HP Viviera Matte Black in Canon iPF

[Czornyj]

Gentlemen, did anyone of you try to use HP Viviera MBK instead of Canon LUCIA EX MBK ink?

I'm tempted by the Dmax 1,8 instead of 1,65 but don't fancy the idea of using 2x separate 44" LFPs for matte and glossy media, like in the bad old Epson days.

[aaronchan]

No, you cannot.
Because you have no way to clear the sub-tank.
Been there tried that

aaron

[Czornyj]

Actually there's a way to clear the subtank:


I'm more worried about the print head...

[aaronchan]

thermal head is very sensetive,
unlike piezo, which basically you can just print with any kinds of ink type.
even canon and hp are both thermal head, but i still wouldn't try
because their heating point and formula might be different

aaron

[Czornyj]

Aaron, I'm well aware of that fact - which is why I'm asking if someone took the risk

iPF8300+TBW does wonders on glossy/satin/pearl media, so I wouldn't mind having best of both worlds in one (excellent) printer. Plus maybe add a diluted PGY channel or two...

[Ernst Dinkla]

Marcin,

You could try it first on a cheaper Canon model. As written before I use the HP Vivera MK pigment ink in the black channel of an HP Officejet Pro K5400 and PK + dilutions of PK on respectively the Cyan, Magenta, Yellow channel of that printer. The last three were dye channels and all three functioned well for more than two years but the Yellow channel is now blocked. This printer squirts larger droplets than the Z's, do so not a real challenge. I was more interested in issues like pigment settling in the diluted inks and whether the dye heads could cope with pigment inks. Water boils at 100 C so basically there should not be that much difference between the two printers and I guess it will not be different on the Canons.

The density difference you see between the HP and the Canon could also be caused by the MK 6 picoliter droplet of the Z versus the 4 picoliter droplet of the iPF models. With the same dpi the overlap should increase with 6 picoliter. It could be that the HP MK pigment particles have a bigger size than the HP PK pigment particles (channel 4 picoliter) but that is pure speculation. The Z's use 4 and 6 picoliter droplets depending on the channel. I still have two secondhand Epson desktop 6 channel models with refillable carts ready to test Dmax of three MK or PK inks in identical channel conditions (actual print resolution and droplet size). Epson and HP inks are here but still no Canon inks. The MIS Eboni MK  is changed last year so I will skip the old Eboni I still have.

I think there is more to gain in Dmax with proper media presets and profiling. I see that in even the HP Z's.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Czornyj]

Ernst,

I can send you Canon LUCIA EX ink samples if you wish.

I'm afraid you can't achieve better dMax from LUCIA EX MBK ink - no matter how hard I tried I could't squeeze even 0,1D more. I was experimenting with all print settings, different MBK amounts, adding additional colours, double printing in various orders and combinations, but it all only made dMax worse.

I'm not sure if larger pigment particles give better dMax - Canon uses variable pigment particles in LUCIA EX PBK, and achieves better dMax than in former LUCIA II ink formulation.

I like my iPF8300 a lot - it's a printers printer, very fast and convenient in use, TBW has quite reasonable price, and pigment settling in diluted inks shouldn't be an issue in its case, as it agitates inks in tanks/subtanks:


Problem is that LUCIA EX is optimised for PF-05 nozzle coatings, so using a different ink can potentially shorten the print head life (at best).

[Ernst Dinkla]

Ernst,

I can send you Canon LUCIA EX ink samples if you wish.

Marcin, thank you. I will ask you when I get time for that work.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[samueljohnchia]

Strangely I was able to achieve a Dmax of 1.79 on Epson Hot Press Bright and Natural with Lucia EX MBK when printing the calibration target charts for the spectro for iPF6450. The standard calibration targets for the onboard spectro were a bit worse at 1.72. But when printing in all other print modes, including maxing out the ink load using the MCT to adjust, I could not hit more than about 1.7 at best. I have found no explanation for this   All the most saturated blocks for the color inks were also far more dense and chromatic than the final printer color targets printed.

How are you able to add additional colors to the mix? Are you using a RIP to control this?