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Author Topic: What defines a Fine Art printer?  (Read 20236 times)

BobShaw

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2015, 08:18:28 pm »

If you are a client of a "fine art printer" and you exude smugness and pretension then it could be off putting to potential clients. I have seen adverts from photographers who state they can undertake any kind of work including weddings. Another type to be wary of. Why not just declare ...photographer for hire? :-\
Being rude to a customer is never the way to sell anything. However a salesman may be wonderfully polite and know nothing. Knowledge and politeness are not necessarily linked. Personally I would much rather give my work to someone who was obviously talented and not great socially than someone who was charismatic and knew nothing.

As for photographers who can do anything, well some can. I know of a recent Landscape Professional Photographer of the Year who has also done about a thousand weddings. He now chooses not to do weddings, but would do one if requested. That does make them churn and burn.

How you advertise and market yourself is really not up to others in the same profession to question. Watch and learn.
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stamper

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #81 on: March 15, 2015, 04:54:08 am »

I said nothing about rudeness so why quote my post? ::)

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2015, 04:27:12 pm »

I decided to revive a two-month old post of mine in this forum, given that here we have a bunch of fine-arat printers to ask for advice. The post (end the ensuing discussion) is here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=97161.msg794517#msg794517

But I will repeat the scenario for those who do not want to read old threads:

I was particularly interested in the color distribution of one particular image of mine that I expected to be difficult to print, as it has a lot of subtle blue variations, typically outside sRGB gamut that I am requested to send to a lab.

Here is the image:


Aqua Blue II
by Slobodan Blagojevic, on Flickr

And here are the plots comparing sRGB and AdobeRGB agains the color distribution of the image. Adobe can hold just a smidgen more colors than sRGB (for this particular image), so the question is:

Which paper profile/printer/process combination would result in a max coverage (apart from ProPhotoRGB, the image's embedded profile, of course)?

The best comment I got was from bill t. who said:

Quote
The question is not which media is least out of gamut in the blues, but rather which one has the most attractive palette of Gamut-Failure-Blues. 

So, fine-art printers, what would you use/advise to print an image like this?

Mark Lindquist

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2015, 05:10:12 pm »

I have printed for "artists" since approx 1975. Silkscreen printing in my own shop, some other techniques when I founded, with some other guys, a collective artist's printing facility in 1981 (Daglicht, Eindhoven) and inkjet printing since 1999 in my shop again. "Artists" as I do not believe you would expect them to be alike in all qualities, so you may not expect that Fine Art printers are all made from the same mold. My view on it my differ from the next guy. I have no disdain for the local T-shirt printer, what comes from his shop has a market too and when his customers are happy with the product he must have some skills. Fine Art is already a superlative I would not use and is less used over here as we say Art which covers a wider field with less pretentions.

What I find important in my work is to be able to understand the artist's goals or if I do not understand them, create a situation where it works for the artist, as long as my shop is not destroyed one way or another. Sometimes I have to warn them about possible problems but there has to be some flexibility like one adapts to the data and pieces they bring in. Wallet sizes differ too. I think my broad interests in technology helps but I know other art printers that are more practical in their approach and they have good solutions too.  The other important thing is integrity in what you supply; in what the artists, galleries, musea, art buyers expect in print runs, media use, claims made. Yes, I have seen some cheating as well in that environment but I try to keep my end of the process clean as that lasts in time.

If you check the knowledge of people here that write in some forums like the color management forum then I see that printing knowledge can be found in both art printers and the broader range of the printing facilities. It is is a good thing if it is available in an art print shop but does not work well if the other criteria summed up are not met.

Some knowledge of art history, trends in art is convenient. An art printer will not appreciate all the art made in his shop but he should assist on all kinds of projects. In that sense his place is not different from a shoemaker repairing the customer's shoes of whatever fashion. If you want to be creative in art then do that in your own work and not by steering other artist's work in a direction you like. That said when asked by the artist which solution could be found for this or that expression of the work at hand you might suggest some ways with empathy, intelligence for the artist and the work. You should have experience in this technology that goes beyond that of the artist so there is a source. Suggest, not dictate. Give more than one solution.

YMMV

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

This is a mature, informed statement that echoes some of what Geraldo has been saying.  The pros know who they are and what they are doing.  Beyond that it is all about ethics and integrity.
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Mark Lindquist
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Mark Lindquist

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2015, 05:37:50 pm »


I was particularly interested in the color distribution of one particular image of mine that I expected to be difficult to print, as it has a lot of subtle blue variations, typically outside sRGB gamut that I am requested to send to a lab.
Adobe can hold just a smidgen more colors than sRGB (for this particular image), so the question is:

So, fine-art printers, what would you use/advise to print an image like this?

THE INTERACTION OF COLOR
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Plateau Light

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2015, 05:58:53 pm »

I decided to revive a two-month old post of mine in this forum, given that here we have a bunch of fine-arat printers to ask for advice. The post (end the ensuing discussion) is here: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=97161.msg794517#msg794517

But I will repeat the scenario for those who do not want to read old threads:

I was particularly interested in the color distribution of one particular image of mine that I expected to be difficult to print, as it has a lot of subtle blue variations, typically outside sRGB gamut that I am requested to send to a lab.

Here is the image:


Aqua Blue II
by Slobodan Blagojevic, on Flickr

And here are the plots comparing sRGB and AdobeRGB agains the color distribution of the image. Adobe can hold just a smidgen more colors than sRGB (for this particular image), so the question is:

Which paper profile/printer/process combination would result in a max coverage (apart from ProPhotoRGB, the image's embedded profile, of course)?

The best comment I got was from bill t. who said:

So, fine-art printers, what would you use/advise to print an image like this?
It is much more than simply selecting a paper. There are edits that one needs to consider to get the output to look like the master file.
We usually start with selective color and move from there.
Here is a selective color edit that brings the color into the tonal range for one of our profiles. It is a starting point toward getting the output to render like the original. Remember that ICC profiles are not intelligent, they use fixed formulas to remap color and do not always hit the perceptual impression of the original so the fine print maker must understand that and act accordingly.
Install the ICC profile, open the PSD and soft proof it with the new profile under relative intent comparing it to the posted file from Slobodan.
I look forward to everyone's dialogue and techniques

the PSD with a base edit layer and ICC profile are here:

http://www.robert-park.com/uploads/Color_test.psd
http://www.robert-park.com/uploads/84KFlexLegacy.icm


Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #86 on: March 23, 2015, 06:06:26 pm »

Just to clarify, the embedded image in my post is already in sRGB mode (for posting on Flickr).

Robert, are you suggesting I should upload a 16-bit TIFF file with a ProPhoto working profile for selective color edits?

Plateau Light

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Re: What defines a Fine Art printer?
« Reply #87 on: March 23, 2015, 06:27:42 pm »

Just to clarify, the embedded image in my post is already in sRGB mode (for posting on Flickr).

Robert, are you suggesting I should upload a 16-bit TIFF file with a ProPhoto working profile for selective color edits?
You could as it would be more instructive however I detest printing from ProPhoto as it frequently is numerically representing colors that are far outside of any printable gamut or gamut that is viewable on any monitor.
You will encounter issues more often when colors are pushed in ProPhoto. I prefer Beta RGB but am probably firmly in the minority.
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