Dust spot removal tool?

[rsamco]

Michael didn't mention the existence of a dust removal tool (e.g., clone stamp, spot healing brush, etc.) in Lightroom.  Is this true?  If so, that would be another reason for me to have to further edit a pic in Photoshop before printing.

- Rick

PS I don't have a Mac so can't inspect the Beta release myself.

[61Dynamic]

No spotting tool. Just global adjustments.

[Tim Gray]

An interesting article by J.S. on Photoshop News... http://photoshopnews.com/2006/01/09/the-sh...elopment-story/

I suspect that there's a certain amount of difficulty within Adobe in positioning Lightroom in the context of their overall portfolio.  I don't think it will ever be a 100% replacement for PS, but will (eventually) seamlessly integrate.   It will be tough for the development team to decide what functionality resides where.

[Bobtrips]

Michael didn't mention the existence of a dust removal tool (e.g., clone stamp, spot healing brush, etc.) in Lightroom.  Is this true?  If so, that would be another reason for me to have to further edit a pic in Photoshop before printing.

- Rick

PS I don't have a Mac so can't inspect the Beta release myself.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55574\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I would suspect that Adobe left out some well established features so that they could allow people to download and play with the new features.

Including everything (clone stamp, rotate, crop, etc.) would have meant that they were giving away their product for free.

[giles]

I would suspect that Adobe left out some well established features so that they could allow people to download and play with the new features.

Including everything (clone stamp, rotate, crop, etc.) would have meant that they were giving away their product for free.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55580\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

To be useful standalone though, some of that functionality has to be offered.  I've been thinking about this; I need to update my Mac's OS before I can run Lightroom, but IMHO to be able to print from it without an excursion through Photoshop, I will need:

1. to be able to rotate and crop
2. to be able to retouch at least minimally
    (My point&shoot has a hot green pixel, my DSLR gets dust, ...)
3. [ strongly preferred ] be able to dodge & burn

I'd currently draw the line at layers: once layers are needed or wanted, then it seems to me (until I change my mind!) to be Photoshop territory.

I agree that the wishlist will be as long as a piece of string.  One way to minimise the pain for all concerned would be to offer very keen discounts for buying Lightbox and Photoshop: that way people who only need one or the other can buy them, but people who want both don't get perturbed about paying for functionality twice over.

I don't know that functionality will have been deliberately left out of the beta to protect Photoshp revenue in the short term: I can see the attraction of protecting Photoshop sales, but that would limit the usefulness of user feedback and I'd expect very price sensitive users to prefer a bundled copy of Photoshop Elements to buying the full version of Photoshop anyway.

Cheers,

Giles

[ Edited to correct product name. ]

[Bobtrips]

To be useful standalone though, some of that functionality has to be offered.  I've been thinking about this; I need to update my Mac's OS before I can run Lightbox, but IMHO to be able to print from it without an excursion through Photoshop, I will need:

1. to be able to rotate and crop
2. to be able to retouch at least minimally
    (My point&shoot has a hot green pixel, my DSLR gets dust, ...)
3. [ strongly preferred ] be able to dodge & burn

I'd currently draw the line at layers: once layers are needed or wanted, then it seems to me (until I change my mind!) to be Photoshop territory.

I agree that the wishlist will be as long as a piece of string.  One way to minimise the pain for all concerned would be to offer very keen discounts for buying Lightbox and Photoshop: that way people who only need one or the other can buy them, but people who want both don't get perturbed about paying for functionality twice over.

I don't know that functionality will have been deliberately left out of the beta to protect Photoshp revenue in the short term: I can see the attraction of protecting Photoshop sales, but that would limit the usefulness of user feedback and I'd expect very price sensitive users to prefer a bundled copy of Photoshop Elements to buying the full version of Photoshop anyway.

Cheers,

Giles
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55586\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'm suggesting that the Beta version of Lightroom that you can download for free is a 'crippled' version.  It lets you try out some new features.

Buy the "1.0" version when it's released and you'll get all that other stuff.

[David Mantripp]

I'd currently draw the line at layers: once layers are needed or wanted, then it seems to me (until I change my mind!) to be Photoshop territory.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55586\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Then tools such as the PixelGenius stuff will require a visit to Photoshop.  And if Lightroom incorporates non destructive editing through some other method than layers, it is going to get pretty confusing if you end up using a combination of both. I'd be surprised if the PixelGenius people would be happy to see Lightroom replace Photoshop for many photographers, hence cut out their market. But, since they have clearly got an inside track on this, I suppose they're already hard at work at working out how to exploit the Lightroom API.  

I've had a very quick play with Lightroom - I'm very impressed that it reads my CaptureOne settings, but apart from that, it _seems_ to be a bit superficial. It is also very slow at rendering full screen previews, on a Dual 2.5Ghz G5. Very pretty, perhaps more so than Aperture (since the prettiness in Lightroom seems to enhance rather than than detract from usability), but I'm afraid it also misses the point.

We (I?) do not need a Photoshop replacement. We do need better, imaginative organisation and versioning tools.  Aperture, which I have not tried (at least Lightroom's beta program is free...), seems to have a firmer grasp on this.

IMHO, a killer combination would be a better integrated, or fully integrated, iView MediaPro & CaptureOne.  They've sort of tested the waters through combined marketing and joint tutorials. Hopefully they're working at joint development. The opportunity seems to be there.

[61Dynamic]

It is also very slow at rendering full screen previews, on a Dual 2.5Ghz G5.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55590\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Dual 2.3 G5 with 3.5GB RAM here 1:1 views are nice and snappy on my 5D raw images. Could be just Alpha (er Beta) bugginess, or maybe you'd benefit with more Ram. Or, previews haven't finished being created initially in the first place.

[francois]

...I've had a very quick play with Lightroom - I'm very impressed that it reads my CaptureOne settings, but apart from that, it _seems_ to be a bit superficial....

David,
What sort of Capture One settings does Lightroom read? On my computer it doesn't seem to do anything with my Capture One settings.

[Schewe]

I'd be surprised if the PixelGenius people would be happy to see Lightroom replace Photoshop for many photographers, hence cut out their market. But, since they have clearly got an inside track on this, I suppose they're already hard at work at working out how to exploit the Lightroom API. 
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55590\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

the PixelGenius folks are tickled to death with Lightroom...cause we're all photographers looking for a better workflow tool. We're also tickled to death that Lightroom's modular design will eventually allow robust 3rd party support for what arguably will be pretty interesting functionality. That said, as a preview beta, the final internal moduale design is nowehre near finished and prolly won't be until after the version 1.0 final release so I doubt any 3rd party product to appear before the final commercial shipping version.

But since all the members of PixelGenius are pretty involved in Lightroom's development, it should NOT surprise anybody if PG ends up having some pretty cool Lightroom stuff...you might say Lightroom already has some PixelGenius stuff in it...

:~)

[David Mantripp]

David,
What sort of Capture One settings does Lightroom read? On my computer it doesn't seem to do anything with my Capture One settings.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55597\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Well it appeared to be applying exposure compensation settings - but on the other hand, I could be just imaging things.  It was very late in the evening and I was not fully functional :-)

I'll check again when I get the chance.... whenever that may be.

[David Mantripp]

But since all the members of PixelGenius are pretty involved in Lightroom's development, it should NOT surprise anybody if PG ends up having some pretty cool Lightroom stuff...you might say Lightroom already has some PixelGenius stuff in it...

:~)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55644\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Jeff, please don't take this the wrong way - I have a lot of respect for you & the rest of PixelGenius, and I use your tools & apply your generous advice every time I open Photoshop.  As far as I'm concerned Photoshop is essentially a framework for running PixelGenius plugins these days :-)

BUT....  are you also providing specific feedback to Apple for Aperture, or are you firmly in the Adobe camp ?  There is an issue, perceived or otherwise, of vested interests here, just as there is with several well known photographers (e.g. Andy Rouse) involved with Pixmantec.  I think it would be only fair to make it clear if you have a commercial interest in Lightroom.

Actually, I think that Apple will profit immensely from the LR Beta. I'm sure the Adobe and other forums are being closely monitored by Aperture product management. An LR may end suffering from the arguably overstated hype it is basking in at present.  Aperture seems to be getting kicked a bit more than it deserves, possibly by certain photography opinion leaders who believe they should have been consulted by Apple (not that they're necessarily wrong).

[Schewe]

BUT....  are you also providing specific feedback to Apple for Aperture, or are you firmly in the Adobe camp ?  There is an issue, perceived or otherwise, of vested interests here, just as there is with several well known photographers (e.g. Andy Rouse) involved with Pixmantec.  I think it would be only fair to make it clear if you have a commercial interest in Lightroom.

[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55720\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

You're not very observant are ya bud?

I've never claimed to be an without vested interests...if you have any relationship with a company other than customer, you have vested interests...guess you haven't read my Shadowland dev story on PSN. I've been working on Lightroom for several years. No, I don't get paid by Adobe (except when I write articles for Adobe.com) but yes, I have my fingers way up the backsides of the Photoshop, Bridge, Camera Raw and Lightroom engineers...it's how I get the tools I want to use.

If Apple had approached me regarding feedback and development of Aperture, I would have given it. I have a long record of respecting NDA's. At one point I was under NDA for Photoshop, Live Picture and X-Res all at the same time. Each company knew I was working with the other companies and each knew I would not disclose any proprietary info. It did however, elevate the value of my opinions to all 3 companies.

Apple developed Aperture to total secrecy (although I knew about it a couple of years age-we called it iPhoto Pro for a long time). Apple also refuses to comitt to ANY 3rd party development SDK's and if Final Cut Pro (done by the same lead engineer) is any guide, don't hold your breath...

I guess you don't understand the relationship natures of Silicon Valley-that's ok, most people who don't spend time there don't have the slightest idea how things work...it's standard for companies to get into bed together on Mon and climb out of bed on Tues, sue each other on Wed, headhunt employees on Thurs and then all go out for drinks together on Fri. Mon is a start of a new week, all over again.

[David Mantripp]

You're not very observant are ya bud?

Oh, believe me, I can observe a pompous ass when I see one. It is a good thing your Pixelgenuis colleagues do a better PR job than you do.  Does it actually hurt you to be pleasant ?

Andrew Rodney seems to be able to manage to not only use Aperture, but to come up with some inventive workarounds and suggestions.  Even-handeness does a lot for credibility.

I give up. I don't belong here. Have fun.

[BlasR]

I think it's going to be a WAR.
I have Dual 2.7 powerpc g5
8 gb ddr ram
 lightroom is like pulling an old truck, I have to wait for ever to get anything.
I know is someting new and free,,but why to get something else when I have C1?
and why Adobe and lightroom not come together them my money no get waisted.

I feel the I need to wait and see if maybe in 2 years they came with something i'm not need to upgrade (paying) every years.
I think lightroom is for people have extra money to spend.
Viva C1
BlasR

[Paul Sumi]

I lightroom is like pulling an old truck, I have to wait for ever to get anything.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55849\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

BlasR,

How many photos did you catalog?  I'm trying LR on a 15" Powerbook 1.67 with 512mb RAM and it runs fast.

Paul

[BlasR]

BlasR,

How many photos did you catalog?  I'm trying LR on a 15" Powerbook 1.67 with 512mb RAM and it runs fast.

Paul
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55852\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Paul, only two from my p25.

I have apple cinema 30",  Is like Jef say it can be another company will came with something else maybe better.  As apple wait for 2 years..Maybe apple come with something better and cut the price..who knows what is going to happen with the war the going on...

BlasR

[Paul Sumi]

Paul, only two from my p25.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55858\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

LOL!   Okay, you win.  I'm only looking at 8 megapixel files from my 1D Mk2.  You're definitely stressing the app a lot more than me.

Paul

[jdyke]

Probably a bit late on this thread now but here is my tuppence worth.....

I don't think the Jeff was trying to offend...IMHO he was just telling it like it is. Most who have heard of Jeff know he is very much in the Adobe camp.

In my opinion Adobe has done the right thing by releasing a beta to the whole photographic community not just the 'photography gurus'.

It remains to be seen whether they will listen to the feedback but it does seem to be taking shape and if the right people have their fingers in the right pies then I have high hopes.  People must remeber it is still in early BETA!!  A lot of folk seem to be forgetting this.

As for Aperture....why not speak to photographers...?  If you take a broad enough range of pro photographers and gurus you are bound to get some good feedback.  Its then up to Apple to decided what is good and bad.

IMHO I think that they have asked a lot of wedge for a product that has a some pretty big flaws in it in its early versions. Hopefully it will improve and the two will compete as this can only mean improvements.

As for Andy Rouse and Pixmantec....why not? What exactly is wrong in a vested interest?

Its a very good product and one that I currenlty use.
 
Andy is a UK based wildlife photographer (and a good one at that) and by getting in with Pixmantec he has got some excellent publicity.  If you respect someone as a photographer then why not listen to what they have to say about the tools they use?

Alain Briot is happy to admit he uses RSP, DXO, ACR, Capture One....ect and has some video clips on his site with the pros and cons.  

Oh Well...I think the sayin goes...'You can please some of the people some of the time....ect.

Cheers,

JD