to a single external device, which I'd still need to buy. My existing laptop is getting on in years and its battery life has always been abysmal, so that's out.

The Nexto, or Hyperdrive or whatever is an adequate substitute for a laptop or notebook and a lot smaller and cheaper; but it's still only a single copy of the data, given that I start to re-use cards after a while. HDs are cheap! So the obvious solution - or so it seems to me - is to store the files on the portable device and back them up to a cheap external drive - exactly as I'd do with a laptop/notebook. This seems such an obvious and nearly ubiquitous requirement that I'm amazed that one of the portable storage manufacturers doesn't put in a bigger power supply capable of driving a USB-powered HD, and advertise the facility as a USP (couldn't resist that one...) I'd buy such a device straight away. If I still had a hardware design and manufacturing business (RIP in the late 80's "recession") I'd probably get one on the market myself.

Where does my analysis fall down?

Roy

[Roy]

Where does my analysis fall down?

Roy

For your needs, a second drive makes sense.

Power for the external drive should not be an obstacle. The external drives I have seen need 5 volt power and use the same power connector you find on a Nexto or Hyperdrive charger. It should be possible to run the Nexto on battery while using the Nexto charger to power the external drive during a transfer. You would not need to carry an extra power supply for the external drive.

Check that the polarity of the charger and drive match: the centre pin of the connector is normally positive. You should be able to confirm this with Nexto.