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Author Topic: Used digi back pricing?  (Read 32537 times)

synn

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2015, 09:07:32 am »

Just had a look at Steve's site and found this https://www.digitalback.com/product/credo-50-cambo-actus-db-bundle/

Had to check again to believe the price was not a mistake.
That's an excellent deal!
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2015, 09:25:51 am »

Just had a look at Steve's site and found this https://www.digitalback.com/product/credo-50-cambo-actus-db-bundle/

Had to check again to believe the price was not a mistake.
That's an excellent deal!


I would have to agree. Unfortunately, it is only for Hasselblad V Series Interface, but the whole bundle is $2,000 less than a Leaf Credo 50 by itself in any other interface. And if someone didn't want the Cambo Actus Kit, we could probably work something out.


Steve Hendrix
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Paul2660

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2015, 09:27:09 am »

Just had a look at Steve's site and found this https://www.digitalback.com/product/credo-50-cambo-actus-db-bundle/

Had to check again to believe the price was not a mistake.
That's an excellent deal!

An attempt to counter the 50c pricing @ 15K.  With the Aptus it's a nice starting point for sure. 

Paul
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Chris Livsey

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2015, 09:29:34 am »

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Ken R

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2015, 09:32:04 am »

Hi Ken R, yes I understand that the private sale market are quite abit cheaper (as low as 1/2 dealer price), and also pricing for different generations are more proportionately reasonable. Just trying to get a dealer perspective in case I really want to have that support and relationship

Yea. I purchased my IQ160 from a dealer (DT in NYC) and I highly recommend that path instead of a private sale (specially with the higher end backs).

I also agree that it's best to call a dealer and see what they have to offer. Not one click easy shopping as in B&H but not laborious either. Worth it IMHO.
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2015, 09:18:08 am »

An IQ160 used, privately, is around about the $12k mark all day long right now (probably less by the time I’ve finished writing this post).

From a US dealer, its around about the $21k mark.

The sensor tech is 7 years old - same as in the P65+ - which you can pick up for under $8k privately. So, if you buy an IQ160 from a dealer you're paying $13k for the interface. That's a lot of moolah.

Other things aside (do you exchange Christmas cards?), whether or not you can get a deal depends on where that used IQ160 on the dealer’s shelf has come from. Refurbished from P1, there’s not a lot of wiggle room. As a trade-in as part of some special offer upgrade program, again there's not a lot of room to move. As a regular walk-in-off-the-street-trade-in then there’s more room to make a deal. I’ve seen figures quoted as low as $10k as the dealer trade-in value for an IQ180 - which is then listed at ~$28k - so you can see how much room a dealer has to play with.

Right now isn’t a good time to be buying a used DB privately - P1 have their IQ3XX upgrade offer in place until (beginning?) of July, so DBs like the IQ160 have a temporarily artificially high value (look around the net, you’ll see people trying to sell gear saying,”..asking $21k, but worth $22k as a trade-in…”).

I would wait until the ‘mad rush’ (as if) is over and then post a wanted ad for an IQ160 with warranty (so you know you’re covered - that said, these things are bomb-proof) and see what appears. If someone with an IQ160 + warranty doesn’t take ~$12k from you, they’re delusional. We’ve passed the tipping point with MFD (‘peak MFD’) - at least via the traditional suppliers P1 and HB - so it’s always going to be a buyers market for used gear like this (the A7RII + Actus might even see me dump my MF gear - need to wait until the camera’s released though). Maybe P1 will start retiring trade-ins, or trickle them onto the used market (even more) slowly in order to keep their used value as high as they can. Who knows.

Jim
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2015, 10:24:38 am »

No affiliation whatsoever, but I noticed that digitalback.com (aka Capture Integration) is now selling used IQ180s with VA warranties (not specified how much remains, but any is better than none) for $18k. Still a good chunk of change, but for dealer pricing it breaks new ground (in the US at least; I've seen used IQ280s in Europe through P1 dealers for $18k).

Given that a private sale should be at least 25% less than a dealer, this puts private sales of IQ180s at around the $13.5k mark with VA warranty remaining. Without, and you're probably looking at significantly less.

Jim
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Theodoros

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2015, 04:39:03 pm »

I believe that it was a huge mistake by some MFDB makers to relate their products with resolution (as such) only... The more the market realizes that it is using more resolution than it needs, the more the S/H market will be under pressure...

Hi end photography market has been established by the film days to be led by pros, if there is nothing on an offering that a pro would appreciate as to add to his photography, the offering is condemned to vanish... Additionally, if the offering is only related to a fraction of tasks of what a pro does, the pro will look for alternative offerings that are directly related as to be integrated into as many of the tasks he performs... old or new, is meaningless to a pro as far as it is reliable and doesn't restrict his skills...

 Additionally, pros don't like to be directed (maybe even trapped - blackmailed) by "closed" system offerings that will make them future dependent on the maker's decisions... Hasselblad's past example, should have taught many others on the sequences of such policies... A maker has to remember that he depends on the customers... not the other way around... if the customers find that they paid more than they should as to buy a product and they can't have a "reasonable" loss as to sell it... they won't only not reinvest on the same kind of product, but they will additionally direct others as to not to do so... and those customers belong to groups of people that "know" each other well...
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2015, 07:36:50 pm »

Difficult not to agree - in a world where most images are (increasingly only) viewed on smartphones, iPads and monitors, huge MP cameras don’t make much sense to most pros. But a few will still need them, and the slack can be taken up by enthusiasts (in certain parts of the world in particular) who want the luxury/bragging rights of using ‘the best’.

I noticed that Pentax’s latest lens offering for its MF line covers a full 6x4.5 frame, so I would imagine we’re not far off seeing the appearance of a full frame 75MP - 100MP CMOS chip. If that’s the case, it would be natural for the used prices of the current crop of 80MP DBs to drop further still.

Jim
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2015, 03:19:39 am »

Four IQ160's have recently sold on Ebay from $9000 to $13600 . That is the market range in my opinion.
One IQ260 with warranty sold for $17000
Anything over $20K is sitting and not selling.



Chris, maybe a dealer is best, as they have the relations with the outfits that deal with dealers. As long as they don't kill you on the commision. But I would sell it privately if its within a thousand. Anytime I have delt with a buyer, or a seller its often been a pleasure to deal with a private sale. I'm sure the flip of this coin is true to some.
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2015, 12:07:20 pm »

Chris (the OP) sold the 260 a while back, but the thread still has use for those interested in buying a used MFDB.

For me, the benchmark (in the US at least) is the fact that you can buy a used IQ180 with VA warranty from a reputable dealer for $18k.

On that basis - if I was looking to buy privately - the following is what I would expect to pay:

IQ180 - $13.5k
IQ160 - $11k
IQ140 - $6k

Figures based on % of new retail price - e.g. IQ180 is $36k, IQ160 is $29k (=80%), and IQ140 is $16k (=45%)

Most notable eBay sales of late include:

Phase One IQ180 with VA warranty plus DF645 and 80mm, 110mm lenses for $18k.

Phase One IQ180 with DF645 Body and 75-150mm lens for $15.5k.

Whoever paid $13.5k for the IQ160 needs their head examined … you can get one from a dealer with VA warranty for $1.5k more. Makes no sense to take a chance on eBay for less than the price that the VA warranty adds. Curious that the buyer for such a big ticket item never left any feedback...
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Steve Hendrix

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #51 on: November 13, 2015, 07:34:30 pm »

Since I have seen some reference in the recent revival of this thread to pricing on our digitalback.com website, I want to clarify that some of these new low prices are specific to an auction acquisition we made within the past 2 weeks, and that yes, we were able to purchase these units for less than we would normally purchase the same refurbished model from Phase One. As a result, we passed on some of the lower cost savings to our clients. However, these models are exceptions to the normal dealer pricing and only available in the remaining small quantity.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #52 on: November 13, 2015, 10:18:51 pm »

It's nice that you passed on the savings, but it's a shame that it's only temporary.

The IQ1 series is almost 5 years old, and in the meantime Phase One have released the IQ2 and IQ3 series backs. $18k from a dealer for a used IQ180 is where the pricing should be all day long given that these are selling privately for ~$14k. The fact that you can pick up a used IQ280 from a P1 dealer in europe makes even that $18k look kinda steep...
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yashima

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #53 on: November 13, 2015, 11:42:40 pm »


Buckshot, do you have a vested interest in this matter? Why are you so obsessed with Phase One pricing? Every time I see you, you are trying to push down the price, citing some one off Ebay auction or some one time promotion. While it can be helpful if done right, most of the time, you would invade seller's post in For Sale, who are your fellow photographers, and preaching them how they over-value their equipments, with absolutely no interest in purchasing yourself.
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2015, 12:09:49 am »

I think its very helpful for him doing that, it helps us that are in the market have an idea.
We are the fellow photographers that want to also purchase. And if its a market value you look for, Ebay is a good ref for getting an idea of what things are(when its apples to apples).

Also we do see the flip side often as well on dealers that do list these tools for a chunk more than what they are worth. It also can help them influence the makers to be more innovative.
Their business is to sell, they maybe there for some folks in terms of support, but for most folks that are reselling, it is not their business to profit from the sale of them. Sure I want the best resale on my old back, but the dealers often pay less to buy them than the market value, and the only way they can do soemthing is when trading in.   I think its a good thing to find the lowest price we can to purchase. That is helping the fellow photographer. Not the other way around. Most folks got good use of their gear, why not pass the savings on to other fellow photographers?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 12:32:43 pm by Phil Indeblanc »
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buckshot

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2015, 09:58:50 am »

Buckshot, do you have a vested interest in this matter...

Henrik, is that you ?

You do realize that the thread is called, ’Used digi back pricing ?’ (and I didn't start it) don’t you ? Given that’s the case, take a wild stab at what’s going to be discussed. Common sense should tell you what to expect. But wait, you actually posted to this thread when you were looking for an IQ160, ’…looking for an IQ160 in the used market however pricing of pre-owned from dealers (I believe these pricing controlled by PhaseOne) are a little perplexing…’ (my emphasis). Maybe this discussion is useful to you ? But then again, if you’re not into buying privately, probably not - just pony up the sticker price and move on.

Who doesn't have a vested interest in saving money ? If poor little old Phase One is feeling picked on, they needn’t worry - I like to save money wherever and whenever I can (lighting, tech support, storage, insurance, studio hire - you name it); in this economy it keeps me in business. I also have a vested interest in seeing the MF sector survive - for my personal work I still find MF capture (even from an ‘old’ P series DB) on a tech cam crazily addictive. That said, know any pros of late that have got into MF ? No, me neither - in the past two years I’ve seen a number get out entirely (of ownership). On the rare occasion they need MF (i.e. the AD had a brain fart and insisted), they hire the kit. Schneider have gotten out of the game (wrt their digitar series), Sinar are (were?) in trouble, Leaf went (as an independent entity), Contax have gone, Rollei too, Mamiya were subsumed by P1, Pentax by Ricoh, Phase One had cash flow issues, and who knows what shape Hasselblad are in. Right now enthusiasts who want the luxury/bragging rights of using ‘the best’ are probably keeping the sector going, but what happens when they eventually tire of carrying around 2.5kg of gear to take holiday snaps ? In order to guarantee the long term health of MFD, the cost of entry needs to be minimized. That means the latest body + DB for under $15k. Better still, $10k. Like what Pentax are doing. Hasselblad as well with their CFV-50c.

If I’m interested in buying gear myself through a forum, I PM - so how can you know whether I am or not ? Maybe I should copy you in next time ? If I do post in a thread it’s simply to clarify a point in the listing or give some advice, especially when a newbie joins the site and their first post is to list a piece of gear for tens of thousands of dollars. LuLa is a community of photographers, and if I was about to get screwed and pay $10k over the odds (unlikely, admittedly), I hope someone would interject. Equally, I’m not going to sit by and see someone else taken for a ride.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:06:46 am by buckshot »
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ciccio

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2015, 10:16:53 am »

+1

any way phase one price today are totally fake and unreal ...
if you think that  you can buy new with full warranty a hasselblad cfv50c for less than 10000 usd...
make up your mind.

best.
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Theodoros

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2015, 10:41:39 am »

The current MFDB market is a total insane... It is based on dealing "used" backs on which there will be never shortage as there are many ways into "baptize" a new back as S/H at 40% of the price of a (same) "new" one... As a result, "new" prices are there almost entirely as to sell expensive on organizations and the "victims" that want to "trade" their older back for a ..."new" one... The fact that older backs (that are not in production) "disappear" from the market entirely (which means that the trade of price was enough to leave profit for all the maker and the dealer), although there was a "good" discount offered for the older back, proves the above....

Think about it, a S/H FF DSLR, if in production, will sell for at least 65% of its new price... With MFDBs, it's anywhere between 30-40%... It proves a lot doesn't it? I think that the CF-V 50c back pricing with respect to Credo 50, IQ-150, IQ-250, or even the 645-Z new price, should also make many as to think better when deciding to "invest" on a new back....  I am really curious to see how some will (try to) respond (explain?), to the above described examples...
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ciccio

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2015, 04:36:49 pm »

pentax 645z new price less than 7000 usd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) ;)

make up your mind...

best.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: Used digi back pricing?
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2015, 05:16:37 pm »

The whole sector is in a total dead end anyway.

Most of the pros shooting the backs do it for the leaf shutter lenses for beauty/fashion. They shoot those backs at f11 because of the applcations (and AF/MF limitations for productive work) and at those f stops 40mp and 80mp are very hard to distinghuish due to diffraction.

More resolution in future backs will deliver zero real world value, yet the upgrade prices will continue to be stratospheric... which only pleases one category of buyers... the luxury crowd.

Cheers,
Bernard
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