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Author Topic: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810  (Read 10477 times)

shadowblade

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2015, 12:33:00 am »

I rarely stitch with lenses wider than 55mm, in fact I typically carry only 2 lenses in the field for landscape work. The Otus 55mm (before that the Zeiss 50mm f2.0 Makro) and the Leica 180mm f2.8 APO.

I have done most of my hiking (a lot of which multi-day in steep terrain and adverse weather) with tripod and pano head for nearly 10 years, so it can be done. :)

Cheers,
Bernard


My usual landscape kit includes two bodies, TS-E 17 and 24, 35, 50, 70-200, 400, filters, heavy-duty tripod and C1 cube head, plus random brackets and other bits of metal to hold it all together. All up, it weighs close to 20kg already...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2015, 03:30:30 am »

My usual landscape kit includes two bodies, TS-E 17 and 24, 35, 50, 70-200, 400, filters, heavy-duty tripod and C1 cube head, plus random brackets and other bits of metal to hold it all together. All up, it weighs close to 20kg already...

Yep, I used to carry something similar. Now the Otus + pano head replace the 17, 24, 35 and 50 and the 180mm replaces the 70-200. Higher quality, less weight, less complexity fro me. I use a RRS 3 series tripod with a pano rotating device replacing the ball head. I rarely use my Cube in the field.

I keep the pano vertical head mounted to the tripod and the nodal node position clamp also. All it takes to start taking a pano is to attach both, no more time consuming that mounting the camera on a ball head.

I only carry 2 bodies on once in a life time trips abroad, I have never had a body failure preventing me from taking photographs over many hundreds of thousands of images.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 03:36:29 am by BernardLanguillier »
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shadowblade

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2015, 03:59:25 am »

Yep, I used to carry something similar. Now the Otus + pano head replace the 17, 24, 35 and 50 and the 180mm replaces the 70-200. Higher quality, less weight, less complexity fro me. I use a RRS 3 series tripod with a pano rotating device replacing the ball head. I rarely use my Cube in the field.

I keep the pano vertical head mounted to the tripod and the nodal node position clamp also. All it takes to start taking a pano is to attach both, no more time consuming that mounting the camera on a ball head.

I only carry 2 bodies on once in a life time trips abroad, I have never had a body failure preventing me from taking photographs over many hundreds of thousands of images.

Cheers,
Bernard


What do you do when movement or conditions require you to take a single UWA shot rather than a panorama? Or when you need to shoot at longer than 180mm? Or when you really need the tilt movement due to depth of field issues?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2015, 05:28:05 am »

What do you do when movement or conditions require you to take a single UWA shot rather than a panorama? Or when you need to shoot at longer than 180mm? Or when you really need the tilt movement due to depth of field issues?

I simply make do with what I have, use DoF stacking when the image requires lots of DoF, or do 2 rows pano at f16 with different focus points.

Cheers,
Bernard

kers

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2015, 06:02:34 am »

Once I acquired a D800e I decided the Nikon 24 shift L and 45 shfit L just, well, sucked. I had them both checked by Nikon. They were within spec. I couldn't use them - my focus is on landscape and the results off centre reminded me of going to the optometrist and having him dial in the wrong numbers. They were ok on my D700 years ago. Sold them. Really want a 17 and 24. I have to admit I've not tried alternate brands to date (budget is a factor currently). Have a D810 now but don't expect it to make any difference. I'm a bit in envy of the Canon 17 TS!

Edited: left the letter "l" out of "shift". Freudian typo.
I can imagine the 24mm PCE was not good enough for landscape ( as i pointed out), but with the 45mmPCE i have no problem at all.
Yes it is a complex wideangle design that has some strange sharpnesses/unsharpnesses. But at f8 the lens shines from close-up till infinity.
For the most remote edges you need f11 or even d16 but that only concerns the last 2mm max shift.
Mind you i sometimes have a problem with it but than it was me not having the focus spot on-that is a very delicate thing and can be a problem - the d810 is more helpful in that respect with its better liveview. Also you have to make shure at every shot all the knobs (tilt=0-shift) are secured. So a lot of thing can go wrong.

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kers

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2015, 06:14:30 am »

The Otus 55mm f1.4 is excellent on this KPI, with very limited focus breathing.
The Zeiss 100mm f2.0 is OK, the 135mm f2.0 is unfortunately poor, suffering from significant focus breathing.
Cheers,
Bernard
I am sure the Zeiss Otus is a wonderfull lens, but for stitching i would also suggest the Sigma 50 Art lens. It also has the benefit of being a fast and precise autofocus lens.
(You can make perfectly sharp candid camera portraits with it wide open)
I has only a few mm of breathing. I use it a lot with stitching and usually am within one pixel precise. The money you save you can put in some sturdy pano equipment+ some other fine lenses.
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2015, 08:41:01 pm »

Well, focus stacking for a single image works ok with these lenses also. What doesn't work well, or at least not without a significant amount of painful manual re-work with layers in PS, is the combination of focus stacking and stitching.

IMO, the most interesting combination of panorama stitching and focus stacking is the work of Alan Lesheim (AKA Fred Nirque) and his work in the Upper Florentine forests of Tasmania. Here is an example:

http://www.fotozones.com/live/index.php/page/articles/_/misc/to-megapixel-or-not-to-megapixel-that-is-the-q-r39
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 04:39:09 am by Michael Erlewine »
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Jack Hogan

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2015, 03:03:54 am »

Yep, I used to carry something similar. Now the Otus + pano head replace the ...

Bernard, may I ask what pano head you use or would recommend?

Jack
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2015, 04:26:50 am »

Bernard, may I ask what pano head you use or would recommend?

I have been using both the Really Right Stuff options with a strong liking for the PG-02 as well as a Clauss Rodeon wifi enabled Pixpert motorized head for some specific applications.

Cheers,
Bernard

BernardLanguillier

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2015, 04:34:48 am »

The most interesting combination of panorama stitching and focus stacking is the work of Alan Lesheim (AKA Fred Nirque) and his work in the Upper Florentine forests of Tasmania. Here is an example:

http://www.fotozones.com/live/index.php/page/articles/_/misc/to-megapixel-or-not-to-megapixel-that-is-the-q-r39

Good stuff, I love Tasmania, must visit again soon. Here are a few stitches+DoF stacking combos I took in the wild these past few months. Apologies for drifting away from architecture images.











More after the link.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 04:55:05 am by BernardLanguillier »
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JohnBrew

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2015, 07:31:30 am »

Bernard, I always follow your posts as I shoot the same combination as you. How many images are you taking for a DoF stitch? I'm finding three about the right number. An article in On Landscape, the British landscape web magazine (highly recommended, btw), by Hans Strand which convinced me of the efficacy in shooting f16. Now due to the bugaboo warnings of diffraction by various individuals on the net, it wasn't until I got the D810 that I started shooting f16 with the Otus. Oh, my. What a revelation.

As to the OP, I've shot with both the PC-E 24 & 45. The copy of the 24 I had, and there is apparently wild sample variation with this lens, was good for tilt but not shift - the corners were poor even stopped down. I tried several copies of the 45, the first was a rental and worked well, but when I purchased one the CA on the example I got was horrible and could not be fixed in post. I think if you read some of the tests of the Nikon's you will find that most users recommended that by not shifting to the limit the lenses were acceptable.

I saw an image, perhaps photo shopped, of a supposed Canon FF mirrorless with a TC lens. That got my attention.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2015, 07:44:00 am »

Bernard, I always follow your posts as I shoot the same combination as you. How many images are you taking for a DoF stitch? I'm finding three about the right number. An article in On Landscape, the British landscape web magazine (highly recommended, btw), by Hans Strand which convinced me of the efficacy in shooting f16. Now due to the bugaboo warnings of diffraction by various individuals on the net, it wasn't until I got the D810 that I started shooting f16 with the Otus. Oh, my. What a revelation.

Hi John,

It really varies depending on how close the foreground is, but 3 sounds about right at f16. I also tend to shoot more stopped down with the Otus.

As to the OP, I've shot with both the PC-E 24 & 45. The copy of the 24 I had, and there is apparently wild sample variation with this lens, was good for tilt but not shift - the corners were poor even stopped down.

same experience here.

Cheers,
Bernard

Quentin

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2015, 10:21:14 am »



...and a greater range of shit.


Truly an unexpected benefit.  A lens that can double as garden manure is surely to be welcomed...  ;D
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BenNorton

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2015, 08:26:46 am »

Truly an unexpected benefit.  A lens that can double as garden manure is surely to be welcomed...  ;D


Having had my original query go so far off topic it's nice to have it brought back in check with some classic toilet humour.  :)
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Quentin

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2015, 09:11:04 am »

Ben

Sorry couldn't resist  ;D

As to your question, it is a very valid one.  I own a D810 and the Nikkor PC-E 24mm Tilt shift lens.  As we all know, the camera is great, but the lens is frankly mediocre.

With no tilt or shift applied, its a pretty sharp 24mm lens.  Once one starts using movements, optical performance deteriorates to the point where it is marginal for serious work.  Where possible, one might be better off either focus stacking, or stitching, depending on what you are trying do.

Where possible, I avoid using it. At least its easier to use than the HTS 1.5 tilt / shift converter on my Hasselblad.

My tolerance reduces as I get older.  I tend to take better pictures when I have simpler kit to carry.  I therefore use a Sigma DP2 or DP3 Merrill for most stitching, with quite outstanding results  (used with a small lightweight tripod and very small pano head its a ridiculously compact, lightweight solution that delivers spot on results that are easy to stitch with no errors every time).  I also like the look of the H-Cam Master TS adapter on the Sony A7r.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 09:19:46 am by Quentin »
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2015, 09:21:03 am »

I have the three Nikon PC-Es (24mm, 45mm, 85mm). I have used them for panoramas and general tilt/shift operations. Of the three, I use the Nikon PC-E 45mm most. I no longer use them because, as mentioned in other posts, they are not well enough corrected for my taste and work. They are sharp enough and useful as tools, but the lack of correction counts against them for me, enough that they sit on the shelf.

I feel we have reached a fork in the road, particular with large sensors (which I love), like the D810 with 36MP. Companies like Zeiss (Otus) and Sigma (Art lenses) have the idea, just correct the lenses to a higher standard. This is the way it is trending. I am selling off many of my non-APO lenses.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 09:34:07 am by Michael Erlewine »
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BenNorton

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2015, 09:37:32 am »

So the long and short of it seems to be that as much as I've loved getting that ease of use back from the D810, it's as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike for TS wide angles.
So I guess it's either sell the nikons and get a sony or keep lugging the 810 plus a wds/leaf Aptus.
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alan_b

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2015, 04:28:45 pm »

So the long and short of it seems to be that as much as I've loved getting that ease of use back from the D810, it's as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike for TS wide angles.
So I guess it's either sell the nikons and get a sony or keep lugging the 810 plus a wds/leaf Aptus.

My experience is that when ink meets paper, the Nikon 24mm is not nearly as bad as some reports here suggest.  Itís not perfect on 36MP sensors, and neither is the Canon.  You'll have to test for yourself - these are relatively inexpensive lenses compared their MF counterparts.

Field curvature makes simple comparisons/characterizations difficult.  See the Alpa comparison Kers previously mentioned:
http://www.alpa.ch/en/news/2013/fps-lenses-free-choice.html?year=2013&num=3

For wide-angle tilt-shift photography (24mm on 135, 35mm on 645),
pick your poison - each has positives and negatives:
Nikon D810 + PCE 24
Canon 5DIII (soon 5DS) + TSE 24
Sony A7R + TSE 24
CCD DB + Schneider lens
CCD DB + Rodenstock lens
CMOS DB + RS Lens
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Michael Erlewine

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Re: TS / PC Lenses for Nikon D810
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2015, 05:26:12 pm »

I am hoping that the next Zeiss Otus lens will be a wide-angle APO lens, which is what I need for what we are discussing, to use with the D810 or perhaps a larger sensor that will come from Nikon. I can wish.
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