MAJOR APTUS PROBLEMS

[pss]

JT whoever you are, this is an open forum where people value other peoples opinions based on some kind of trust, which usually starts with a real name or website....

why are you quoting a story that hasn't happened to you? i get bashed for telling my personal hasselblad stories, you are just recounting someone else's experience and you won't even put your name under it? how do you expect to be taken seriously?

on the other hand the story sounds (as everybody who has ever owned a leaf back knows from thier own experience) sadly too true.....yes they should have had back-up, of course.....but it probably would not have helped them anyway if it was a software/connection issue.....you could have 10 leaf backs there, if the software won't connect oyu are out of luck.....

so besides the questionable quote and messenger, the core is still why can't leaf produce a really stable software solution for tethered shooting? or why is a 3?4?5? year old V8 still the only real option to shoot tethered? with camera raw, aperture, LR out there to deal with the files, it cannot be THAT hard to come up with a way to connect the f...ing back to the f....ng computer!!!! phase does it, canon does it, nikon does it, sigma does it, hasselblad, sinar...everybody can do it but leaf!

there is nothing wrong with the backs or the imagequality at all, but in a commercial work environment today, shooting tetherd is a must.....like it or not...that is what people expect....to see the files pop up....

i guess i just don't see the problem if phase can provide a solution which is truly plug and play....i don't even think twice about pulling the FW cable during a shoot if i want to get in closer/whatever....shoot to card, plug the FW back in, shot to HD..all without the slightest worry that a file might go missing or i get some connection error......it even works for me now that i really only shoot "through" C1 into LR...simply no problems....

no matter how good the next greatest leaf backs are....the damage the software problems are doing is starting to look bad.....a photographer friend of mine is starting to look into DMF backs and asked me....i told him to look at everything including the aptus...he said that he has heard too many stories in his agency with bad experiences...same situation...experienced shooters, rented backs, big productions, problems...there is enough that can and will go wrong...this really shouldn't be so frequent.....one of the photographers even said that an AD made sure that he would not rent a leaf back, because he had come from a shoot with problems.....maybe these guys don't know much about equipment, but they take notice of what makes problems on set......

[rainer_v]

i dont like anonymous posters usually, althoug i have met also some real "names" here which preferred not to use their name.... so no rule without exception.
but i really like to see with whom i chat or better, see some examples of his work.

sorry me to be a little of-topic, but the treat changed in several directions and responsability of the companies was one of these....

me, i am happy for the  brumbaer tools, resulting from the (huge) amount of testing and developing we did in that last year  ( around 40 ! version till the one which you can download now ).....
no crashes, fast, stable and hi quality. it catapulted my back in a workflow which is incomparable to the "standard".
how its possible that a product, developed by 1,5 persons, can deliver better results than this big companies are creating, and  20 - 50 people are many, compared to a little crew of one photographer and one programmer, isn't it? i dont understand this completely,-
but its at least very interesting to see.
maybe it has something to do that we have been in direct and daily contact, meanwhile i was shooting stephan was programming and resolving the mistakes we found.... and of-course he is a great programmer,- but professional work should be the fundament of us all, isn't it?

for me its hard to understand that all these companies are not able to create stable and fast softwares, further  most of them have not been able to pull out what their own back can produce in the highlight areas. here are  huge differences from sw to sw ( about 2 stops-!! ),- just a pity that you only realize that in direct comparision, but than it can be more than astonishing.

why ? maybe because the companies struggle to develop their next generation sensors and there is no manpower to resolve the products which are actually in the market,- and people go crazy with future announcements......

even the big players as canon or nikon deliver software work-flows to run away.... , dont they have some competent photographers which help to design an intelligant workflow, or whats going on here? i understand it just in fragments. crazy digital age....


backwards:
what helps a backup back if the software dont work?  you mean... you need a complete backup set. computer, cables, backs, cameras,- dont forget the backup tripoid.
great idea to travel with that and to shoot jobs as architecture or landscape.

[JTFOTO]

I agree that everyone should have a back up.  But what does the back up cost to have on set?  $750 to $2,000.00 for the day.  With the cost consultants already eating at budgets, how do you say add an extra G for back up.  Yeah they won't laugh at that?!    

For the lower budget editorials you show up on set with your own gear and have minimal rental budgets and try to pinch a penny where ever you can.

If you have back ups, I think it should be the responsibility of the rental house.  If they tell me, OK you can go on set with either a Phase One or an Aptus with no back up.  I am going with Phase,
hands down!

Yes the back worked with CF cards, but as PSS said, clients want pop ups on the screen in real time.

It's the way it is.

I luckily have not had an AD say no LEAF.  But that is brilliant!  AD's that know nothing of gear and now know that LEAF's can be a problem on set.

Got love it

[NBP]

JT, the only conclusion that I can draw from your original account is that your "friend" only has himself to blame for the situation that he found himself in.
IMO, he should be having a long, hard examination of his professional head if he thinks that going to a shoot of this size with so many clients and infrastructure present, with no back up for the capture of the actual image, is a sane way to go about one's business.

Firewalls should be a basic professional discipline: Shit happens - be prepared for it.

Personally, I still have a small emergency back up bag in my car containing my RZ film & polaroid backs, about 20 rolls of film & a couple of packs of polaroid.
Fortunately it gathers dust, but at least I have the option to blow it off.

[pss]

I agree that everyone should have a back up.  But what does the back up cost to have on set?  $750 to $2,000.00 for the day.  With the cost consultants already eating at budgets, how do you say add an extra G for back up.  Yeah they won't laugh at that?!    


[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113119\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the shoot as you described had trucks, police,.....i really don't think an extra couple of 100$ would have made a difference.....


think about it this way.....the amount of money spent on a national ad campaign has 2 components: the production and the execution (printing, buying ad space,.....) no matter how big the production number is, it is nothing compared to the second number....so having 2 backs on site is no luxury in my book....of course budgets are getting tighter....i would rather have a second back then a digital tech...

[JTFOTO]

PSS

I agree.

It wasn't my friend.  It was TH's friend or TH himself.  I always have two digital backs and my 1DsII body with me anywhere I go shoot. Unless it is a low budget editorial and then I have Canon and my Valeo (which has not failed) other than the connector cord to the battery/Hard drive rig.

rehnniar

I agree about your brumbaer product.  i don't use it but everyone here and the sinar guys rave about it.  How can 1.5 guys make a product that 50 guys can't?  And Sinar and Leaf are using the same chip!

Can you get together with RawDeveloper guy and make a killer ap that works for $199.99.  I am sure every LEAF guy will buy it.

That tells you something about 50 guys sitting in Isreal looking at each other wondering what to do next.  Concerned that they were bought by Kodak who makes the competitions chip.

Is there any conflict there?  I wonder, enquiring minds want to know?

HMMMM,, there is something to think about.

Go Kodak, Go Kodak, Go Go Go Kodak, if you can't do it nobody can! insert jumping cheerleaders.    

[adammork]

When reading this threads complaining about Leaf, I do got the feeling that I most be the most lucky photographer on the planet, since I manage to get beautiful files out of my Aptus 75 day after day……...

Since I’m an architectural photographer I do not shoot 2000 files per day, but when shooting to my MacBook Pro 17” I connect/disconnect 30-50 times per day too version 10.1 beta 070218 with none/no/zero issues what so ever!!

Same experience with the version before.

The earlier versions where not that stable.

There is the known problem with the 17” MacBook Pro, that it need to be connected to the power supply most of the time due to low voltage on the firewire bus, if the battery goes under 85% in power it’s a must, but the setup as it is now is 100% stable in my case.

I do not use V10 for development but prefer Lightroom instead - but that’s an other story.

Again, maybe I’m just lucky  

Very best,
Adam

[Gustavo_Marx]

When reading this threads complaining about Leaf, I do got the feeling that I most be the most lucky photographer on the planet, since I manage to get beautiful files out of my Aptus 75 day after day……...

Since I’m an architectural photographer I do not shoot 2000 files per day, but when shooting to my MacBook Pro 17” I connect/disconnect 30-50 times per day too version 10.1 beta 070218 with none/no/zero issues what so ever!!


Again, maybe I’m just lucky   

Very best,
Adam
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113151\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You are not alone and actually I do photograph 2000 files per day with no issues.
I love my back ( A75 ) and have no problems with it.

Gustavo

[heinrichvoelkel]

PSS

I agree.

It wasn't my friend.  It was TH's friend or TH himself.  I always have two digital backs and my 1DsII body with me anywhere I go shoot. Unless it is a low budget editorial and then I have Canon and my Valeo (which has not failed) other than the connector cord to the battery/Hard drive rig.

rehnniar

I agree about your brumbaer product.  i don't use it but everyone here and the sinar guys rave about it.  How can 1.5 guys make a product that 50 guys can't?  And Sinar and Leaf are using the same chip!

Can you get together with RawDeveloper guy and make a killer ap that works for $199.99.  I am sure every LEAF guy will buy it.

That tells you something about 50 guys sitting in Isreal looking at each other wondering what to do next.  Concerned that they were bought by Kodak who makes the competitions chip.

Is there any conflict there?  I wonder, enquiring minds want to know?

HMMMM,, there is something to think about.

Go Kodak, Go Kodak, Go Go Go Kodak, if you can't do it nobody can! insert jumping cheerleaders.    
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113130\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Up to this post I was thinking...JT..just shut the f... up....but you`re true with this. If Brumbaer can do it, why the others not?!

Still, cool down.

And about back up. A roll of 120 is about 20 $ with processing and contacts. May be not instant, but still a viable option for the worst case. F... deadlines anyway.

[yaya]

Here is what I posted earlier today on the Leaf forum. At this point I think that any furhter grinding of that case is meaningless:

All,

thank you for posting and sharing your experiences and concerns, I would like to inform that we have contacted the photographer who had this crisis on the day he´s reported it. We are following up and analyzing the source and possible cause of the described issues.
Of course if the back has developed a FW problem it will be repaired under warranty.

This morning the photographer has informed us that after replacing the FW cable, the system seems to be running OK during a quick test. He is on a busy schedule and advised that as soon as he finds time to go through additional tests (computer/ system/ software and back) he will get in touch with the local support team.

I shall report again as soon as we have a conclusion for this case.

Best regards,

Yair"

As far as "general reliability" is concerned, statistically, the TBF (Time Between Failures) of Leaf backs is over 1,500 days. This is considered to be a very good figure at any standard in any industry.

I don't know the figures of other MFDB manufacturers and I assume they have their own statistics.

As many stated before, information on forums can be very useful with the risk of being misleading.

Count the number of REAL posters on this forum and do the math yourself...I'm affraid it does not necessarily reflect the reality of our industry. The majority of cases are solvable over a phone call to a trained dealer or to the local rep.

Yair

[BlasR]

Yaya,
You are very professional, is look like JT is a trouble maker, don't waist your time with him.

BlasR

[Sami Kulju]

I have never had one problem with my valeo other than I have to shoot tethered with a bulky brick underneath my camera.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113081\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

As far as I remember from the times I used Valeo, you dont need any bricks under camera when shooting tethered. But if you like to use it untethered and shoot to "portable kit" you have a hard disk and batteries under the camera body.

sami

[Sami Kulju]

You are not alone and actually I do photograph 2000 files per day with no issues.
I love my back ( A75 ) and have no problems with it.

Gustavo
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113154\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Add me to positive experiences list.

Earlier I used Valeo 17 with no problems tethered or to portable kit for 1,5 years.

Now Aptus 17 with Mamiya AFD for 2 years and no problems. 90% of the time I use Aptus in location tethered to either iMac or PB 12". 5% untethered in location and 5% in studio tethered.

Aptus have been in locations from  -20C to +38C. In sand and in snow. Rooftops and factories. I have dropped it at least twice and once it fall with camera in tripod cause "someone" stepped not over cable.

300 - 1500 shots per day. If i need to shoot very fast I use 8.3.3 (i dont upgrade since it works).
If I need big previews and we are not in hurry I use LC 10.0.4 (2).

Sometimes I change between those programs several times a day and no problems.

FW cables are like sync cables used to be. The weak thing that must be replaced every now and then. We always carry 2 spare cables in camera bag and one extra in laptop case.

Yes - LC 10 could be better and Leaf has been doing it for ages. But I have not missed a single picture because of that. I have stable workflow with the tools available at the moment.

And we have a backup with us always. Like we did in film days.

sami

[Dustbak]

As far as I remember from the times I used Valeo, you dont need any bricks under camera when shooting tethered. But if you like to use it untethered and shoot to "portable kit" you have a hard disk and batteries under the camera body.

sami
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113214\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

That is possible, indeed the brick is there to put the disk in so it is not necessary to use tethered but many people apparently leave the brick attached to the body. I preferred to take a 1m5 firewire cord, put the disk in my pocket, route the cable through my shirt and shoot that way.

I love the fact I can shoot to CF now.

[Gustavo_Marx]

I preferred to take a 1m5 firewire cord, put the disk in my pocket, route the cable through my shirt and shoot that way.

I love the fact I can shoot to CF now.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113217\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hey Dustbak,

I used to do the same in the old days, and sometimes in the actual days, using the Dm as a battery.

g

[awofinden]

yes JTPHOTO, no more blasphamy please, before you make any posts about equipment failing you should first, do a poll on all the users of that product and if it hasen't happened to at least a good proportion of users then you shouldnt tell us about the problem. People like you who expect a 30 thousand dollar piece of equipment to work reliablly as advertised really get my goat you know.

[SecondFocus]

I have now used the Leaf 65 on a Mamiya 645 twice courtesy of MAC Group and my local Leaf rep for evaluation. My use is for ad work. Both shoots were pretty costly studio shoots and failure was not an option. So you can be sure I had a lot of back up gear on site for everything.

The only problems I had was my own fumbling somewhat becuase of the newness of the software to me but bit all worked out. I had to make a phone call to my Leaf rep for a quick question. And I had a firewire cable that was getting a little tired so it got retired.

I can say I like the Leaf, I like the Mamiya and more than that I like the support. This is a good size purchase so I have been doing my home work and at this point I would have no problems with making the Leaf purchase.

[robert zimmerman]

as we all know, the leaf software is its achilles heel. it could and should be much better, much faster  and more stable. but it's not, and that my friends, is also something we all know and have known for years now.
there are work arounds, but it's far from perfect.

on the other hand, although phase one software is more mature, it is also far from "rock" solid. i've used the software on several occasions and i've never, i repeat never had a tethered shoot where it didn't go down at least once. usually more than once and with several little hick-ups during shoots.

there is no perfect solution, just as there is no perfect camera. it's horses for courses and cover your arse as best you can.

all in all, i'm very happy with leaf products...

[godtfred]

People like you who expect a 30 thousand dollar piece of equipment to work reliablly as advertised really get my goat you know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

         
ROFLMAO

[pss]

yes JTPHOTO, no more blasphamy please, before you make any posts about equipment failing you should first, do a poll on all the users of that product and if it hasen't happened to at least a good proportion of users then you shouldnt tell us about the problem. People like you who expect a 30 thousand dollar piece of equipment to work reliablly as advertised really get my goat you know.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=113249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]