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Author Topic: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released  (Read 21919 times)

David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2015, 06:46:44 am »

You beat me to it Bart! 

Thanks for the positive comments Gazwas.
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David Grover
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2015, 06:48:06 am »

no, you imply that HR format is something so arcane that you can't properly support it... but it seems it is not based on what other available (by this moment) software does... now it is totally OK to say: dear users, we need more time to work it out...

it has - because you also reverse engineer there to build your camera profiles that I bet you call better (colorwise along with your code) than other products have, don't you ? and that includes I guess OEM software, is it not ? so where is the logic then

Building camera profiles is not reverse engineering.  Its profiling.

Decoding a RAW file format that is not a traditional Bayer mosaic is reverse engineering, if the manufacturer does not supply details about how the file is written.

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David Grover
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2015, 07:37:01 am »

Hi David, could you explain this in more detail?

The colour grading tool works great but lacks one important option..... a reset button. Currently resetting effects S, M and H but it would be good if you could reset each one individually.

Sorry, I missed your question about Dynamic Locations.

Currently a process recipe has a fixed output location.  But that's not always optimal.  So with Dynamic Locations you could add sub folders for automatic sorting.  As a very basic example, sort the four and five star images into separate folders.  Or sort color tagged images into separate folders.  Or variant position, capture name... and so on.

it also works in the import process as well.  So, for example, auto split the images into capture date folders.

There is a webinar on it on April 15th..

https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/rt/8666020062360313602

And a blog post week after next with explanations and examples.

blog.phaseone.com

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David Grover
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Paul Steunebrink

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2015, 10:35:43 am »

Of course David's blog and webinar will explain the Dynamic Locations (I will sure read it), but in case you can not wait, I presented some examples in a 8.2 review: http://imagealchemist.net/what-is-new-in-capture-one-pro-8-2/
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AlterEgo

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2015, 12:20:43 pm »

Building camera profiles is not reverse engineering.  Its profiling.

"profiling" starts with finding out CFA response, either with tools like monochromator or by shooting targets, David - that is reverse engineering (because you don't have that from a manufacturer)... then you can add a creative part to that by building a color transform that is a TM of C1  ;D
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BobShaw

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2015, 06:58:32 pm »

Does this assist in matching the colour from a ColorCheckr image so that you can get correct colour for fashion, product etc.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2015, 09:12:35 pm »

Does this assist in matching the colour from a ColorCheckr image so that you can get correct colour for fashion, product etc.
P1 has $6K (yes, thousands $.. no, not camera - just "software") version of C1 where they put profiles (and tone curve) designed for a reproduction work (means w/o touted C1 color rendering which makes pictures look nice - but instead just as it actually should be) ... called "Cultural Heritage edition" = http://www.phaseone.com/~/media/Phase%20One/8-Other-pages/Press-releases/press-release-COCH8.ashx
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2015, 11:25:05 pm »

P1 has $6K (yes, thousands $.. no, not camera - just "software") version of C1 where they put profiles (and tone curve) designed for a reproduction work (means w/o touted C1 color rendering which makes pictures look nice - but instead just as it actually should be) ... called "Cultural Heritage edition" = http://www.phaseone.com/~/media/Phase%20One/8-Other-pages/Press-releases/press-release-COCH8.ashx

Indeed.

Trust me when I say that for the target audience (libraries, museums, archives, service bureaus, high-end art repro shops and similar) 6k is a very good value. The AutoCrop tool alone will save many of our clients several times that cost in labor savings.

If you're interested you can watch a fairly in depth webinar here: Capture One Cultural Heritage Webinar

BobShaw

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2015, 12:55:06 am »

P1 has $6K (yes, thousands $.. no, not camera - just "software") version of C1 where they put profiles (and tone curve) designed for a reproduction work (means w/o touted C1 color rendering which makes pictures look nice - but instead just as it actually should be) ... called "Cultural Heritage edition" = http://www.phaseone.com/~/media/Phase%20One/8-Other-pages/Press-releases/press-release-COCH8.ashx
Sorry, I have no idea what you said.
I am looking for a solution to shoot standard a ColorCheckr chart and adjust colour.
Basically profile the camera like Lightroom does, but without using Lightroom.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2015, 05:01:55 am »

Sorry, I have no idea what you said.
I am looking for a solution to shoot standard a ColorCheckr chart and adjust colour.
Basically profile the camera like Lightroom does, but without using Lightroom.

Hi Bob,

I think basically Phase One doesn't believe that a 24 patch color checker is enough to build a good profile, and I somewhat agree (also depends on what one calls 'good'). That's why those involved in creating good camera profiles often use a better target, a 140 color patch Digital ColorChecker SG, that covers a larger gamut and many more intermediate colors (an "Array of 140 colors: 24 patches from original ColorChecker, 17 step gray scale and 14 unique skin tone colors"). Some use even more elaborate equipment and procedures. Even shooting the target is not as simple as people tend to think, and the results are therefore often disappointing, from a viewpoint of striving for perfection.

What you can do, is take an existing CaptureOne profile for your (or another) camera and tweak the color response with Capture One's  color editor tool if you think it is not correct or to your liking, and save that adjusted response as a new profile.That approach actually makes a lot of sense, and is very flexible. Warning, if you base those corrections on a simple 24 patch ColorChecker, you will get strange colors elsewhere, also depending on the variations in illumination. Camera profiling is not easy.

What you can alternatively try is to create your own profile e.g. with the tools in the Agyll CMS, but you need a spectrometer to do it, or use a GUI front end which also has some averages to support 24 patch Color Checkers that have not been accurately calibrated/measured.

RawDigger also has functionality to save CGATS data for profiling software.

Cheers,
Bart
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2015, 06:28:28 am »

Hey Bob,

What Bart said! (Thanks Bart!) Especially with regards to the limited patches on the Color Checker and also what you can do with our Color Editor.

I would also ask - do you have a problem with the colour you are currently getting from Capture One?  If so, we would like to know about it via support.

David



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David Grover
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2015, 06:30:32 am »

P1 has $6K (yes, thousands $.. no, not camera - just "software") version of C1 where they put profiles (and tone curve) designed for a reproduction work (means w/o touted C1 color rendering which makes pictures look nice - but instead just as it actually should be) ... called "Cultural Heritage edition" = http://www.phaseone.com/~/media/Phase%20One/8-Other-pages/Press-releases/press-release-COCH8.ashx

I am mystified with this venomous attitude.  Just because software isn't nuts and bolts, does not mean it cost money to research and develop.

Anyway, the CH edition of Capture One is a niche product which is reflected in the price.  The additional profiles provided are based on specialist lighting for reproduction (for example LED) which would be of no interest to our normal customers.

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David Grover
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2015, 06:32:09 am »

"profiling" starts with finding out CFA response, either with tools like monochromator or by shooting targets, David - that is reverse engineering (because you don't have that from a manufacturer)... then you can add a creative part to that by building a color transform that is a TM of C1  ;D

Having in-depth knowledge of CFA's would not negate the need to create a colour profile through our normal process.

Having in-depth knowledge of an undocumented file format (i.e Olympus HR) would significantly reduce the number of R&D hours required to decode it.

I assume you have an OM-D and would like to process HR files through Capture One?
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David Grover
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AlterEgo

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2015, 09:10:39 am »

Having in-depth knowledge of CFA's would not negate the need to create a colour profile through our normal process.

no, but in your case you start with reverse engineering

Having in-depth knowledge of an undocumented file format (i.e Olympus HR) would significantly reduce the number of R&D hours required to decode it.

and having knowledge of CFA transmission curves 'd save the number of hours to find them out through other ways....

I assume you have an OM-D and would like to process HR files through Capture One?

no, but I see that some other "vendors" did not have such problems - more so they, being in many cases a literally single man operation (vs a big company), "decoded" that in a matter of days... again there is nothing wrong with saying that you need more time, but to come up with tales about "reverse engineered so sub optimal" is simply lame !
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AlterEgo

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2015, 09:13:52 am »

I am mystified with this venomous attitude.

I want LAB (or better LAB and something like HSV /or HSL or HSB/ together) readouts !!! so yes, I am very venomous when I see that it requires $6K to get that

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AlterEgo

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2015, 09:22:27 am »

That approach actually makes a lot of sense
not for the kind of almost reproduction work ("get correct colour for fashion, product etc") that the author of the question is apparently trying to do
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2015, 09:54:20 am »

not for the kind of almost reproduction work ("get correct colour for fashion, product etc") that the author of the question is apparently trying to do

Hi,

Without knowing more about the shooting conditions, it does make a lot of sense. The stock profile isn't totally off, so one can adjust it for the colors that are off, even in postproduction, even for repurposed use later, and tuned for the viewing conditions that are requested. It can be done based on the actual colors, and not a set of interesting but maybe not so relevant colors.

And if the shooting conditions do not allow a perfect setup for the reproduction of a color reference like the ColorChecker SG, not the 24 patch version, then shooting a target for profile creation is of somewhat limited use anyway.

Given the fact that profiles will never give exact results under all viewing conditions, because the tri-chromatic camera samples different spectral ranges than our eyes do, we will have to tweak the final colors anyway ...

Cheers,
Bart
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AlterEgo

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2015, 01:08:11 pm »

The stock profile isn't totally off

I am sorry - which __specific__ stock profile ?

, so one can adjust it for the colors that are off, even in postproduction, even for repurposed use later, and tuned for the viewing conditions that are requested.

and what delta you expect to achieve for example trying to adjust colors in SG target (just as an example - your real object is not that target of course, it is just we can use that as a test because raws are available) starting from a stock profile ?

It can be done based on the actual colors, and not a set of interesting but maybe not so relevant colors.

so you suggest him to get spectrophotometer and measure the colors of his objects - say he has 20-30-40 colors there - you believe that he can manually tune with color editor in C1 all of them w/o changing one to screw the next one...

And if the shooting conditions do not allow a perfect setup for the reproduction of a color reference like the ColorChecker SG, not the 24 patch version, then shooting a target for profile creation is of somewhat limited use anyway.

did I suggest shooting a target ?

Given the fact that profiles will never give exact results under all viewing conditions, because the tri-chromatic camera samples different spectral ranges than our eyes do, we will have to tweak the final colors anyway ...

I 'd assume he has a controlled light if he does something close to reproduction work, no ?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2015, 01:30:56 pm »

I am sorry - which __specific__ stock profile ?

Capture One comes with a 'stock' profile, sometimes several, for each camera that it supports and which isn't all that bad as a basis.

Quote
and what delta you expect to achieve for example trying to adjust colors in SG target (just as an example - your real object is not that target of course, it is just we can use that as a test because raws are available) starting from a stock profile ?

so you suggest him to get spectrophotometer and measure the colors of his objects - say he has 20-30-40 colors there - you believe that he can manually tune with color editor in C1 all of them w/o changing one to screw the next one...

I get the impression that you think that spectrally accurate profiling is the only possibility to get 'good' color. Sure it helps to start from a good starting point, but the whole process is too different from how human color perception works to be the end of the work we have to do. Need I mention metamerism and color constancy, not even to mention simultaneous colors and contrast, and illumination levels and spectra?

Quote
I 'd assume he has a controlled light if he does something close to reproduction work, no ?

One can assume that, and maybe it's true.

Cheers,
Bart
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David Grover / Capture One

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Re: Capture One Pro 8.2 Released
« Reply #39 on: March 27, 2015, 03:36:12 pm »


I assume you have an OM-D and would like to process HR files through Capture One?


no...


Understood.
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David Grover
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