Adequate air compressor for HVLP coating?

[bill t.]

Up to this point have been using a spray booth in a borrowed shop for my HVLP canvas coating.

Soon will be doing this is my own shop.  I need to know how big a compressor is needed.

The borrowed shop has a HUGE air compressor that would make any auto-body shop proud.  Coating three 30" x 60" canvases at the same time was enough to keep it running much of the time which suggests those little HVLP guns need a lot of air.

Sooo...what's big enough?  Any specific recommendations?  Thanks.

And yes I've got a really good respirator and I use it.  And yes I tried rolling, it hates me and it knows where I live.

http://www.unit16.net

[Paul2660]

Bill,

I have used the Wagner Control Spray on all my work.  No compressor needed.  Excellent results, It's a HVLP sprayer, cost is around 69.00.   In the post in this same forum on the use of coatings, I listed the model number.

Paul Caldwell

[Mark Lindquist]

Up to this point have been using a spray booth in a borrowed shop for my HVLP canvas coating.

Soon will be doing this is my own shop.  I need to know how big a compressor is needed.

The borrowed shop has a HUGE air compressor that would make any auto-body shop proud.  Coating three 30" x 60" canvases at the same time was enough to keep it running much of the time which suggests those little HVLP guns need a lot of air.

Sooo...what's big enough?  Any specific recommendations?  Thanks.

And yes I've got a really good respirator and I use it.  And yes I tried rolling, it hates me and it knows where I live.

http://www.unit16.net
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Bill -
Funny, but I've used pneumatic equipment as a sculptor for over 35 years and no matter how big a compressor I use, they seem to run all the time (or at least it seems that way).  It's my thinking that the compressor is constantly trying to keep the tank full of compressed air and at a certain psi, and that's what keeps it going and going.  Those little hvlp guns don't really use that much air but the compressor likes to keep running to be prepared.  I found that over the years, perhaps what was most effective was to couple 2 compressors so that each would run to fill the other and they could tag-team.  I have a 15,000 sq ft studio and the compressors are far away from where I use them so noise is no issue for me.

If noise is an issue for you, there are silent air compressors that chug along quietly.  And of course, as mentioned, the little hvlp units work fine and no need for compressor.  But you might feel you're spraying rain drops with the cheap units.  

If you like quality equipmment, and I suspect you do, check out silentaire:
[a href=\"http://www.silentaire.com/silentaire/aboutus.asp]http://www.silentaire.com/silentaire/aboutus.asp[/url]

Nice stuff - kindof pricey...

Regards,

Mark

[Alaska]

The real HVLP systems have a built in turbine in place of the typical air compressor.  They use a lot of air at 8 psi or so depending on model.  The air line is like 3/4 inch water hose.

Here is great all around system.

http://www.gleempaint.com/cs9100hvlpnew.html

Have used this for a number of projects and it just keeps on ticking.

There is also a HVLP conversion gun which simulates true HVLP.

http://www.gleempaint.com/hvlp1.html

See above for PSI and CFM ratings.

Jim

[situgrrl]

Assuming that HVLP spraying canvas is the same as spraying a car with HVLP, I can tell you that the 150 ltr 3 hp compressor (30A) I had was not capable of spraying it even panel by panel.  I was informed that I would need 3 phase (450 v) to drive such a gun.  If you are able to use the electrical guns available for interior decor I would take that route.  If the chemicals for coating canvas are as harmful as those used for spraying cars I would suggest coming to an agreement with your friend:  Installing 3 phase is a massive expense - £10 000 I seem to remember - BUT - that is in the countryside where serious cabling was necessary.

[SeanPuckett]

I use a $200 6cfm@90 oil-lube compressor and a $50 1.4mm nozzle non-bleed HVLP gun with external regulator at the gun end of the hose (very important).  The compressor runs almost steadily when shooting but I never run out of air (shooting at 10-15psi).

I shoot both oil (for traditional media artists) and waterbase (to seal my own canvas) with this system, and properly adjusted it works a champ.

The turbine system I have but no longer use for this purpose sometimes seems to blow too much air, and that air is generally quite hot.  This can affect the finish.

YMMV, your studio may vary, etc etc.

[bill t.]

Thanks for all the input!

I tried the little Wagner unit Paul suggested.  I never thought it could really work, thanks Paul!  As Mark mentioned I got some sense of spraying raindrops, but darned if it didn't do a great job.  Went down just slightly lumpy but very consistent, then levelled out perfectly.  Got the best single coat results ever, excellent surface cover and no issues with overlaps.  Got a very subtle 2 coat result without objectionable gloss or filling in the canvas texture.

Very fast too, 4" x 40" strokes in just about 4 seconds with the nozzle almost as fine as it would go.  It needs about 2 or 3 seconds from the git-go to start picking up the spray, important not to get ahead of it in that respect, keep the trigger punched between swipes.  Bottom line is I think speed of application is the key to getting good results with these protective sprays, you don't want differential drying on adjacent swipes which is what makes rolling such a pain (for me).

Used straight Clearnshield "C" out of the can.  Wonder if diluting would produce finer droplets...although why mess with success?  Also noticed this unit has a $99 big brother with a separate turbine unit connected to a smaller gun with a hose, anybody using that?

I'm definitely feeling good about this.  In the mean time I'm saving all those much-appreciated links, maybe I'll go on to something better but only if the Wagner is too short lived.  It's so wonderfully compact, a perfect match for my tiny shop.

[Mark Lindquist]

Thanks for all the input!

I tried the little Wagner unit Paul suggested.  I never thought it could really work, thanks Paul!  As Mark mentioned I got some sense of spraying raindrops, but darned if it didn't do a great job.  Went down just slightly lumpy but very consistent, then levelled out perfectly.  Got the best single coat results ever, excellent surface cover and no issues with overlaps.  Got a very subtle 2 coat result without objectionable gloss or filling in the canvas texture.

Very fast too, 4" x 40" strokes in just about 4 seconds with the nozzle almost as fine as it would go.  It needs about 2 or 3 seconds from the git-go to start picking up the spray, important not to get ahead of it in that respect, keep the trigger punched between swipes.  Bottom line is I think speed of application is the key to getting good results with these protective sprays, you don't want differential drying on adjacent swipes which is what makes rolling such a pain (for me).

Used straight Clearnshield "C" out of the can.  Wonder if diluting would produce finer droplets...although why mess with success?  Also noticed this unit has a $99 big brother with a separate turbine unit connected to a smaller gun with a hose, anybody using that?

I'm definitely feeling good about this.  In the mean time I'm saving all those much-appreciated links, maybe I'll go on to something better but only if the Wagner is too short lived.  It's so wonderfully compact, a perfect match for my tiny shop.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171865\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That's cool if the little Wagner unit works well.  I was going to mention that Breathing Color has a product called Glamour Gloss (their proprietary coating) and it can be diluted as much as 50/50 with distilled water for spraying.  The GG is a little tricky to use and can get complicated in terms of ratios and heating the water prior to mixing if you want to get fancy, but it gives I think one of the best surfaces out there, particularly when used with Breathing Color Chromata White Canvas.  I have heard good things about Clearshield and have some quarts I plan to test.  I'm glad to hear the Wagner unit works for you.  The key of course if the leveling agent in the mix.  So cool.  In this case, cheap works.  (Until you want to get fancy and throw money at the project...      

Mark

[barry685]

I have been using this with good results:
http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/fuji.html

This was recommended to me by 2 other users that are spraying GlamourII from Breathing Color on to Breathing Color canvas.

Up to this point have been using a spray booth in a borrowed shop for my HVLP canvas coating.

Soon will be doing this is my own shop.  I need to know how big a compressor is needed.

The borrowed shop has a HUGE air compressor that would make any auto-body shop proud.  Coating three 30" x 60" canvases at the same time was enough to keep it running much of the time which suggests those little HVLP guns need a lot of air.

Sooo...what's big enough?  Any specific recommendations?  Thanks.

And yes I've got a really good respirator and I use it.  And yes I tried rolling, it hates me and it knows where I live.

http://www.unit16.net
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171711\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

[Mark Lindquist]

I have been using this with good results:
http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/fuji.html

This was recommended to me by 2 other users that are spraying GlamourII from Breathing Color on to Breathing Color canvas.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=171990\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Good link Barry -
So what ratio of gloss to matte to water are you using?
Also, are you pre-heating the distilled H20, etc.?

M

[bill t.]

So the difference between the bottom-of-the-barrel Wagner and Jim's CS9100 and Barry's Spray Tech is what?  Better atomization, higher paint loads, longer life?  The Wagner shoots a lot of air along with the paint, I guess that's normal, what about these better models?

What's the case for going upscale from the Wagner?

[Mark Lindquist]

So the difference between the bottom-of-the-barrel Wagner and Jim's CS9100 and Barry's Spray Tech is what?  Better atomization, higher paint loads, longer life?  The Wagner shoots a lot of air along with the paint, I guess that's normal, what about these better models?

What's the case for going upscale from the Wagner?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=172016\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Much more consistency for delivery of the media (coating).  The spray will be finer, more controlled and able to maintain consistent flow.  As long as the leveling works well and you lay the substrate flat after spraying and allow for flattening the Wagner should do you fine, but if you got into serious production of any kind, the CS9100 would definitely outperform.  Who knows the actual performance percentage increase other than the factor of quality in build and performance.  I've never used the Wagner and in the sense that it's so easily accessible (cheap) it would almost be a throwaway system compared to $700 for the CS9100.  I would not want to spray "rain-drops" ever, though...  

m

[peteh]

Much more consistency for delivery of the media (coating).  The spray will be finer, more controlled and able to maintain consistent flow.  As long as the leveling works well and you lay the substrate flat after spraying and allow for flattening the Wagner should do you fine, but if you got into serious production of any kind, the CS9100 would definitely outperform.  Who knows the actual performance percentage increase other than the factor of quality in build and performance.  I've never used the Wagner and in the sense that it's so easily accessible (cheap) it would almost be a throwaway system compared to $700 for the CS9100.  I would not want to spray "rain-drops" ever, though...  

m
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Look here for HVLP units.
[a href=\"http://store.spraymallstore.com/grhvsp.html]http://store.spraymallstore.com/grhvsp.html[/url]
I have Graco unit.

[tomm101]

I use a Porter Cable HVLP gun and compressor, they were recommended to be used together, total cost was, 5 years ago about $400 including shipping, then another $100 for filters, lines and other accessories. The compressor is a 135psi model with a 20 gallon tank, just in specs for the gun, but I have done 40"x 72" canvases with it with no problem.

Tom