Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!  (Read 15669 times)

chrisfranceuk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« on: September 25, 2007, 09:55:45 am »

[attachment=3390:attachment]Please can someone help! I have a 5D. Coming from film I am used to using my Lee filters, and want to continue using them. I set my 5D colour temp manually to daylight, 5500K, just as Velvia is, then use filters as normal. I do this because I dont want to alter pixel data at conversion stage, to me this is 'digitally altering the image'...My RAW files when opening in either PS2 or Capture One LE both come out with different WB and other settings? What PS2 sees, ie the Histogram, is different to what CapOne LE sees??? Whats going on? Why doesnt it say what I set it too, in both programs? This is leaving me feeling like I dont know what is correct now...I didnt get this with film!!!

Also my images look so digitised sometimes its unreal. I did a wedding and those came out not too bad, I went to Cyprus to take Landscapes, and the quality is very poor. The image looks 'bitty'? I dont know if this is me or the camera?

I dont understand the RAW format. I know that its the 'digital neg', but I am so not confident in the 5D's recording of the image I saw, it looks nothing like it! How do I know that what was captured by the camera at the time, is not then 'digitally altered' when opening my RAW files...I mean like the sharpness/saturation/contrast settings etc...How do I know its faithfull?

Sorry for the long post but I really need some answers, this is why Ive signed up to this site. If anyone can help I will really appreciate it...

Ive attached a high quality JPEG of one of the images so you can see what I mean.
Logged

Ken Bennett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1797
    • http://www.kenbennettphoto.com
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2007, 11:50:02 am »

OK, first, realize that your camera is capturing a black-and-white image, then "faking" the color using an array of different colored filters over each pixel. The camera (or the RAW processor) uses an algorithm to decide the color of each pixel based on the surrounding pixels. There is no color to a RAW image.

So, don't get so hung up over "digital manipulation." Different cameras and different RAW processors will render the same image differently (just like different films), so you need to take control over the process. You are in charge of what your final image looks like, and whether it is a faithful representation of the original scene. You set the white balance, tonal range, saturation, etc., to match the original.

Go ahead and use the white balance control in your RAW processor to match the color of the original. This may or may not be 5500K, it could be almost any number. Don't worry about using your graduated neutral density filter -- the line still shows up on the photo you posted, and this sort of contrast masking is much better done in Photoshop anyway. (And it's no more "manipulation" than doing it with an ND filter.)

Think of a RAW file more like printing a color negative in the darkroom. Each exposure usually requires a different filter pack, and a different exposure time. Sometimes they require a little burning and dodging, too. Since we're in a Landscape forum, think of Ansel Adams's idea of the negative as the score, and the print as the performance. A RAW file acts the same way. A RAW file isn't some "fixed" perfect rendering of the original scene. It requires some work to make it so, but that's the beauty of it. You get to control that work.

You might take a look at two Bruce Frazer books: Real World Camera RAW, and Real World Photoshop CS2.

Hope this helps.

--Ken
Logged
Equipment: a camera and some lenses. https://www.instagram.com/wakeforestphoto/

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4237
    • waynefox.com
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2007, 06:37:19 pm »

Capturing the RAW data and working with things like white balance isn't any different than choosing Ektachrome vs Velvia, except you can do both if you like.  And better than that, you can set the image to be the EXACT white balance of the scene, which is usually something other than the white balance of the film.

To me, film is just one way, digital is another, but film certainly isn't "sacred".  Film manipulates and alters the data as well, but that manipulation is determined by the manufacturer.  At least with digital, the photographer has the control, as long as is captured RAW.
Logged

Misirlou

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 711
    • http://
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2007, 07:09:40 pm »

RAW images are not altered in any way by any white balance setting. Each photosite on the sensor records the same brightness level information no matter what that setting is. The white balance setting is stored in the file, to be used in converting the RAW file to something useful later, but it does not effect the RAW data capture at all.

That's one of the benefits of shooting RAW in the first place. Maybe you open the image later and decide it's not warm enough. You just pick a different white balance setting in your RAW processor, and you have an instant correction. If you remember what it's like to accdentally shoot tungsten film in daylight, you should understand why this might be an attractive capability to have.

On the other hand, the white balance setting is used by the camera if you save a jpg version of that same image. I always shoot my 20D with the RAW plus jpg setting (with the very smallest jpg file size setting). That way, I have the original RAW file for print purposes, and a jpg for cataloging, quick e-mails, and so forth. The in-camera white balance settings determines how that jpg will be processed for color balance.

In your RAW converter, you have a choice of white balance settings to apply. I usually leave white balance set to auto in the camera. When I open a RAW in Adobe Camera RAW (ACR), I can then choose a white balance of "as shot" which will try to duplicate what the camera came up with on its own automatically. Beleive it or not, it's usaully not too bad. I can also choose from a number of canned white balance settings, like tungsten, or adjust what's there manually. My preferred method is to manually set the white balance so that objects that ought to look neutral are neutral. I just find something I know to be white or gray, select it with the eyedropper tool, and work from there. Very handy.

I disagree a little bit with those who consider digital capture to have made filters obsolete. I'd much rather deal with an image that has a good tonal balance to begin with. Sure, you can do a lot of great things with contrast masks and so forth, but if you're after the best quality, you'd rather not have a file with highlights that are blown out, or a lot of noise in underexposed shadows. So I'd say don't give up your neutral grads just yet.
Logged

marcmccalmont

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1780
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2007, 09:55:31 pm »

As I have learned over the last 2 years, in digital capture filters are more useful for dynamic range compression than for color correction. As stated above I look at my camera as 3 color cameras (or a B&W camera with 3 color filters) that after the fact I can adjust the ratios between the 3.
I love the output of DxO optics on 5D files, you might want to download the demo, I'd be glad to walk you through the settings for the first time.
Marc

Was a split ND filter placed diagonally across this image?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2007, 09:57:45 pm by marcmccalmont »
Logged
Marc McCalmont

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4237
    • waynefox.com
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2007, 12:57:36 am »

Quote
... then use filters as normal. I do this because I dont want to alter pixel data at conversion stage, to me this is 'digitally altering the image'...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141738\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So your OK using an analog means to alter the image, but not OK with using digital means to alter the image?

Not sure I see the difference ... the filters alter the image.  I can duplicate the effect of the filter in photoshop exactly, and more precisely.  I can create the effect of a 1.4 hard grad or a 2.3 soft grad.  I don't think that is anymore "altering" the data than using the filter, and I'm not sure why it is important to only alter it at capture.

True you can alter the data in all kinds of ways that go beyond what you can do when capturing film and printing with an enlarger, but that doesn't mean you have to.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 01:05:21 am by Wayne Fox »
Logged

chrisfranceuk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2007, 10:49:43 am »

"So your OK using an analog means to alter the image, but not OK with using digital means to alter the image?"

Wayne, not sure whats with the attitude. Came on here for some help, not to have hassel!  Im not sure you grasp why we use filters in the first place. Yes digital makes 'some' filters obsolete, eg colour correcting, but ND grads are a means to balance contrast only within a scene. This is not 'altering the image' as you like to put it, as we are not adding something that is not there, neither are we adding colour or anything else for that matter, purely to record what our natural eyes see and can compensate for. Why would I want to spend time on a PC creating ND grads, when I can pull one out of my case and use it there and then? Ive had these kind of discussions with people before, and as far as I can see, the digital medium has robbed photography of the technical ability and skill it takes to aquire an image, in its natural form. Yes digital has opened a new way, but it doesnt make it the best or the correct way...Even if I get it wrong, Id rather test my thinking than make it easy on myself, its not a way I want to work...
Logged

chrisfranceuk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2007, 10:54:27 am »

Hi Mark, Thank you for your help on this. Yes Im interested. What demo is this? Not heard of it before you see...

Yes I used a Lee 0.9ND Hard Grad. The contrast that morning was quite bad, but as I had only one morning there, I felt I wanted to get atleast something...!
Logged

marcmccalmont

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1780
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2007, 12:55:38 pm »

Quote
Hi Mark, Thank you for your help on this. Yes Im interested. What demo is this? Not heard of it before you see...

Yes I used a Lee 0.9ND Hard Grad. The contrast that morning was quite bad, but as I had only one morning there, I felt I wanted to get atleast something...!
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


You will always find digital different than film. One is not better than the other just different. In time you will prefer the 5D to 35mm film.

DxO; [a href=\"http://info.dxo.com/landing/dxo_optics_pro.php?ref=adwords&campaign=general&adgroup=company&ad=020&gclid=CLmu8YTK4Y4CFRrpIgodOE3pUg]http://info.dxo.com/landing/dxo_optics_pro...CFRrpIgodOE3pUg[/url]

You download a module for your lens and camera.

The sceen you posted would be better if a RAW was processed for the sky and another for the coast and water then blended in photoshop or photomatix. If you send me the raw (one without the filter being used?)I'll take a shot at it then walk you through the steps.
Marc
mach1acoustics@hotmail.com

you can compress the dynamic range better in PS than with the filter

Marc
« Last Edit: September 26, 2007, 01:58:26 pm by marcmccalmont »
Logged
Marc McCalmont

Rick Donhauser

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2007, 01:06:27 pm »

Chris,

You might try photographing the images two ways: 1.without the filter, with daylight color balance, in raw and bracket. 2. with your filter, with day light color balance, in raw and bracket.

Then process the raw image.  

Having tried Photoshop, DXO and Canon DPP(free).  I think the Canon DPP default image is the most standard film like and skin tones are good too. Your image will come up as it is shot and then you can tweak it.  Remember you can set the camera for any color balance and in the raw software you can then change it to any colorbalance you want.  Also you can change the picture style from "standard" to "landscape" (more saturated greens), "faithfull" and "neutral"(less contrasty).

Sometimes if the light latitude is not too great you could process the image once for the highlights and then again for the shadow areas.  Then take the two images into photoshop and combine the best of both.  If the latitude is too great then use one of the bracketed images to layer.  Then you could add the color equivalent of your filter to the image.  

You could also use a standard ND filter and then change the color in software.

Bottom line using DPP, their standard conversion and daylight white balance even with your filter I think you might get better results right out of the gate.

All the best.
Logged

Jonathan Wienke

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5829
    • http://visual-vacations.com/
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2007, 03:20:48 pm »

To get the best out of digital capture, you need to get over some of your erroneous preconceptions about digital capture, like that adjusting the white balance setting in the RAW is a "digital manipulation" or that using a ND grad is always superior to shooting bracketed exposures and blending in PS. Neither of these notions have any validity. Except for a polarizer, and in some cases a straight ND (for when you want very long shutter speeds in bright conditions), filters are something best done in Photoshop, not in front of the lens. Proccesing a RAW twice with different exposure and white balance settings and blending in PS is no different conceptually than dodging and burning in the darkroom, or using color filters on an enlarger to get the print to have the correct color balance. The only difference is that doing so digitally is a more sophisticated and controllable method than the equivalent darkroom techniques.

The sample image you posted is rather spoiled by the unnatural darkening of the land above the horizon; if you had bracketed and blended digitally, you could have kept all of the land in the same tonal range, and deal with lighthouses or rocks or trees that keep the boundary between the bright and dark areas of the photo from falling along a perfectly straight line. Most good landscape compositions have such obstacles that guarantee using a graduated ND will cause something or other to be unnnaturally bright or dark, so your argument about "getting it right in the camera" is bovine excrement in more than 95% of situations, as demonstrated by your own sample image.

You've gotten some good advice in this thread, but it's your attitude that needs adjusting if you want to get the most out of digital capture. If you know best, why did you post here in the first place?
Logged

jbrembat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2007, 04:18:17 pm »

The posted image is not sRGB, it has Adobe 1998 profile embedded.
I think you have to check your color management workflow.

Jacopo
Logged

Diapositivo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
    • http://
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2007, 08:04:05 pm »

I think, "ideological differences" apart, we could be more helpful if you could describe your problem more precisely. Which filters do you have problem using for instance. I shoot slides, I suppose though that if you use an amber filter to warm a sunset, and then instruct your RAW developer to use a 5500 Kelvin WB, you are yourself "defeating" your filter (re-correcting it toward neutral).

Use of Neutral density filters should not give you problems with WB, I guess. (Yes you can do that later in PS only if the scene is entirely within your DSLR's dynamic range. You would use ND filters if the scene spans beyond the maximum tolerable dynamic range, to avoid clipping, for which PS is no remedy).

The RAW file is some sort of a negative before development. The same negative (a black & white one) can be developed in several different ways. The same developed negative can be printed in several different ways. So different "developers" (different RAW conversion software, such as PS and Capture One) with different default settings (and because of different internal algorithms) can produce a different final output just like two different persons would produce two different prints from the same negative, and none would be "the realistic one" more than the other (though certainly some can be very irrealistic, you have a broad range of entirely "realistic" but different possibilities).

But if you "play" with your raw conversion software you can obtain the result that, in your memory and taste, is the realistic/pleasant one. In photography, even objectivity is a very subjective matter. Even if your goal is a "realistic" look, you must constantly making choices (subjective choices) in order to obtain the "realistic" look you want. Even when shooting slides, when you are confronted with a scene with a contrast exceeding the exposure latitude of your film, you have to make a choice. Any choice (sacrifying low lights, sacrifying high lights, staying in the middle and sacrifying a bit of both ends) is "objective" and "subjective" at the same time.

So there is not an objective, "faithful" way to extract and image from your RAW. RAW is useful, in your case, because by manipulating it you can arrive to that "objective" and "real" look which you look for. That means working with levels, curves, contrast, white balance, sharpening, dodging, whatever. At the end of the process, you get an "objective" picture, and never before. Somebody else will come out with a different, yet equally objective picture. Photography has always been like that (printed matter at least).

As far as the "bitty" images are concerned, I don't understand if you mean too grainy, too noisy (in that case you should check your ISO setting and keep it low for best results) or if maybe there is too unsharp mask applied to the RAW file (you should check your RAW conversion program). Actually check that your RAW conversion software supports exactly your camera. If it doesn't the result is likely to look weird and "bitty".

Regarding the "manipulation" of the image, I would like to tell you that I have seen no image that does not need manipulation to look natural. For instance, when you set WB for tungsten lights, you are falsifying your image. The white wall actually IS yellowish, and the blue ashtray actually IS brownish, under incandescent light. Your eyes see it as yellowish, brownish. But your memory - which has seen the wall and the ashtray in daylight - knows the wall is white and the ashtray is blue, and "adjusts" them to the colours it wants to see. With a bit of attention, you will soon notice that a white wall enlighted only by a blue sky is actually quite blueish. You will very easily notice the yellow colour of the white wall. You will easily see how a white car appears reddish if parked near a red one (with light reflected from the red one). Under tungsten light we apply WB (or blue filters, or different films) as a way to distort and falsify actual colours so that we can see them on the image just as we (our memory) want them to be, not as they objectively are. We know the car is white and "don't expect" that, near a blue car, the white car is actually blueish. The white marble statue you remember as white and upon which you set the gray point to eliminate the blue cast, was not white at all, objectively speaking only the blue cast is true. Really with a bit of attention you will see this blue cast everywhere in the shade on cloudless days. Saying that the daylight film is calibrated for 5500 K and not good for tungsten light is not really true. 5500K film is just perfect to reproduce your wall under tungsten light, because in that moment that wall is actually THAT yellowish (OK that is not entirely true, response of films is different from human eyes, but you get the point). Many more examples regarding exposure, focusing etc. could be made in order to demonstrate that the photographic process requires image manipulation in order to give a "natural" outcome, human brain and eyes do not work like films and sensors, monitors, printers etc.. Your mind scans the scene and focuses everything. You can never look something and see it out of focus. We focus portraits on the eyes because those are what we look first and more often. But in reality, we will never see the background out of focus.    

Sorry if I went outside of the scope of your question, but with your reference to "digitally altering the image" you made me quite impossible to resist the temptation to debate on it a bit  

You might say: when you shoot slides and you project them on a screen, you don't alter the colours and you have an objective vision. True, that's not manipulated. The constructive choices of the film maker try to mimic as much as they can the human vision. But humans are different, and the film which looks natural to my eyes (Astia) might look innatural to yours, and the film which looks innatural to my eyes (Velvia) might look "objective" to yours. And you have the limit of exposure latitude, which gives you a different picture than what your eyes saw. Also your lenses gave you a different perspective. Are they "true"? Or they "optically and prospectically manipulate" reality?
If you use a shift lens (or a shifting camera), you are getting parallel skyscrapers lines, which might look natural to our minds but, believe me, do not exists nowhere in nature, the laws of perspective being true for our eyes as for our cameras. So - again - you use shifting lenses in order to falsify reality so that it may appear more realistic!

Cheers
Fabrizio
Logged

BernardLanguillier

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13983
    • http://www.flickr.com/photos/bernardlanguillier/sets/
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2007, 08:21:22 pm »

Quote
ND grads are a means to balance contrast only within a scene. This is not 'altering the image' as you like to put it, as we are not adding something that is not there, neither are we adding colour or anything else for that matter, purely to record what our natural eyes see and can compensate for. Why would I want to spend time on a PC creating ND grads, when I can pull one out of my case and use it there and then? Ive had these kind of discussions with people before, and as far as I can see, the digital medium has robbed photography of the technical ability and skill it takes to aquire an image, in its natural form. Yes digital has opened a new way, but it doesnt make it the best or the correct way...Even if I get it wrong, Id rather test my thinking than make it easy on myself, its not a way I want to work...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=141952\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Capturing a scene the best possible way remains necessary in the digital world as well.

The thing is that a double/triple digital exposure with blending in PS offers much more flexibility that ND grad filters.

Besides some seascapes or desert scenes where the horizon is distant and flat, I have personnally never seen a landscape image captured with a Grad filter that I found natural. I love some of the work of Galen Rowell, but many of his images are IMHO ruined by the use of grad filters.

I still whoot 4x5 and have to use my Lee grads when I do so, but I find it to be an incredibly un-refined way of dealing with the issue after having work with digital blending.

Digital blending does IMHO a much better job at rendering a scene in a natural way close to what our eyes could see. It is much more proficient than Grad filters at overcoming the limitations of photographic equipment, even if it requires a different set of skills, logistics and planning.

The following image is a panorama/digital exposure blend that would have been very hard/impossible to capture with filters.



Cheers,
Bernard

NikosR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
    • http://
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 12:10:34 am »

chrisfranceuk,

I think that what most people in here would agree to is that it is perfectly OK for anyone to hold their views about what is right or wrong, what works better for them, what they should or shouldn't do when photographing.

What is not OK is to hold strong views and preconceptions WHEN YOU HAVE NOT STUDIED AND ARE NOT RELATIVELY PROFICIENT in all the alternative techniques.

Now, it is obvious to me from your postings that you lack the necessary base understanding of how digital capture and post processing works. You lack understanding of the principles. You freely admit that but the problem is that at the same time you express strong views about the very things you don't understand. I also get the feeling that you lack proper understanding of what film capture is all about (hint: it is not God given), and here's where all your problems start.

Do yourself a favour. Get your hands on a digital photography primer, work through it, understand the basic principles, and then you'll be able to freely form (and defend) your own opinion about what works best for you.

Everybody in here will be pleased to answer specific questions, and don't think that any questions are considered too naive (most everybody but especially the older photographers amongst us had to go through the same learning, or re-learning, curve so very few of your questions might surprise us. We all had the same questions at some point).

You've been given good advice in many of the previous posts. Open your mind and try to make the best of it. The key to that is to, at least temporarily, remove the 'good thing - bad thing' filter (pun intented) from your mind.

What many people react to is negative attitude.


Now, to come back to your original message. You pose too many questions in a couple of sentences which gives me the impression that you are, understandably, frustrated with the digital process and that you have not managed to tackle your frustration by trying to break your questions down to manageable chunks. Manageable both for you and for the people that would like to answer your questions.

I will attempt to give a short (and by necessity not 100% accurate) answer to one of the questions you're posing, a fundamental one. What is the conceptual difference between jpeg output from your camera and RAW output and what happens with your in-camera settings when you open the RAW image to be processed in a RAW processor.

As already said in previous posts, the basic digital capture is only a series of digital values representing light intensity at each separate sensor photo site. Each site on the sensor is covered by a primary colour filter (R, G , B ) There are two basic things that must be done at that stage to get a meaningful image:

1. Interpolate the sensor data taking into consideration the pattern of the filter array in front of the sensor, to assign to each 'pixel' of the digital image an approriate intensity for each of the 3 colour channels.

2. Decide about some very important things that have to do with the interpretation to an image of the data file produced in 1. The basic issues are:

     a. Assign a sensible colour value to each pixel based on the colour channel values assigned in step 1

     b. Decide on the contrast of the image.

Now, while Step 1 is more or less automatic (i.e. there are no controls provided for the photographer to play with affecting its outcome), Step 2 provides controls like WB, colour response, saturation, contrast etc.

Each photograph has to go through both of these steps in order for an image to be produced.

Now, the question lies, where exactly this process takes place and how is it controlled by the photographer? There are 2 basic options:

1. Do everything in the camera. Remember your 5D is also a little computer on top of being an image capturing intermediate in the traditional sense. That is what happens when you select jpeg or tiff output straight from the camera, the so called 'cooked' formats. The controls that affect Step 2 are the picture settings in your camera menu. (Sidenote: In order for the camera to produce an image on its LCD screen, these steps always take place regardless if you don't want them output, i.e. you select RAW output as below)

2. Decide that you do not want Steps 1 and 2 performed in camera but you prefer to have them performed in an external computer. Then you want to select RAW output and have Steps 1 and 2 performed in a RAW processor program in your computer at your own time. RAW processors provide for much better control of the Step2 process than the few controls the camera provides you with.

So OK. You selected RAW output so that you can take your time performing Steps 1 and 2 in an external computer. Do your in camera settings have any relevance? In general NO as you have to remember that these where just the controls to affect processing in Step 2 in camera. The RAW processor will provide you with more and better controls.

However, some cameras choose to include in the RAW files information about the camera settings in effect at the time the picture was taken. Some RAW converters, usually the ones provided by the camera manufacturers, give you the option to honour these settings, usually as defaults for the controls of Step 2. This is just an additional convenience and can be overuled, since, as I hope you have understood by now, all processing is performed in the RAW converter.

To your question about why using different RAW processors appears to produce different output  the answer, by now, should be obvious. They use different methods and different defaults for the controls of Step 2 (and also use different methods for performing Step 1).


I hope all of the above helps.

Nikos


PS1. Film hints: Get the same photo with Velvia and with Astia. Good God! That is not the same picture! The camera must be lying to me! Even worse, use a colour negative film. Look! It came out all orangy and with the wrong colours underneath!

PS2 and somewhat OT: It's funny but I have seen it time and time again. It usually is the slide shooting Velvia people that seem to have more problems getting in terms, philosophicaly, with the digital technique rather than the BW film and darkroom 'traditionalists'. It is obvious why, if you think about it.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:26:06 pm by NikosR »
Logged
Nikos

jbrembat

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 177
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2007, 12:42:11 pm »

Let me know if your shot was similar to this.


Jacopo
Logged

Jonathan Ratzlaff

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2007, 03:42:53 pm »

Because there is no sun in the image you posted, You don't need to use a grad.  The dynamic range of a digital sensor such as the 5D is something like 10 stops compared to 5 stops with slide film.  It is a whole different ball game and you need to throw away the rules that you learned with slide film when it comes to dynamic range.   Just make sure that your highlights are properly exposed and you are good to go.
Logged

chrisfranceuk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2007, 07:34:29 am »

Quote
so your argument about "getting it right in the camera" is bovine excrement in more than 95% of situations, as demonstrated by your own sample image.
You've gotten some good advice in this thread, but it's your attitude that needs adjusting if you want to get the most out of digital capture. If you know best, why did you post here in the first place?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142010\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

jon, grow up...its people like you why i dont bother with forums...
Logged

chrisfranceuk

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2007, 07:58:34 am »

to those who think im 'not proficient' or have 'bad attitudes' listen. i came on this site for help, and have been honest enough to say so. i dont 'know it all' ok and never have come across to say i do. im trying to find answers to questions, that is all. people on here have given me great advice and are trying to help, and this is what i was after and is very appreciated. to those who have started 'internet arguments' shall we say, i dont know why this has happened at all. 'jon's' comment on manipulating the image got me wound up because it was a deliberate bite at what i was saying, nikosr, youre getting at me coz youre saying im not proficient etc etc and saying about my attitude...i suggest you re-read my post propperly and you will see i havent been rude or short about anything for goodness sake! ive come on here for some help...how can i be saying i know it all? both of you need to stop getting on your high horses and just offer some practical advice, thats all i wanted in the first place? so can we be adults and drop this please?

now all im trying to say is that since getting the 5D, i just cant seem to get a natural, clear, sharp image even shooting RAW. i dont know whether theres a setting is my PS2 or if im shooting wrong? lets forget filtering techniques seeing id rather use filters,and you guys would rather blend, thats personal shooting methods, but why...to me anyway, does this shot look very 'digitised'. surely by looking at it, it doesnt look 'real'...if i look at other photographers work, their 5D images are tack sharp and just as good as velvia...i dont understand what im doing wrong...ok..this image was shot RAW, its at ISO50, 6 secs @ f/18, 17mm on a 17-40 L lens...WB was set manually to 5500K. on tripod, using mirror lock and cable release...ive tried processing in PS2 and CaptureOne LE. There is noise, actually quite a bit, which for a camera which supposed great low noise, i find a bit worrying. i dont sharpen in RAW as i find more control in PS2. All i did was slightly give it some colour sat, mild s-curve, WB to 5500K...does this help you guys better?
Logged

Ronny Nilsen

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 361
    • The Quiet Landscape
Poor Canon 5D Images HELP!
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2007, 08:36:58 am »

Quote
..if i look at other photographers work, their 5D images are tack sharp and just as good as velvia...i dont understand what im doing wrong...ok..this image was shot RAW, its at ISO50, 6 secs @ f/18, 17mm on a 17-40 L lens...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=142403\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 17-40 lens might not be the best lens around, I tried one once and it was very soft in the corners
on my 5D. And at f/18 diffraction starts to set in, but is probably not your problem here. Difficult to say
with a downsized images that always look sharp... and I would stick to ISO 100 to get better DR and
preserve highlights and put a ND filter in front if I wanted the same shutter speed.

I think you will be better of doing WB in the raw-converter instead of putting a filter in front with manual
WB setting. Putting a filter in front is only going to degrade (manipulate?   ) you image.
If you want correct colors, take a shot of a WiBall to get the correct temp and apply that in the
raw-converter.

Regards,
Ronny
Logged
Ronny A. Nilsen
www.ronnynilsen.com
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up