Topic: help decide on back (Read 6903 times)

carlsenjesper · « **on:** October 25, 2007, 05:03:55 pm »

Hi All

Hope you guys can help me decide. Im looking to venture into the world of digital medium format photography. I'm currently studying photography at ICP but also shoot a lot of fashion photography on the side and would ideally go for a Phase One back but currently short of money.

So I am looking at the following backs for my AFDII.

Kodak DCS PRO (can get it really cheap)
Leaf Valeo 17 (no display)
Mamiya ZD back

I have read and read so many reviews now on all 3 backs but still cant decide. Does anybody have any experience with these backs, and will they be good enough for venturing into fashion photography and last for the next 1 year or so??

Cheers
JES

amsp · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2007, 05:29:10 pm »

I'd say get a used 1Ds MkII till you can afford a P25/P30, it will serve you better than those old backs. JMHO.

amsp · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2007, 06:20:59 pm »

You can actually get them for as little as 3k$ now, I guess people are dumping them in anticipation of the MkIII.

carlsenjesper · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2007, 06:21:08 pm »

Quote

I owned a 645M Kodak back for a very short period of time. I highly discourage you from getting that one. The buffer is very small in today's terms.

The above advice is probably best, get a used 1DsII for $4K. A better option than the Kodak or Valeo and much faster and cleaner files at 200ISO and above than the ZD back.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148700\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I do have a few Nikon D2Xs so Im fine on that front but would like to try out a digital back. I guess it all comes down to the usage of the ZD back. I only shoot with flash and take my time when shooting to get the best composition and only shoot like 5 - 10 times before trying a new composition.

amsp · « **Reply #4 on:** October 25, 2007, 06:39:14 pm »

Well, if you are going to spend 7k$ on a ZD I'd def. do some comparison shots with the MkIII first. But if you are serious about getting into the medium format camp I would still save a little more and get a P25/P30, I think you would see more of a step up in quality there. Again, JMHO.

mcfoto · « **Reply #5 on:** October 25, 2007, 06:39:37 pm »

Quote

Hi All

Hope you guys can help me decide. Im looking to venture into the world of digital medium format photography. I'm currently studying photography at ICP but also shoot a lot of fashion photography on the side and would ideally go for a Phase One back but currently short of money.

So I am looking at the following backs for my AFDII.

Kodak DCS PRO (can get it really cheap)
Leaf Valeo 17 (no display)
Mamiya ZD back

I have read and read so many reviews now on all 3 backs but still cant decide. Does anybody have any experience with these backs, and will they be good enough for venturing into fashion photography and last for the next 1 year or so??

Cheers
JES
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148691\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi
I rented the Kodak DCS back in 2002 & would stay away from it, the ZD is faster & has a much better file. I would go for the ZD over the Leaf Valeo 17 due to the larger Dalsa chip. The Leaf software is way better than the Mamiya though in tethered. I use my ZD camera mostly untethered, then bring the raw files in Raw Developer to be processed into tifs. From there to LR for editing & PS for post. If you had a major job & felt the buffer on the ZD would not do then rent an Aptus 22 ( same chip, crop as the ZD ) for that project. If you are shooting fashion then Leaf & Sinar would be the go as they are the fastest backs on the market. Plus Leaf has great skin quality. I have shot portraits with the ZD in the studio @ iso 50 & they are very close to the Aptus 22. If the small screen on the ZD is an issue for location work buy a viewer, shoot RAW/jpeg
& then look at them on the viewer like an Epson or the new Canon.

LA30 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 25, 2007, 08:09:30 pm »

Another no go vote against the Kodak Pro Back. The files are only OK by todays standards. The medium format feel is there but software support is lacking and the time is almost up on repairing them.

I like the canon 1DSMII option.

Ken

bcroslin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 25, 2007, 10:53:20 pm »

If you can deal with some of the limitations the ZD back is the way to go over the older backs. If you need speed stick with the Canons.

btw - John, have you tested a ZD back with the updated hardware? The noise issues and purple blobs have been fixed.

Morgan_Moore · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:09:23 am »

Quote

Hi All

I'm currently studying photography at ICP but also shoot a lot of fashion photography on the side and would ideally go for a Phase One

So I am looking at the following backs for my AFDII.

Kodak DCS PRO (can get it really cheap)
Leaf Valeo 17 (no display)
Mamiya ZD back

I have read and read so many reviews now on all 3 backs but still cant decide. Does anybody have any experience with these backs, and will they be good enough for venturing into fashion photography and last for the next 1 year or so??

Cheers
JES
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148691\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I Had a pro back - you can get a really nice file from this IMO - if you have the AFD lenses and are going to shoot quite slowly and never drop the shutter speed bleow 15/th it could be woth considering IF REALLY CHEAP

I assume you unerstand the crop factor of this back - square

Valeo - dont know - if you shoot quite slowly tripods/studio etc then I wouldnt worry about the gubbins hanging off it - if you shoot on the street then I would

The ZD back I beleive to be great in the 50-100 range at exposures less than 1 second -

Considering it has the least crop, is not tethered, is servicable I would suggest that is the one

BUT

- I would never go into MF if you dont have money for a DSLR too - you must have a DSLR for backup/low low light and AF

- I would personally never invest heavilly in the Mamiya system because the 125/synch is too resricting outdoors (yes you can gey a RZ too - great option)

-none of these back have changeable mounts that allow a system change in time

AND MOST IMPORTANT

I would suggest you spend this money on hiring decent models, and employing professional make up and stylists, lights, and travel/locations

A boook shot with a 5D and a 50 1.8 with good models well dressed, lit and styled at a decent location will walk over a book that is missig these points

The least important link in the chain from concept to printed image is the camera

S

carlsenjesper · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:25:13 am »

Hi All

thanks for all the good advice, and will stay clear of the Kodak and Valeo, anybody any experience with the Phase One P20. I do have a 10k offer lying around on a Demo unit and I guess it can be upgraded down the line to the + Series. Again this should be for fashion photography.

value your advice here.

Cheers
JES

Morgan_Moore · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2007, 02:38:54 am »

Quote

I guess it can be upgraded down the line to the + Series.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148765\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dont guess about upgrade paths- read the small print - if there is any

And a 20mp square image cropped to page shape = 12mp = 5d quality with nicer transitions to highlights and less banding

S

Dustbak · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2007, 03:35:08 am »

The P20 is 16MP square. It leaves you with about 12MP if you can cut it 4:3 and 11MP if you cut it 2:3.

Having owned a Valeo I can tell it is a very decent back that can still hold its own file-quality wise. That is has no screen was not a very big concern to me, the screen in my Aptus and CF39 I also only use to have a quick glance at composition but more importantly histogram.

The fact I needed to walk around with a harddisk in my pocket and a cord from the camera through my clothes to this disk was annoying.

I don't know what your budget is but you might want to save up a little bit longer to go for either the P21 refurbed or an A17 (Leaf Aptus17) refurbed. These aren't that expensive anymore and deliver really well. For 10K (probably less) you must be able to get one of these! Have a look at the for sale section. Some dealers have posted prices on refurbs and second hand backs.

10K for a demo P20 is overpriced.

Snook · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2007, 12:18:17 pm »

Sorry to butt in here, but I agree that there are many backs now aound 10-12k.
Speaking of which does anybody know of the reliable *durablity with the Phase and Leaf backs.. I am stuck between a Leaf aptus 22 and a P30. As I live very far away and service is not available where `i live I am wondering if either is more of a "tank" than the other, Or are they on the same lines..?
Any help would be great as I am deciding on either a Leaf 22 or a P30... And I want the camera with less problems in the future as far as durability...
Hope that makes sense. I have heard from several people with the Pseries that say they have not had any real problems. I know several Hassleblad owners that have had many problems and I cannot afford that.
Thanks for any opinions.
Snook

vgogolak · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2007, 05:07:21 pm »

I would say look at the P21 or used P25 at $12k

BUT the Kodak is NOT shabby. Here's a quick crop but I will send you some raw .DCR files from a few years ago. (If interested, let me know and I will put on yousendit)
At the time it made for some impressive images
regards
Victor

mcfoto · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2007, 07:17:35 pm »

Quote

Sorry to butt in here, but I agree that there are many backs now aound 10-12k.
Speaking of which does anybody know of the reliable *durablity with the Phase and Leaf backs.. I am stuck between a Leaf aptus 22 and a P30. As I live very far away and service is not available where `i live I am wondering if either is more of a "tank" than the other, Or are they on the same lines..?
Any help would be great as I am deciding on either a Leaf 22 or a P30... And I want the camera with less problems in the future as far as durability...
Hope that makes sense. I have heard from several people with the Pseries that say they have not had any real problems. I know several Hassleblad owners that have had many problems and I cannot afford that.
Thanks for any opinions.
Snook
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148856\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hi Snook
We use the Mamiya AFDII with the Aptus 22 for most of our ad work. The one advantage that i like with the Aptus 22 is speed 1.2 f/s & all our work is in the studio. When I shoot outside I use either the ZD camera or Canon but still prefer the ZD over the 5D due to a better file. I have had the AFDII for 2 years now with no problems. The new S backs from Leaf will be even faster. The 545S which is the same chip as the Aptus 22 will be .9f/s.Plus the new LC11 is wonderful.

vandevanterSH · « **Reply #15 on:** October 26, 2007, 07:55:24 pm »

The best "deal" in MF digital is the Hasselblad 503CWD at #$10,999.

Steve

pss · « **Reply #16 on:** October 26, 2007, 10:41:29 pm »

Quote

The best "deal" in MF digital is the Hasselblad 503CWD at #$10,999.
Steve
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=148927\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

sorry the best deal is the rollei 6008af/P20 bundle..if you can still find it....comes with the 80 schneider as well....1/1000 sync...that lens really makes the P20 sing.....i was able to upgrade from the P20 to a p30 (mamiya mount).....i went from the valeo 17 to the rolleiP20 bundle...yes it is square, yes you loose resolution, but the files are just amazing....a crisp lens with teh P20 works great.....

rethmeier · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2007, 10:51:16 pm »

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index....showtopic=19722

There is one for sale at the forum!

Looks like a good deal!

AndreNapier · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:53:17 am »

I second that. It is an amazing bundle. I used it for a year and loved it.

Dustbak · « **Reply #19 on:** October 27, 2007, 03:15:04 am »

This is copied from the for sale section, refurbed prices as placed there by Clawery.

P21 H 10 month warranty (2) $9,290

I believe that is about the going price for the P21 refurbs. This should, probably less, be the going price for the A17 as well.

Currently there is a thread for sale by Steve Hendrix offering a V mount A17 below $7,000.

I much rather have a 3:4 back than a 1:1.

Author Topic: help decide on back (Read 6903 times)

Snook