Moire - will it show up in print?

[Dinarius]

Here is a detail of an image shot with a Canon 5D..........

http://homepage.eircom.net/~theplayer/2_MG_1536.jpg

If you save the image to your desktop and open it in Photoshop at 33%, the moire is clearly visible either side of the bolt of lightening.

However, if you Ctrl/+ and increase the image size to 50%, the moire disappears.

What I want to know is, does the same apply in printing? Would the moire be visible (or not) at different print sizes?

Viewing the full-size image produces the same problem. Moire at 33%, none at 50%, a little at 66% and none at 100%.

Is this a monitor thing only, or is it also a print problem?

This print, and 500 others, will be viewable on an online database. What is the best way of avoiding this problem online, since that is the way that most people will see them? How, for eample, can I apply the 50% (no moire) size to say a thumbnail image (there will be many images per page on the database)?

Many thanks.

D.

ps......No, amazing as it may seem, I don't own a printer! ;-)

[Johnny V]

It's a monitor thing!

If viewing at 100% and no moire than there is none in the file.

Viewing at odd percentages in Photoshop is only a representation of the pixels on the monitor, not the actual pixels. 100% shows the actual pixels.

[Dinarius]

Johnny,

Many thanks. But, one further question.........

When I open one of these files (they were slightly cropped in ACR before conversion) in CS2, it says @ 25% in the file info at the top of the image window and in the left hand corner of the image window.

Yet, if I choose View/Print Size, the image only slightly increases to 28.79% and the moire is still clearly visible.

If I choose View/Actual pixels, the image increase to 100% and the moire is gone.

So, will I still have a problem in print or not?

Thanks again.

D.

[jani]

Johnny,

Many thanks. But, one further question.........

When I open one of these files (they were slightly cropped in ACR before conversion) in CS2, it says @ 25% in the file info at the top of the image window and in the left hand corner of the image window.

Yet, if I choose View/Print Size, the image only slightly increases to 28.79% and the moire is still clearly visible.

If I choose View/Actual pixels, the image increase to 100% and the moire is gone.

So, will I still have a problem in print or not?

Thanks again.

D.

The moiré you see on screen is related to the display software, and may display artifacts that you won't see in a print.

Remember: LCD pixels are square, while the details in a print aren't.

As you say, you don't own a printer, and the only way you can actually find out whether the particular moiré patterns you see will be visible in a print, is to print it.

[Richowens]

If the moire changes with screen magnification, then it will not show in a print.

If it does not change, it will show in a print.

Rich

[Dinarius]

Thanks guys. You've made my weekend!

But, as jani implies, it's about time I bought a printer. Having spent 20 years handing over trannies to designers, I've been reluctant to hand over anything but CDs/DVDs for the last two years! ;-)

The time has come........

D.

[David WM]

As the others said, there is no Moire in your file if you can't see any at 100% on your monitor. Moire can still occur in the print process, especially with an image like that one, so be careful of making any blanket guarentees to a client. If it is part of your job to follow it right through then I'd be testing the size of repro with the reproduction method, but hopefully that is someone elce's job, especially as you have supplied a Moire free file. It could become one of those blurry areas where the finger gets pointed at the photographer if something goes wrong somewhere elce in the production process. I'd imagine if that image was sent to offset print as a small print there could be issues.
David

Thanks guys. You've made my weekend!

But, as jani implies, it's about time I bought a printer. Having spent 20 years handing over trannies to designers, I've been reluctant to hand over anything but CDs/DVDs for the last two years! ;-)

The time has come........

D.
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[taylorphoto]

Your best bet is to have a proper CMYK proof made that properly replicates the halftone pattern of the actual press conditions.  Your best bet is to have the printer run a proof off of their in-house system or directly off their press.  Not cheap but it will tell you for sure.  If you're printing off of an inkjet, you might want to consider increasing the print resolution (printer/rip side) this will help to eliminate moire if you're seeing any in the print.

[nemophoto]

I never view any image at 33%, or 66% for exactly the reason you've found. Nine times out of ten you end up with moire. Viewing an image at 50% is the most realistic magnification for seeing how an image will look in print (inkjet or offset), sharpened, etc. In fact, most work (other than retouching) I do at 50% for this reason. In fact, if I'm viewing images with a discerning eye, I use the "rule of halves" -- 100%, 50, 25, 12.5.