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Author Topic: PS CS3 still a 32 bits application  (Read 6968 times)

BernardLanguillier

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« on: December 27, 2006, 12:43:13 am »

http://blogs.adobe.com/scottbyer/2006/12/64_bitswhen.html

Most of what is written is obviously true, but I am sure that I am not alone to run into memory limitations when stitching large images, or post-processing scanned 4x5... which I do often.

I feel that Mr Byer is probably under-estimating the amount of people that would benefit from a lifting of the current memory limitations.

I can undertand Adobe's willingness to limit investement, but I personnally find the net outcome to be very disapointing.

Cheers,
Bernard

Schewe

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2006, 01:00:42 am »

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I can undertand Adobe's willingness to limit investement, but I personnally find the net outcome to be very disapointing.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92469\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

If you read what Scott wrote I think you'll see that he is a fan of 64 bit...but the fact is that only now-well soon-are we getting real 64 bit OS's with Vista and Leopard when they are released (I really wouldn't count XP-64 as mainstream) and Scott is not underestimating the difficulties nor the limited benefits-particularly for anybody without a real big 64 bit dual-core with a ton of ram. Which is not the typical machine config (although Intel and AMD would love to sell a lot).

Also, don't underestimate the drain on dev resources in having to do yet another Apple transition...although the net benefit will be there since Adobe can now concentrate on a single ship set for optimizations.

As he said, for Adobe and for Photoshop CS3, the time wasn't right. Yet...but, have you tried the beta in a 64 bit OS yet? It still will provide some bennies...
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BernardLanguillier

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2006, 01:58:18 am »

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As he said, for Adobe and for Photoshop CS3, the time wasn't right. Yet...but, have you tried the beta in a 64 bit OS yet? It still will provide some bennies...
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92470\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff,

Not yet, I'll give a try.

I am only now moving from PC to Mac (have both at the current time), and it seems that my Win CS2 license doesn't allow me to get a Intel Mac CS3 key, which I can understand.

Cheers,
Bernard

francois

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 03:44:32 am »

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...I am only now moving from PC to Mac (have both at the current time), and it seems that my Win CS2 license doesn't allow me to get a Intel Mac CS3 key, which I can understand....
Bernard,
You may want to email adobe about your Win CS 2 serial -> Mac CS 3.
This page has some info about platform switching:

<snip>Volume licensing customers, those wishing to switch platform (Windows to Mac or Mac to Windows), or those experiencing problems with serial numbers should send a message to PhotoshopCS3Beta@adobe.com.</snip>
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jani

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2006, 07:02:18 am »

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Most of what is written is obviously true, but I am sure that I am not alone to run into memory limitations when stitching large images, or post-processing scanned 4x5... which I do often.
Or if you're doing a manual batch-edit of 40-100 photos.

The theoretical advantage of the OS caching the scratch space is a cop-out. The scratch space will still have to be written to disk, which can slow other computer operations down. Sure, read access may be quicker, but it's not all about read access. And the OS that really provides the theoretical advantage that he touts, is one that isn't supported by Photoshop.

Photoshop users have found their way around this by e.g. creating RAM disks, but unfortunately, this leaves less room for the OS to be efficient in handling memory. (Which may be both good and bad, depending on how you look at it.)

He also overstates the memory bandwidth problem. Yes, it is a problem that memory bandwidth isn't increasing at the same rate as processor computing speed, but memory bandwidth for standard PC processors has increased by a factor of three since CS2 was released, in addition to gaining significantly better inter-processor memory performance in dual-core systems than in old dual-CPU systems.

That being said, most of his points are perfectly valid, but perhaps not quite in the way he presents them.

Quote
I feel that Mr Byer is probably under-estimating the amount of people that would benefit from a lifting of the current memory limitations.
I don't think he's underestimating the amount of people who would benefit today, but he's underestimating the amount of people who will during the lifetime of CS3.

I understand his views regarding compatibility with current users' systems, and the capabilities of current operating system platforms that Photoshop runs on. Someone is bound to jump in and say something about "what if Adobe had developed PS for Linux instead? Linux is 64-bit ...", but that's not really helpful, as long as the major user base is stuck with a 64-bit OS in betatesting with Microsoft's customers (XP 64-bit) or an incomplete implementation in Mac OS X 10.4.

I'm just a bit disappointed that he ignores the point that CS3 will be the standard Photoshop for the next two or three years, and will have the same limitations even when people are running "real" 64-bit Windows Vista and Mac OS X 10.5 (or 10.6).

What I think would be needed from Adobe, is the willingness to release an update with support for higher memory usage when "the time is right", rather than following this two to three year release cycle. I think it's almost certain that such a release would have merit in early 2008, and if not, at least later that year.
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DiaAzul

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2006, 07:54:58 am »

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I don't think he's underestimating the amount of people who would benefit today, but he's underestimating the amount of people who will during the lifetime of CS3.

If there were sufficient users on 64-bit OS Adobe would develop photoshop for 64-bit OS.

If there were applications for 64-bit OS then users would install 64-bit OS.

Which comes first the chicken or the egg?
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David Plummer    http://photo.tanzo.org/

jani

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2006, 08:00:23 am »

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If there were sufficient users on 64-bit OS Adobe would develop photoshop for 64-bit OS.

If there were applications for 64-bit OS then users would install 64-bit OS.
Mac users upgrading to Mac OS 10.5 will have a 64-bit capable OS, regardless of whether there were application for it or not.

Solaris users have had a 64-bit OS for a long time, as have IRIX, HP-UX, Tru64 and AIX users.

Linux and *BSD users have had a choice for several years.

Most of these OSes provide legacy support for 32-bit applications.

Windows users will get a choice with Vista, but unfortunately, the choice seems to be that the cheapest and most widely sold version won't be 64-bit capable.

Quote
Which comes first the chicken or the egg?
That depends on the definition of "chicken" and "egg".
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jjlphoto

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2006, 08:31:33 am »

Don't forget the added boost if you consider the newer SATA2 (SATA 3000) HD's for scratch.
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Schewe

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2006, 02:07:28 pm »

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What I think would be needed from Adobe, is the willingness to release an update with support for higher memory usage when "the time is right", rather than following this two to three year release cycle. I think it's almost certain that such a release would have merit in early 2008, and if not, at least later that year.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92486\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Actually, it's -NOT- a two to three year cycle...on average it's been 18-20 months over the life of the product. It's gonna be about 24/25 months from CS2 to CS3, but that is unusual in that Adobe had to deal with the integration of Macromedia as well as switch to an entirely new compiler for Xcode...I would expect to see CS4 in more like an 18 month cycle from the time CS3 is released...and by that time, yes, 64 bit -WILL- be more mainstream and much greater incentive and reason for doing multiple binaries...multiple? Yes, Adobe will -STILL- need to support PPC as well as continued MacIntel-so Universal Binary will be two binaries and then for Windows, it's a 32 bit AND a 64 bit.

Don't forget that Photoshop doesn't serve just the bleeding edge users but those prone to holding on to their investments over a long time period. In fact, it's the middle of the road users that subsidize the bleeding edge users. If Adobe developed Photoshop just for high-end users, the price point would be a -LOT- higher...
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djgarcia

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2007, 02:42:01 pm »

Under x64 with 8GB of RAM, the CS3 Performance prefs show 3.2GB memory available, vs. 2.7GB in CS2, all of which I assign to PS, so there is some gain in CS3. Also I read somewhere (maybe the 64 Bits when article?) about CS3 detecting the 64-bit environment and flipping a bit to do some extended mapping behind the scenes or some such, don't remember exactly what.

Now if I could only get my iPF5000 to work under x64 ...
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DiaAzul

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2007, 03:21:08 pm »

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Actually, it's -NOT- a two to three year cycle...on average it's been 18-20 months over the life of the product. It's gonna be about 24/25 months from CS2 to CS3, but that is unusual in that Adobe had to deal with the integration of Macromedia as well as switch to an entirely new compiler for Xcode...I would expect to see CS4 in more like an 18 month cycle from the time CS3 is released...and by that time, yes, 64 bit -WILL- be more mainstream and much greater incentive and reason for doing multiple binaries...multiple? Yes, Adobe will -STILL- need to support PPC as well as continued MacIntel-so Universal Binary will be two binaries and then for Windows, it's a 32 bit AND a 64 bit.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92531\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff,

Why does Adobe continue to support the apple platform? In recent history we have had any number of platform changes 68000 to PowerPC and PowerPC to Intel. As you point out this is impacting on Adobe's ability to move the Photoshop application forward as you need to re-engineer the product every time Apple makes a change. Surely we can all benefit by dropping support for Apple products?
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David Plummer    http://photo.tanzo.org/

jani

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2007, 04:12:20 pm »

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Jeff,

Why does Adobe continue to support the apple platform? In recent history we have had any number of platform changes 68000 to PowerPC and PowerPC to Intel. As you point out this is impacting on Adobe's ability to move the Photoshop application forward as you need to re-engineer the product every time Apple makes a change. Surely we can all benefit by dropping support for Apple products?
It seems to me that Adobe would be better served by reengineering their products for maximum portability instead.

After all, in recent history, we have had a number of platform changes; Windows 3.x, Windows 9x, Windows NT, Windows XP, Windows Vista ...

The above is written with tongue-in-cheek; I seem to recall that someone else mentioned that Adobe has indeed aimed for a higher portability in their code base, and kept the platform-specific code at a minimum. Perhaps that was Jeff in another post here in the LL arena.
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djgarcia

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2007, 04:25:44 pm »

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Surely we can all benefit by dropping support for Apple products?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Ouch! They may be a small minority of the overall home computing population, but they have large inroads in the graphics and photographic industry professional population. They're a small but important set of clients.

I for one leave Adobe's approach to their products in their hands. It's very easy to speculate from one vantage point or another, but the reality is much more complicated than the sum of those viewpoints. As a software professional, I'm well aware of the many pitfalls involved in all these generalizations and frankly am glad I don't need to deal with them on the scale they do. That's not to say I wouldn't do some things different, but ask ten developers and you'll get ten different answers.

My hat's off to the Adobe team as they cruise these turbulent waters and manage to provide an exceptional set of products and integrate them as well as possible given the circumstances (I also use MX Studio for my personal web development).
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Schewe

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2007, 05:54:44 pm »

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Why does Adobe continue to support the apple platform?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=93180\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Cause it's about 40% of Adobe's revenue? (and the engineers like Macs)

Silly question really...
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tived

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2007, 10:17:46 pm »

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Cause it's about 40% of Adobe's revenue? (and the engineers like Macs)

Silly question really...
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if they stopped supporting them, it would give them 100% revenue from Windows user :-)

the question is what does it cost to support that 40%?

Henrik

PS: I personally would have loved to have seen a 64-bit version of PS / creative suite, but perhaps we can get lightroom in 64bit instead ;-)
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ddolde

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2007, 03:38:31 pm »

So far the BETA demo does not take my serial number of CS2.  I tried the 30 day trial but it expired in a week.  

Not a good sign.
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djgarcia

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PS CS3 still a 32 bits application
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2007, 03:41:57 pm »

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So far the BETA demo does not take my serial number of CS2.  I tried the 30 day trial but it expired in a week. 

Not a good sign.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94382\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
You use the CS2 number to get a CS3 beta number, and that's the one you put into the app. Check out the FAQ for details on where to get it.

PS - Beautiful images in your gallery!
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 03:44:24 pm by djgarcia »
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