cambo x2-pro any good?

[kendal]

does anyone have experiences with the cambo x2-pro in combination with a nikon/canon dslr?
can I expect good results in combination with a nikon D3 and a very good lens?

[routlaw]

I don't use the X2-Pro but do have the Cambo Ultima set up with my D3 and use it every day in the studio and to some degree out in the field. It works great, and the digital lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider are in a completely different league than even the best of Nikon glass. The D3 becomes a completely different imaging device with these lenses. So with that said I have no doubt you would get great results with the X2-pro but with some limitations of course with rear camera movements compared to the Ultima setup. But the X2 would be far easier to take on location. Always trade offs it seems.

And FWIW, you can easily create very large files by shifting and stitching several frames together if that is important for you. The image below is from 9 frames for a total of a 150 mb file, using the rear standard/D3 camera rise/fall and shifts, 3 columns and 3 rows.

Hope this helps.

Rob

[kendal]

I don't use the X2-Pro but do have the Cambo Ultima set up with my D3 and use it every day in the studio and to some degree out in the field. It works great, and the digital lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider are in a completely different league than even the best of Nikon glass. The D3 becomes a completely different imaging device with these lenses. So with that said I have no doubt you would get great results with the X2-pro but with some limitations of course with rear camera movements compared to the Ultima setup. But the X2 would be far easier to take on location. Always trade offs it seems.

And FWIW, you can easily create very large files by shifting and stitching several frames together if that is important for you. The image below is from 9 frames for a total of a 150 mb file, using the rear standard/D3 camera rise/fall and shifts, 3 columns and 3 rows.

Hope this helps.

Rob

Rob, thank you for your answer. very nice landscape photo. the cambo ultima 35 you mentioned looks very interesting. it is not easy to find good information on this system.

I am looking for a system for studio work only - mainly product photography. the main advantage I expect is the control over depth of field* and perspective. *mainly to gain depth of field

- how is the image quality & control compared to the nikon pc lenses?
- how hard is the learning curve for such a system ?
- you mentioned lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider. any recommendation for a lens around 80mm? what about the Apo-Digitar 4.0/80 NK0 cambo offers?
- is the ultima 35 a comlete system or are additional accessoires needed?

[routlaw]

Rob, thank you for your answer. very nice landscape photo. the cambo ultima 35 you mentioned looks very interesting. it is not easy to find good information on this system.

I am looking for a system for studio work only - mainly product photography. the main advantage I expect is the control over depth of field* and perspective. *mainly to gain depth of field

- how is the image quality & control compared to the nikon pc lenses?
- how hard is the learning curve for such a system ?
- you mentioned lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider. any recommendation for a lens around 80mm? what about the Apo-Digitar 4.0/80 NK0 cambo offers?
- is the ultima 35 a comlete system or are additional accessoires needed?

Thanks for the compliments.

To answer you questions; the image quality and control compared to using the pc lenses would be noticeably better with far more control with either the X2 or Ultima with. The Ultima having quite a bit more movements both front and rear than the X2-Pro. Any of the Rodenstock or Schneider digital glass will render much better results optically than the Nikon PC's plus you will have significantly more movements available due to the larger image circle. I believe the Apo-Digitar you quoted above is the Schneider lens, not sure what the NKO status means though. I also hear great things about the newer HR series of Rodenstock glass but it is pricey. The lens I am using mostly is the Rodenstock Digital 105 mm/F5.6 which can be had for around a grand. The 80 mm would provide for more DOF, but with a smaller image circle in case you had to make some extreme movements.

If you have had any experience with view cameras before it should be a walk in the park to get going with either of the systems. Some people have complained about the difficulty of focusing and image management with the small viewfinder vs using a loupe on a 4x5 ground glass but for the most part it has not been that big of a deal for me. Focus confirmation points on the D3 are inoperative once you start to shift and tilt however.

Other than the dSLR itself once you buy the Ultima 35 system with mounting block, lens, & lens board you should be good to go, nothing else is needed unless you want a compendium lens shade and that sort of thing.

I bought my system from Calumet and found them to be very helpful but Capture Integration also sells this gear as well.

Rob

[geesbert]

I tried the x2pro and wasn't too impressed. one major problem is that it only offers front movement. as it is of course strictly a tripod solution every tilt movement needs readjusting of the whole camera. with a geared head it works, but it is annoying.

stiching works of course, but you shift the lens and not the back, which introduces problems too.

i was looking into all possible solutions to get more control over the plane of focus.

i have all the canon TSE lenses, in fact i make 80% of my income with the 90tse. great lens, but limited movements and just a tad too long for my taste.

then i got the Mirex adapter with a mamiya 70mm lens. had flare problems and still not enough movements.

then i got the Zoerk multi focus system with a 80mm Rodagon. Fantastic lens, better than anything i had in front of my canon, loads of tilt, but not easy to get precise movement, impossible to repeat and lots of readjusting necessary, though great handhold. think of highest quality lens baby.

then i looked into the 'just together' system, to attach a DSLR to a view camera. that seems to be a decent solution.
 
finally i went and bought a Leaf AFi 7 and a Linhof 679. Still testing, but it is a revelation. now i can do what i always wanted with unmatched precision. have to eat stale bread for the next few years though...

stefan

[Tom C]

does anyone have experiences with the cambo x2-pro in combination with a nikon/canon dslr?
can I expect good results in combination with a nikon D3 and a very good lens?

I own the x2 pro and use it with a Canon 1ds III in conjunction with Hasselblad CF lenses. I use mostly the 40, 60, 80, 150 CF (I have owned these lenses for ages and have used them a lot with digital backs with fine results.) They have worked fine with my Canon too. I use it mostly for shift (furniture, environment) and front swings to play with focus on food.

I searched high and low for practical information on the thing. Locally, all I got were 7 mile stares from the camera shop guys (they'd never heard of it)... and online not much more... mostly theoretical info. Calumet in NYC had one in there store but I knew more about it then they did. I don't really know why there isn't more buzz about the x2- maybe its too practical of a solution? For the work that I do, the setup works really well - its very efficient to use especially with the canon's amazing live video for framing and focus. Through the course of a day I often shoot in combo with canon 35, 50, 90TS, and 135 by just popping of the bellows/hassy mount and still taking advantage of the x2's horizontal/vertical camera mounts.

The short answer in my opinon is YES you can expect very good results. Hope this helps.

[oscar falero]

finally i went and bought a Leaf AFi 7 and a Linhof 679. Still testing, but it is a revelation. now i can do what i always wanted with unmatched precision. have to eat stale bread for the next few years though...

stefan

Which version of the M679 are you using CC or CS and other than the leveling base what are the differences between the two?

Are you using HR lenses or the older digital lenses?

I looking into a view camera set up for my P45 as much as I love my RZ the lack of movements is not a good thing. There is only so much one can do with the TS adapter.


Oscar Falero

[Tom C]

I might also add:

It really is the combination of the x2 WITH the canon that works for me. The 1dsIII just flat out works very well. It's live video feature, which works anywhere (in a dark studio or in full on sun), tethered or not, is great for checking composition and critical focus. This, for me, is essential to me for tilt and shift work - it is the new ground glass-- maybe the best equivalent since the days of the Leaf DCBII and Volare). It is a night and day difference from the MFDB/view camera sliding back alternatives I have used of late, with dim ground glass (that get impossible with much shift)  and either non existent or finicky video-- these setups, for me, seemed often antiquated and inefficient in keeping pace with todays shot counts.

I have used the rodenstock digitar 85? and 105 a bunch with various digital backs and they are really great- seem more sharp then my hassy cf's. Honestly though, I'd rather sink my cash into a used hasselbald 100, 110 f2 or an RZ 110 2.8 for use on the x2. Good lenses, easier viewing through the lens and shallow dof.

[Kumar]

A view camera system like the Ultima would be the best solution on a longterm basis, because you can add the adapter for MFDBs. And if you feel like it, you can add the 4x5 adapter and shoot film!
Does the D3 have Live View when mounted on the Ultima?

Kumar

[jimgolden]

I've used a X2-Pro for almost 2 years w/ a scheinder 90mm Digitar + 5D and 1Ds2 for product work to hold focus and for selective focus primarily. I found it to be an excellent tool, most bang for the buck of all my gear by far (now just a 5D and H3D22). WAY more bang for the $ than a MFDB solution if you can get away with it. I also often use a SinarP3 w/ a Sinar 54 multishot for critical work at another local studio but only @ client request.
I find I only use the tilt + swing function on the P3 anyhow. Obviously, the X2-Pro won't yield multishot quality w/ a DSLR, but it's a useful tool in the studio and a great value.

[kendal]

thanks for all the very helpful answers so far.

- is there any danger (on both systems ultima and X2) that elements of the system could touch/damage parts of the camera (mirror ...) in extreme focus tilt/shift situations?

- does the live view mode of the D3 work without any restrictions? because there is no nikkor with electronical contacts attached the camera maybe "thinks" the ultima, X2 is only the plastic cap  

[jimgolden]

no chance for contact w/ the mirror & sensor b/c the mirror is inside the body. i do store my x2 w/caps always in a closed drawer, etc, to prevent any chance of dust getting in there. no problems so far.

[routlaw]

thanks for all the very helpful answers so far.

- is there any danger (on both systems ultima and X2) that elements of the system could touch/damage parts of the camera (mirror ...) in extreme focus tilt/shift situations?

- does the live view mode of the D3 work without any restrictions? because there is no nikkor with electronical contacts attached the camera maybe "thinks" the ultima, X2 is only the plastic cap  

The D3 works perfectly with live view mode, no problem there including tethered, although as a rule I tend not to use it unless its under some fairly tricky shift/tilt/focus situations. You do loose any exif data from the camera that would normally be associated with lenses, so you have to manually type in what lens/fstop you are using if its important.

I have not found any limitations whatsoever from shifting and tilting of the lens to the mirror box. But with the 105 mm lens there is already quite a bit of distance from the rear flange to box. I believe the shortest lens Cambo recommends is the 80 mm from either Schneider or Rodenstock, though you can also use the 28 mm Schneider which is a retro focus design. So the downside here is a huge gap in focal lengths, though some of that can be made up in stitching frames with longer focal lengths such as the 80-90 or 105. For instance the landscape image I posted earlier yielded an approximate 38-40 mm equivalent field of view on 35 mm FF format.

As Kumar stated earlier in the thread, the Ultima would be a better long term solution allowing for more versatility down the road, but it is heavier and quite a bit more expensive solution. I already had the Ultima 4x5 for use with an old Phase One scan back and for 4x5 sheet film in the mid 90's, so for me buying the conversion kit was much cheaper than buying the X2. Jim Golden makes a valid point about preventing dust pollution on the chip, without a doubt this system is considerably more prone to dust on the chip though manageable. When not in use I keep the bag bellows in a zip lock bag and blow off all parts before reassembly.

Hope this helps

Rob

[jimgolden]

i looked @ the ultima 35 setup with an eye towards moving it to a 2x3 for MFDB. the whole setup w/ lenses/shutter and sliding back and then the conversion kit was at the time was nearly $10k, then add your DSLR or MFDB of choice. a lot of $$ and after using the P3, it didn't feel that great.
the X2 is also great b/c of the choice of lenses. you can use hassie CF, Mam 645 or RZ, and others, including LF digitals (no shutter needed!!), a lot of people already have this glass or can snag it cheap. if you dont need rear movements, it's a no brainer. files from my 5D w/ the Scheinder 90mm are AMAZING compared to 35mm glass - and thats only a 5D...

[RobertJ]

Jim, can the X2 use any digital lenses (Rodenstock HR), or just the Schneiders that they talk about in the product description?

[jimgolden]

Jim, can the X2 use any digital lenses (Rodenstock HR), or just the Schneiders that they talk about in the product description?

As far as I know, the Rodenstocks were on the description too, at least when I bought mine. you are limited to the focal lengths they list due to focal design. the 28 has a retro focal design, so it's the only one wider than the 80 that'll work. some just wont focus @ infinity, others there are more issues is how I understand it from my correspondence w/ Cambo. now that 22 MP DSLRs are here I would think this system will come into it's own, but who knows. All I know is the 5Dmk2 is a LOT cheaper and more versatile than a HTS 1.5 for my H3 - granted at lower quality, but really, in print, can you tell??

[GregShapps]

you can use enlarging lenses if you would like as well - any lens will work as long as it will focus.   The Schneider 28 (which is a crap lens) then you can squeeze out a 75mm and then on up.

You do not need a shutter in these lenses so anything that can be rigged onto a lens board and falls in the focal range can be used.

Its actually alot of fun and allows you to experiment with alot of old junk lenses.

[Tom C]

All I know is the 5Dmk2 is a LOT cheaper and more versatile than a HTS 1.5 for my H3 - granted at lower quality, but really, in print, can you tell??

I agree with this statement completely. Not only is the canon/cambo solution a LOT more affordable, but dollars and cents aside, the system is much more efficient and freeing to use. And in the end, the quality is very acceptable.

This system is really perceived, by my clients, as a HUGE IMPROVEMENT: They can take a peek through the angle viewfinder (like they used to be able to)...  the video leaves less to interpret (except maybe an exact crop) when composing... all of this and that large file is captured in one pop!  Before there were always trade offs to be explained... really I'd guess my canon/cambo alternative is perceived as more the latest/greatest/expensive item then my 503/digital back or VC/digital back.

I often crop the sensor with certain art directors as they seem to recognize and find inspirational the 6x7 or 4x5 crop -such as I do. Though strangely, as of late, it seems that the 35mm aspect ratio is really becoming more and more in sync with crops making for efficient use of the sensor.

Last year all of my work that required view camera movement, or scaling up,  I used a P25 or P45. This year I have used the 1DS III and 1DS III/cambo x2 for all such work. I get to justify keeping my 503 and lenses, and finally I have a back up camera of the same format... my old 5D-- so far so good!

[kendal]

Rob, is there a Instruction Manual provided with the Cambo Ultima? Because I dont have much experience with large format cameras.

[Kumar]

Kendal,

The only way to learn to shoot with a view camera is to actually use it. Before buying an $$$ Ultima, buy a used Calumet and a 150mm lens for $200. Or you could get lucky on Craigslist and get it for free! One of these books is recommended reading:
Using the View Camera by Steve Simmons
View Camera Technique by Leslie Stroebel
User's Guide to the View Camera by Jim Stone

There is a lot of information and help available here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/how-to-operate.html

Instruction manuals will tell you the specifics of each camera's unique organization of its controls, but it won't make sense until you know the basics.

Cheers,
Kumar