View Camera Guys: what shutter system for your digital back?

Copal mechanical shutter

24 (49%)

Copal Press shutter, selfcocking

4 (8.2%)

Prontor self cocking

3 (6.1%)

Schneider shutter, USB unit

1 (2%)

Schneider shutter, with Remote ES

2 (4.1%)

Rollei electronic shutter

9 (18.4%)

Sinar Auto Aperture Shutter, DB mount lenses

3 (6.1%)

Sinar Electronic Aperture Control (CAB)

1 (2%)

Sinar Sinaron Digital CMV

2 (4.1%)

other

0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 37

[ctz]

Ok, we had some polls regarding our digital backs.
As I think some informations about view cameras are hard to find (and especially about shutter systems) I guess this kind of poll might be interesting for some.

Here I am, using Sinar P2 with P45+, 90% for product shots, table top and still life.
Copal mechanical shutters.

Sometimes I would want to have the posibility to operate the shutter from the distance, for example, but i find the electr(on)ic systems to be in their (prolonged) infancy, being pretty awkward to operate.

Other views welcomed.

C.Tz.

[photosoph]

As mentioned in the thread http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=29231 I do have problems syncing my Aptus 22 with Copal Press shutters. In the studio I use the Sinar Copal shutter with DB lenses which works fine.
gunter

[Zachary Goulko]

Ok, we had some polls regarding our digital backs.
As I think some informations about view cameras are hard to find (and especially about shutter systems) I guess this kind of poll might be interesting for some.

Here I am, using Sinar P2 with P45+, 90% for product shots, table top and still life.
Copal mechanical shutters.

Sometimes I would want to have the posibility to operate the shutter from the distance, for example, but i find the electr(on)ic systems to be in their (prolonged) infancy, being pretty awkward to operate.

Other views welcomed.

C.Tz.

I have just posted a very similar thread, about a day ago, and am trying to find out more info on the subject myself.

The information on electronic shutters is very limited on the web, and after doing some extensive searching I have still yet to find any real details.

I just got off the phone with Rick at Leaf tech support, and it appears that Leaf Capture only supports 2 shutter systems, the Schneider and the Rollei. The Schneider only goes up to 1/60th of a sec, which is doesnt cut it for me. There is lots of ambient light in my studio, and I usually shoot at 1/250th with strobes.

As far as the Rollei system goes, there is no information about it on their website. In fact their website doesn't even have a USA version, unless I just couldn't find it.

Rick wasn't able to give me the model name of the Rollei system, however he mentioned it was silver-grey colored. The only one I came across is the Lens Control S, at B&H, and it appears to be the exact same control as for the Schneider, and it's white.

Perhaps someone with hands on experience can shed some light on the subject?

[GregShapps]

Prontor Pro & Copal Press for me.  

I looked into both the Schneider & Rollei electronic shutter systems a few years ago when there were threads stating that Prontor Pro shutters should not be used with a digital back over on RG's site.  There was so little info available on the two systems and I figured I would need at least two of the units for multiple sets and then with all the shutters needed it just seemed like a silly waste of even more money.   Yeah 1/10 of a stop accuracy  would be really nice but I don't want or need any more wires around by camera set up.

For the Copal Press shutters I also use the Prontor release box to open & fire the lens so I never have to reach in front of the lens to open it.

[Dustbak]

I am pondering over the same things. Can you decently do multishot with the copal manual shutter is one of the things which is on my mind mostly or do you really need the electronic shutter?

[E_Edwards]

As far as I know, there is only one Rollei Lens Control S for the Rollei digital shutter, and it's white plastic on the front, the back being black plastic. I have three of them and they are all the same. I have just checked the shutter speed, and with Leaf Capture and a 120 macro digitar lens I can go up to 500th, though on a camera stand we tend to shoot at 60th and f16 with Broncolor Flash. It works well, but one of mine packed up and it took something like 6 months to have it repaired from the German factory, so I had to buy a spare one.

But when I go on location abroad, I always take a spare Copal mechanical shutter just in case, these hardly ever fail

Edward

[E_Edwards]

I am pondering over the same things. Can you decently do multishot with the copal manual shutter is one of the things which is on my mind mostly or do you really need the electronic shutter?

Dusback,

The software may not let you to shoot mechanically, when I used to have the Imacon 4-shot, I had no alternative but to use the digital shutter, certainly with Flexcolor.

[ynp]

I am pondering over the same things. Can you decently do multishot with the copal manual shutter is one of the things which is on my mind mostly or do you really need the electronic shutter?

I have the same question. If members have any advice I'd appreciate it.  I have a very limited experience with copal and multishot, one day of shooting only, and we had a lot of problems!

I have a totally black room in my basement and I use it for my personal work. I do not own a p3 and we used  my friend's Sinar camera.   The camera was the modified  p2 (front standard  p2, rear standard p3, tapered bellows , copal shutter ) and my 54H. We were unable to make the back fire with the open  lens and when the lens was set on "B". We tried to fool the CaptureShot and tried to set different cameras in the hardware settings. Still I have no idea why that did not work! Somebody might be able to explain it!

At the end of the day we borrowed the Sinar-m quick adapter and put on my Sinar-m. With the lens set at "B", no sync cable to the lens, 0,5 sec flash delay on the Broncolor Grafit a2, the modelling lights switched off,  the 4 shot was ok, no success with the 16 shot mode....

Yevgeny

[klane]

I started with with copal press, but now im using the basic copals....not my first choice but they allow for longer exposures.

Thierry said that the normal shutters can be used with multishot in time or bullb mode I think.

Thierry do you care to elaborate on how this is done?

[PatrikR]

I started with with copal press, but now im using the basic copals....not my first choice but they allow for longer exposures.

Thierry said that the normal shutters can be used with multishot in time or bullb mode I think.

Thierry do you care to elaborate on how this is done?

I use a P2 with Sinar Auto Aperture shutter with my P45+. Works really well for me. And it's an open system! Shutter is from the seventies and P2 from nineties with modern lenses. Sinaron 105mm f4 is very very nice with P45+.

But I have a wish for Thierry to pass along to your marketing people. Please make Sinar catalogs/brochures like they were... Full of information and images of every item to give an idea how they are used. Like one of your brochures states that Sinar M takes third party digital backs and another states that it doesn't.

To me Sinar M looks the best system with P3 but at substantial cost. Also the cabling on some Sinar P3 setups is very troubling to me. Usually the number of cables is proportional to the number of issues.

[thsinar]

Strange, Yevgeny! It should work.

Do you mean you used a Copal "Between-the-lens" shutter, or the Sinar Copal "Behind-the-lens" shutter?
Anyway, it should work the same way.

A couple of things which might have been the problem:

- sync cable from the lens/shutter to the back: did you check/change it? Most often it is a sync/cable problem.
- did you set (I guess you did) the right "Hardware" in Captureshop: "Captureshop Menu" --->"Hardware Setup ..." ---> "Sinar 4x5" view camera" ---> "etc ..."

Best regards,
Thierry

I have the same question. If members have any advice I'd appreciate it.  I have a very limited experience with copal and multishot, one day of shooting only, and we had a lot of problems!

I have a totally black room in my basement and I use it for my personal work. I do not own a p3 and we used  my friend's Sinar camera.   The camera was the modified  p2 (front standard  p2, rear standard p3, tapered bellows , copal shutter ) and my 54H. We were unable to make the back fire with the open  lens and when the lens was set on "B". We tried to fool the CaptureShot and tried to set different cameras in the hardware settings. Still I have no idea why that did not work! Somebody might be able to explain it!

At the end of the day we borrowed the Sinar-m quick adapter and put on my Sinar-m. With the lens set at "B", no sync cable to the lens, 0,5 sec flash delay on the Broncolor Grafit a2, the modelling lights switched off,  the 4 shot was ok, no success with the 16 shot mode....

Yevgeny

[thsinar]

Dear Klane,

You can use a Sinar Copal "Behind-the -lens" shutter (Sinar Auto Shutter), or a Copal "Between-the -lens" shutter to perform a multishot. But you have to set the shutter to "B" and have completely dark studio. Connect your lens/shutter with the back (flash sync cable). Then set the "Hardware Setup" in Captureshop to the one shutter configuration you have, and release in "Slave" mode from Captureshop ("Apple" + "N" OR "Release Icon" on the top right of Captureshop in the "Toolbox". Set the appropriate "Flash Dealy" time, to leave enough time between the 4 shots for the powerpack to recycle. This will perform automatically the 4 (or 16) shots.

Best regards,
Thierry

I started with with copal press, but now im using the basic copals....not my first choice but they allow for longer exposures.

Thierry said that the normal shutters can be used with multishot in time or bullb mode I think.

Thierry do you care to elaborate on how this is done?

[thsinar]

Dear Patrick,

I will forward your request.

Thanks and best regards,
Thierry

I use a P2 with Sinar Auto Aperture shutter with my P45+. Works really well for me. And it's an open system! Shutter is from the seventies and P2 from nineties with modern lenses. Sinaron 105mm f4 is very very nice with P45+.

But I have a wish for Thierry to pass along to your marketing people. Please make Sinar catalogs/brochures like they were... Full of information and images of every item to give an idea how they are used. Like one of your brochures states that Sinar M takes third party digital backs and another states that it doesn't.

To me Sinar M looks the best system with P3 but at substantial cost. Also the cabling on some Sinar P3 setups is very troubling to me. Usually the number of cables is proportional to the number of issues.

[ynp]

Dear Thierry,
Thank you for the explanation. We used the Copal "Between-the-lens" shutter", as far as  I remember it was a Rodenstock 135mm 5.6 Apo-Sironar,  Copal No 0.
The sync cable was OK, we checked it with the Sinarback 54m and it worked. I think that I tried all the camera configurations in the Hardware setup and we used : 4 x 5-->betweenthelensshutter-->no LC Shutter. I cannot explain why the back refused to fire, even in 1 shot mode. The camera + back combo worked fine with the Sinar-M, so I am sure that it was my mistake.
Yevgeny

Strange, Yevgeny! It should work.

Do you mean you used a or the Sinar Copal "Behind-the-lens" shutter?
Anyway, it should work the same way.

A couple of things which might have been the problem:

- sync cable from the lens/shutter to the back: did you check/change it? Most often it is a sync/cable problem.
- did you set (I guess you did) the right "Hardware" in Captureshop: "Captureshop Menu" --->"Hardware Setup ..." ---> "Sinar 4x5" view camera" ---> "etc ..."

Best regards,
Thierry

[thsinar]

Dear Yevgeny,

My next question: was the back connected at all?

you can check this in the "Hardware Setup" in the bottom of the window, where it should indicate the back connected, together with the serial number, etc ...

I suspect that it was may be not connected. In this case, a first think to do is to trash the Captureshop preferences.

Best regards,
Thierry

Dear Thierry,
Thank you for the explanation. We used the Copal "Between-the-lens" shutter", as far as  I remember it was a Rodenstock 135mm 5.6 Apo-Sironar,  Copal No 0.
The sync cable was OK, we checked it with the Sinarback 54m and it worked. I think that I tried all the camera configurations in the Hardware setup and we used : 4 x 5-->betweenthelensshutter-->no LC Shutter. I cannot explain why the back refused to fire, even in 1 shot mode. The camera + back combo worked fine with the Sinar-M, so I am sure that it was my mistake.
Yevgeny

[Zachary Goulko]

As far as I know, there is only one Rollei Lens Control S for the Rollei digital shutter, and it's white plastic on the front, the back being black plastic. I have three of them and they are all the same. I have just checked the shutter speed, and with Leaf Capture and a 120 macro digitar lens I can go up to 500th, though on a camera stand we tend to shoot at 60th and f16 with Broncolor Flash. It works well, but one of mine packed up and it took something like 6 months to have it repaired from the German factory, so I had to buy a spare one.

But when I go on location abroad, I always take a spare Copal mechanical shutter just in case, these hardly ever fail

Edward

Have you had any experience with the Horseman ISS line of electronic shutters? I know that they cannot be controlled via software, but are they reliable? There is not much info out there, and the Horseman site seems to be down...

[thsinar]

Dear Zacharie, here:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/

and about the ISS shuter here:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/digital/ISSG3.html

Best regards,
Thierry

... and the Horseman site seems to be down...

[E_Edwards]

Have you had any experience with the Horseman ISS line of electronic shutters? I know that they cannot be controlled via software, but are they reliable? There is not much info out there, and the Horseman site seems to be down...

I saw the Horseman once a while ago, I am not sure whether it's still made, I thought it had been discontinued, not sure,  but in any case what's the point of even thinking about something that is not supported by the software.

I think there are only two options of digital shutters supported by some back brands, the Schneider and the Rollei.

Frankly, for studio work, a prontor or copal is what I was using before for many years, they work perfectly OK, I could cock the shutter or open/close the iris with my eyes closed....and then I became lazy and bought the Rollei shutters mainly because of the 4-shot back that I had made it a necessity. Let's be realistic, you can't possibly use the B setting in a darkened room on a regular bases to fire 4-shots!

I haven't met anyone who likes these big, cumbersome shutters. They are an anachronism.  Yet they do the job as you control everything from the computer.

My advice? Stick to a manual shutter unless you are in a high volume environment and have money to burn.

[Zachary Goulko]

Dear Zacharie, here:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/

and about the ISS shuter here:

http://www.komamura.co.jp/e/digital/ISSG3.html

Best regards,
Thierry

Thanks Thierry, that's exactly what I was looking for!

My advice? Stick to a manual shutter unless you are in a high volume environment and have money to burn.

Edward,
I may just stick with the copal shutters for now. I'm not sure if I want anymore wires around my "already cluttered" setup.

[PdF]

Sinarcam 2 on P2 camera (or on mounting of Nikon or Mamiya 645 lenses), with 6 Sinaron Digital DB lenses.

With a good live-video.

Quite always in 4 or 16 shots mode.

PdF