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Author Topic: Peter Lik Declares Himself God  (Read 91151 times)

Alan Klein

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2015, 10:22:36 pm »

Kincade made a lot of money while he was alive, as does Lik.  That's more than van Gogh and a lot of other artists did and do.  And although Kincade died of alcoholism and drug addiction, which negatively effected his business, he never cut off his ear.  Of course none of that has anything to do with his work or Van Gogh's or Lik's for that matter.  My point is, judge his or anyone's work on its artistic value.    You obviously don't like it, which is fine.  But many people did and still do.  Knocking someone's work that is enjoyed by millions by declaring him mediocre and the people who admire his work as middlebrow is narrow-minded and insulting. 

Osprey

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2015, 01:44:18 am »

"Knocking someone's work that is enjoyed by millions by declaring him mediocre and the people who admire his work as middlebrow is narrow-minded and insulting."

Interesting notion you've got there.

Whoever's on the New York Times bestselling author's list is off limits as far as artistic criticism for you?  If people like to buy Beats headphones, does that mean their sound quality is by definition beyond reproach?  Billions can't be wrong, McDonald's must be amazing?

Strange appeal to populism you've got there. 
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Alan Klein

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2015, 10:23:06 am »

Quote
Whoever's on the New York Times bestselling author's list is off limits as far as artistic criticism for you?

I think you are misinformed about the Times list.  It is based on quantity of books sold not people's opinions of what's "good".  Quantity bought is how the book gets to the top of the list.   By the Times standard, Kinkade's millions of admirers would put him near the top of the list for artists. 

But  my main point is why don't you like Kinkade or any other artist?  Rather than knocking the people who admire him as if they are cretins, provide your analysis of why his work is no good in your mind.  Art should stand on it's own.  Making ad hominem attacks against the artist, his business practices or people who like the artist's work should not be used as a basis of a critique of the art.  That's just a cheap shot. 

NancyP

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2015, 12:39:08 pm »

Kinkade's work is sickly-sweet sentimental, to my taste.

One should be able to see new things in a piece of "art" on repeated viewing.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #84 on: May 26, 2015, 01:39:31 pm »

Nancy:  Doesn't that apply to most photos as well?  As a landscape photographer, I often look at other people's work.  I'm very impressed by some of it.  But it takes on a look that is copied by the same photographer and so many others.  Lik as well as skilled and creative amateurs are included in that group.  So that raises interesting questions.  How does one do something different?  What does it look like? 

NancyP

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #85 on: May 26, 2015, 07:19:44 pm »

Yes, it most certainly does apply to photography.
I think that it is really hard to come up with truly "new" ideas and looks.
I use photos as a learning tool (eg, to learn about plants, insects, birds, etc) and as an expression of enjoyment of the plant, insect, etc. When I take a photo I try to see something that I haven't noticed previously - if I can do this, I feel as if I have had some success.
As for finding photos that yield different experiences on multiple views, I think that some formal compositional properties may be important, but I have a hard time defining exactly what those are.
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Geoff Wittig

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #86 on: May 27, 2015, 03:15:32 pm »

I'm an amateur painter among other things, and I do know more than a little about the subject. Kinkade's work was almost universally regarded as kitchy and formulaic by art critics and skilled painters. People are absolutely free to like what they like and to decorate their walls as they see fit, no argument from me. I'm not criticizing anyone's preference in decoration. But I think it's entirely fair to discuss how Kinkade's work was regarded by knowledgeable critics in terms of artistic merit.

There is no doubt that Kinkade had some genuine painting skills; he roomed with James Gurney (the Dinotopia guy, and a very skilled painter himself) at art school. However, once he hit on a formula that resonated with a mass market, he proceeded to repetitively crank out vast quantities of very similar paintings that advanced his art (or anyone else's) not a bit. No doubt he made a lot of money, and folks certainly are free to like his work. There's no accounting for taste. But neither will anyone ever mistake a Kinkade painting for something by (say) Richard Schmid or Clyde Aspevig.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #87 on: May 27, 2015, 04:50:42 pm »

You know, all those heavy, oil-laden thick strokes are so formulaic.  Repetitive.  No wonder no one bought his paintings.

Oh wait.  I'm talking about Van Gogh.  Shame on me.

ericbowles

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #88 on: May 31, 2015, 12:31:01 pm »

You have to keep in mind that Lik's work does well even in top blind competitions like Nature's Best and the NANPA Showcase.  Even if the images don't win, they score well when judged by professionals, and the consistency of top images is impressive - he's got one or two top images every year.

Perhaps more impressive is the marketing strategy behind the images.  For Lik's team, submitting images in major competitions is a marketing strategy.  It helps produce an impressive list of marketing materials promoting his top images.  Going into his gallery and being told - this one was exhibited in the Smithsonian - adds credibility and it also sells prints.  There is nothing left to chance here - you enter good images in a dozen top contests and you'll end up with some winners - that easily justify the cost and effort.

His galleries are a similarly impressive strategy.  I was recently in his newest gallery - in San Diego.  It's his 18th gallery and they all follow a similar approach.  There was little sales pressure, but a lot of things to help make a sale.  Images were very large prints under acrylic - very impressive and striking from a distance and up close.  The lighting was perfect and focused on the prints.  And the quality of the prints was very good.  I found the brightness of color and light was striking - not oversaturated but striking in terms of tonal value.  I have no doubt that he has a professional team optimizing his images for a large print.

I'd have to assume 18 galleries are producing $40-50 million a year in revenue or more.  He's probably paying $20 million or more a year in salaries for a team of people to sell, edit, market, promote, etc.  That's probably 200-300 people being employed. 

You have to take the comments from gallery owners with a grain of salt.  Lik has cut out the galleries and deploys their 30-40% cut on his own group of galleries.  This strategy has allowed him to promote and sell his work more aggressively and with some interesting strategies that could not be used with traditional galleries.

The model Lik uses for developing and selling a limited edition of 500 prints makes sense.  It sets some boundaries and established a value for the entire edition.  I can back into a $6 million price as the present value of the entire edition.  I'm not sure I can justify the price for the print, but it does provide an approach for the price.  We don't have all the details as to exactly what was sold and how it was priced or structured.

The lack of resale is a concern, but I don't think most owners really care.  The Lik owner who posted here is a good example - he likes the work, it's reasonably priced, and it's not going to be sold any time soon.  If a large print from a well known artist was sold in a traditional gallery, a $4,000 price tag is not unreasonable. 

I respect the business model of Lik.  I think he has shown that there is money in nature photography and developed an innovative business model.  More power to him.
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dgberg

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #89 on: June 24, 2015, 03:19:48 pm »

The one and only resale of a Peter Lik that I have seen was on Pawn Stars.
The art owner wanted $24,000 but settled for $6,000 cash.

Alan Klein

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2015, 03:56:19 pm »

What did he originally pay for it?

TwistedShadow

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #91 on: September 07, 2015, 09:32:39 pm »

The article I read stated Peter Lik limits his prints to 950. That article also stated his company is worth roughly $400 Million.

I think the guy is a very talented photographer but an ever better marketer. He opens his galleries in high travel tourist locations. However, a lot of his customers are probably people with disposable income with little art sense. I mean it just seems like he's flooding the market and possibly ruining the secondary market. His work is touted as being able to hold a value but only time will tell.

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earlybird

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #92 on: October 19, 2015, 08:18:51 am »



I had never heard of Peter Lik. I had heard of "phantom" so I guess the PR company he hired was good at its job. I went to his gallery to see the works.

I like this photo which I saw on his site. I've named it: "43 minutes too late with slipping ball head".

I thought the NYT article was an interesting read.
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Josh-H

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #93 on: October 19, 2015, 05:28:38 pm »

Quote
I've named it: "43 minutes too late with slipping ball head".

That is the funniest thing I have read in ages! Made my spit my morning coffee over the keyboard. ;D ;D ;D
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MichaelEzra

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #94 on: February 07, 2016, 04:50:54 pm »

I stumbled upon info on Peter Lik a few days ago. Artwork looked interesting, so I paid a visit to local gallery in NYC. Excellent presentation, nicely done.
Had a quick chat with sales. Apparently prints are on Fuji metallic paper. In combo with Acrylic it looks great.
I noticed that the photo paper is sandwiched between two 1/8" acrylic, a usual way would have been dibond or some other substrate in the back.
There was however, what appears a quite heavy duty black finished aluminum frame on the back of that sandwich. Nice solution.

When I asked the sales person whether acrylic and print are mounted on metal, she said that the paper is already metallic, hence no other metal is necessary:)
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 07:47:52 am by MichaelEzra »
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BobShaw

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #95 on: February 07, 2016, 11:17:46 pm »

Kincade made a lot of money while he was alive, as does Lik.  That's more than van Gogh and a lot of other artists did and do.  And although Kincade died of alcoholism and drug addiction, which negatively effected his business, he never cut off his ear.  Of course none of that has anything to do with his work or Van Gogh's or Lik's for that matter.  My point is, judge his or anyone's work on its artistic value.    You obviously don't like it, which is fine.  But many people did and still do.  Knocking someone's work that is enjoyed by millions by declaring him mediocre and the people who admire his work as middlebrow is narrow-minded and insulting.
+ everyone who is not just jealous. 5 pages? Seriously. I admire successful people.
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2016, 11:45:24 am »

I stumbled upon info on Peter Lik a few days ago. Artwork looked interesting, so I paid a visit to local gallery in NYC. Excellent presentation, nicely done.
Had a quick chat with sales. Apparently prints are on Fuji metallic paper. In combo with Acrylic it looks great.
I noticed that the photo paper is sandwiched between two 1/8" acrylic, a usual way would have been dibond or some other substrate in the back.
There was however, what appears a quite heavy duty black finished aluminum frame on the back of that sandwich. Nice solution.

When I asked the sales person whether acrylic and print are mounted on metal, she said that the paper is already metallic, hence no other metal is necessary:)
fuji doesnít make a ďmetallicĒ paper.  Lik prints on FujiFlex, basically a Fuji Crystal Archive emulsion on a white super high gloss PET base.  Kodak makes a metallic paper which does look nice face mounted with certain subjects, but Iíve never seen a Lik print on Kodak metallic in the several galleries Iíve visited.

Iíve been in several Lik galleries, and the sales staff act very informed and yet often spew out information that is totally false.  I heard one claim the paper was a special resin full of little crystals like pearls that is hardened while being printed .... obviously their interpretation of Fuji Pearl.
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Christoph B.

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #97 on: February 14, 2016, 08:34:42 am »

I guess this whole Lik-phenomenon must be an american thing, never heard of the guy in Europe, has no galleries overseas and I've never seen any of his stuff in exhibitions...

That could also explain the low resale value; there just isn't that much demand worldwide.

But who knows, maybe he'll be a famous artist someday, right now he's a successful businessman and photographer.
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Justinr

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #98 on: February 26, 2016, 07:26:29 am »

+ everyone who is not just jealous. 5 pages? Seriously. I admire successful people.

Aye, there maybe some truth in that but let's not all succumb to hype.
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Otto Phocus

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Re: Peter Lik Declares Himself God
« Reply #99 on: February 26, 2016, 07:43:09 am »

It would be very difficult to estimate how much Mr Lik's work  influences my photography.

 ;)
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