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Author Topic: Camera Profiling in Lightroom?  (Read 5117 times)

Andy M

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« on: June 12, 2008, 04:43:01 pm »

Quite a simple question: is camera profiling worthwhile for a travel photographer (read: non studio photographer)?

In the original LL Lightroom tutorials Michael dismissed it as being too finicky, but the latest LL Camera RAW tutorials seem to be more open to carrying out the procedure, though, it was carried out in a studio.

I've just ordered an X-Rite Colorchecker, and have downloaded Thomas Fors' script, but now I'm not sure it's suited to my type of shooting which is mostly shot in natural light?
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digitaldog

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2008, 08:21:58 pm »

Quote
Quite a simple question: is camera profiling worthwhile for a travel photographer (read: non studio photographer)?

In the original LL Lightroom tutorials Michael dismissed it as being too finicky, but the latest LL Camera RAW tutorials seem to be more open to carrying out the procedure, though, it was carried out in a studio.

I've just ordered an X-Rite Colorchecker, and have downloaded Thomas Fors' script, but now I'm not sure it's suited to my type of shooting which is mostly shot in natural light?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


No and it can't be done (building an ICC camera profile). You can however tweak the calibration of the existing profiles which can be useful.
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MBehrens

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2008, 09:13:40 pm »

Quote
I've just ordered an X-Rite Colorchecker, and have downloaded Thomas Fors' script, but now I'm not sure it's suited to my type of shooting which is mostly shot in natural light?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201219\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It can be helpful to obtain Camera Calibrations settings from a Fors, Gardner, or other script. Andrew is correct that LR will not accept a camera ICC profile, since you are looking to the Fors script, I doubt that the ICC profile was your intention.

There is a lot of back and forth on this topic and many proclaim it to be of no use... "what is accurate color?" and a lot of other subjective conversations.

I and others like the Rags Gardner script. It seems to do a lot more sampling of more colors. The results were better (again very subjective) for me. There is one by ...Tiemerman... something like that, I haven't tried it but hear good things.

Also, there is rumor that LR 2 will have a camera calibration tool in it. So we may see some built-in assitance with this in the near future.

Have Fun!
 - Morey
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Andy M

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 02:51:51 am »

Thank you for the replies

Sorry for the confusion, I did indeed mean the in-built 'camera calibration' in the develop module of Lightroom.

Is this worth carrying out for a natural light shooter?
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tommm

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 05:01:40 am »

I've tried the Forrs and Rags Gardner Script and for me neither gave great results, however I found doing a manual calibration has definitely improved colour accuracy over the Lightroom default for my camera (a 5D). Here's a quick summary of what I did:

Photograph your target on a sunny day at mid morning somewhere with neutral colours. Spot meter off patch 22 for exposure. Open in Camera Raw, leave exposure at 0, set brightness so patch 22 is correct (I used the sRGB numbers that come with the target). Fiddle with the contrast and shadow settings until th black patch is correct and the patches either side of 22 are equally close to what they're supposed to be as each other (you won't get that close) i.e. they're supposed to be 160 and 85 - I got mine to 167 and 92. The white patch will be lower than it's supposed to be. I ended up with brightness 29, contrast 9 and shadows 3.

Next adjust the red, green and blue patches until they're as close as you can get them to the target. For example the green patch is supposed to be 70, 148, 73 I ended up with 73, 151, 76 (i.e. relationship between r,g and b is right but all are 3 high). Start by adjusting the green patch till it's balanced using green hue and sat sliders, then blue, then red and then repeat until they're all as close as you can get them ( doesn't actually take that long once you get the hang of how the sliders work. Check all the other patches and they should all be pretty good. Note down the numbers for the cal sliders transfer to light room and save as a preset. Test them on a few real life photos and see what you think.

Exposing for the neutral grey patch and then only adjusting the brightness slider should mean that the brightness setting is approximately right to get a normal tonal response from your camera. Also with the contrast setting, adjusting it without adjusting the exposure or using a curve should mean this setting is as close to the correct tonal response for you camera possible. Therefore I also used the brightness and contrast settings as a starting point as I think this gives the most accurate pics you can get however thats not what you normally want so usually end up boosting contrast.

Some people will also say using sRGB rather than ppRGB is not a good idea but I tried both and sRGB definitely worked better, non of the colours are out of gammut so it shouldn't really matter as long as the numbers for each are correct and as the sRGB numbers are the ones supplied with the chart I figured these are more likely to be right.

Hope this waffle helps!

Most of this method is based on Rags Gardners site but I didn't find his script did a great job.
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digitaldog

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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 09:47:06 am »

My advise, based on "stuff I know about but can't discuss" is wait a bit unless you need something ASAP. Having a Macbeth 24 patch target is always a useful investment.
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KeithR

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 09:47:26 am »

Quote
It can be helpful to obtain Camera Calibrations settings from a Fors, Gardner, or other script. Andrew is correct that LR will not accept a camera ICC profile, since you are looking to the Fors script, I doubt that the ICC profile was your intention.

There is a lot of back and forth on this topic and many proclaim it to be of no use... "what is accurate color?" and a lot of other subjective conversations.

I and others like the Rags Gardner script. It seems to do a lot more sampling of more colors. The results were better (again very subjective) for me. There is one by ...Tiemerman... something like that, I haven't tried it but hear good things.

Also, there is rumor that LR 2 will have a camera calibration tool in it. So we may see some built-in assitance with this in the near future.

Have Fun!
 - Morey
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
For those interested, here's a link and an explanation of the Tindemans script:
[a href=\"http://21stcenturyshoebox.com/tools/ACRcalibrator.html]http://21stcenturyshoebox.com/tools/ACRcalibrator.html[/url]
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MBehrens

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 12:07:23 pm »

Quote
My advise, based on "stuff I know about but can't discuss" is wait a bit unless you need something ASAP.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201350\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Also, according to Eric Chan in the LR 2 forum last week...

Originally posted by: madmanchan
...we're paying attention and the wait won't be too long. Thanks for your patience.


Eric's hints are usually reliable. As Andrew says, unless you need it ASAP, wait a bit. My guess would be an early July relaease of LR2 with some new Cam Cal tools.

 - Morey
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Andy M

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 01:53:29 pm »

Quote
Also, according to Eric Chan in the LR 2 forum last week...

Originally posted by: madmanchan
...we're paying attention and the wait won't be too long. Thanks for your patience.


Eric's hints are usually reliable. As Andrew says, unless you need it ASAP, wait a bit. My guess would be an early July relaease of LR2 with some new Cam Cal tools.

 - Morey
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201389\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Thanks guys  It's good to know that "they're" listening...

I tried the Fors script today and will see the results over the next few days. What I will say is that the reds have been altered quite a bit, and as a result skin tones are quite a lot warmer. I'm not sure it's the result I'm entirely after, but we'll see...
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KeithR

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Camera Profiling in Lightroom?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 07:20:23 pm »

Quote
Thanks guys  It's good to know that "they're" listening...

I tried the Fors script today and will see the results over the next few days. What I will say is that the reds have been altered quite a bit, and as a result skin tones are quite a lot warmer. I'm not sure it's the result I'm entirely after, but we'll see...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=201403\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
That's why you may want to look at my previous post about the Tindemans script.
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