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Author Topic: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810  (Read 24114 times)

dwswager

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2015, 11:54:03 AM »

I hate to revisit this topic, but I just can't seem to understand the consternation over the Nikkor 24-70 f/2.8G.  Yes, added VR would be nice.  And Yes, the added range of the 24-120mm f/4VR is great. 

The fundamental fact remains that the Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G is by far used to make more images by professional Nikon shooters than any other lens and in all types of photography from sports, to weddings to landscape.  Every time I look at a video or article, it is almost always the 24-70mm that is being used by the photographer. 

Nikon Behind the Scenes: Capturing Fast Indoor Sports in Challenging Light Video

In addition to the video above, I was reading an article on image chaser titled Moose Peterson Helps You Prep A Photo Adventure Checklist.  The tidbit I pulled out was that while John Shaw and Moose Peterson's camera bags share only one lens in common...The 24-70mm f/2.8G! 

Bottom Line...If you don't think the 24-70mm f/2.8G is good enough for you, it is on you. 
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Lightsmith

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2015, 06:46:09 PM »

I have been shooting with the Nikon 24-70mm lens since 2008 and not experience any problems with CA and that is with tens of thousands of images shot with this lens. With the D810 and shooting RAW you will have to use the Capture NX-D software and it will adjust for CA and any other lens aberrations when you convert the file to a TIFF. I have yet to find a sharper zoom lens than this Nikon and it is sharper than many of the Nikon and Canon primes I have used in its focal range.
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DeanChriss

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2015, 03:13:04 PM »

Every controlled test I've seen of the Nikon 24-70 shows more purple fringing around high contrast lines than I'd like, as have some real world photos I've seen. This CA can be fixed in software as long as it's symmetrical, though I've seen reputable reviewers report that their samples also exhibited asymmetrical CA that is not easily fixed in software. There are also controlled tests showing focus blur in full frame corners due to field curvature at long distances, which isn't fixable either. Regardless, I'd prefer the fixable things to be fixed in Adobe Camera Raw instead of Capture NX-D.

A few of many references:
http://www.photozone.de/Reviews/236-nikkor-af-s-24-70mm-f28g-ed-review--test-report
www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_Nikkor_AF-S_24-70mm_f2-8G_ED/
Also see CA numbers on DXO Mark.

You can also compare to the Canon equivalent here and you'll notice some extremely visible differences, even stopped down, especially in the corners. Mouse over the image to compare.
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=787&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=618&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

I think the Nikon 24-70 is the best zoom in the range that fits a Nikon, just like Canon sensors are the best sensors that fit into a Canon. Neither fact makes the lens or sensor "stellar", it makes them the best you can get for a particular system. I'm not here to put down anyone's favorite lens, but because I'm after a Nikon system for the sole purpose of improved image quality the Nikon 24-70 isn't the lens I want. I've already decided that the only way I'd do this is with Sigma Art 50mm and 35mm primes plus a Zeiss 25mm prime. I initially said I didn't want primes due to size and weight, but way too much research points to this as the definitive solution. If you compare these, even stopped down beyond F8 to the Nikon zoom, they're clearly superior. They're superior to the Canon zoom too, but by F8 the differences are very small.

FWIW, I'm looking to add this Nikon-based system to what I've got versus switching from one system to the other. I'm not a "fan" of either one, but I'd love to somehow combine the strengths of both, and I also think both have weaknesses.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 03:20:23 PM by DeanChriss »
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armand

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2015, 03:23:13 PM »

I looked into this quite a lot when I got my D750 and I decided to go with the 24-120 F4, but price did make it more palatable (it was 600 off).
For reasons I'm not totally clear yet Thom Hogan sold his 24-70 F2.8 as he was not "happy" with it.

The 24-120 has limitations but it started to grow a little on me, from meh to acceptable. I do shoot often over 70 mm.

dwswager

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2015, 08:03:25 PM »

Just so we know the facts.  The image attached is the MTF data from Photozone for the AF-S NIKKOR 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Lens, Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM Lens and Tamron SP 24-70mm f/2.8 DI VC USD Lens.

For those not willing to look at the image:  The Nikon is sharper at all 3 focal lengths and all apertures.  It has worse fall off in the borders and corners wide open than the canon, but even that disadvantage disappears at f/4.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 10:02:52 PM by dwswager »
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E.J. Peiker

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #45 on: February 02, 2015, 11:27:18 PM »

Is there a link for their testing methodology somewhere?  I ask because I'd like to better understand how they do their tests since the data is a bit different from the tests I've done and several other's I've read.  Not saying they are wrong, at least on their samples, but I would like to understand what they are doing to obtain their results.
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dwswager

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #46 on: February 03, 2015, 09:47:07 AM »

Is there a link for their testing methodology somewhere?  I ask because I'd like to better understand how they do their tests since the data is a bit different from the tests I've done and several other's I've read.  Not saying they are wrong, at least on their samples, but I would like to understand what they are doing to obtain their results.

Google is your friend!  Photozone Lens Test FAQ

Here is my big point: Two lenses that are marginally separated in a specific performance characteristic will tend to perform identical when taken in the field. Lens tests are lab experiments under controlled conditions.  They do not translate directly to field work where uncontrolled/uncontrollable variables interfere limiting performance at a lower point than the lab controlled performance ceiling.  The objective of lens testing then is to weed out poor performers, identify stellar performers (and lenses that outperform their price points) and to identify strengths and weaknesses of a particular lens to assist in buying decisions. 
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AFairley

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2015, 12:29:31 PM »

Thanks for the link to the Photozone FAQ.  I am assuming that in their tests they focus on the center and let field curvature do its thing.  Am I right?
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dwswager

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #48 on: February 03, 2015, 02:18:15 PM »

Thanks for the link to the Photozone FAQ.  I am assuming that in their tests they focus on the center and let field curvature do its thing.  Am I right?

Typically, they report the field curvature, but refocus when getting sharpness results for the corners. 
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alan_b

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2015, 02:36:17 PM »

Looks like there's an updated 24-70 PF VR in the pipeline:
Nikon Rumors
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dwswager

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #50 on: February 03, 2015, 08:05:15 PM »

Looks like there's an updated 24-70 PF VR in the pipeline:
Nikon Rumors
Just a patent.   Been rumors of a 24-70mm VR for years.  Belive it when they announce it.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #51 on: February 03, 2015, 08:58:49 PM »

Looks like there's an updated 24-70 PF VR in the pipeline:
Nikon Rumors

Yes, this is getting interesting!

Those are exactly the kind of specs that would make me consider re-investing in such a lens.

We'd just have to see how it behaves with light sources in the frame.

Cheers,
Bernard

E.J. Peiker

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2015, 09:57:42 PM »

Google is your friend!  Photozone Lens Test FAQ

Here is my big point: Two lenses that are marginally separated in a specific performance characteristic will tend to perform identical when taken in the field. Lens tests are lab experiments under controlled conditions.  They do not translate directly to field work where uncontrolled/uncontrollable variables interfere limiting performance at a lower point than the lab controlled performance ceiling.  The objective of lens testing then is to weed out poor performers, identify stellar performers (and lenses that outperform their price points) and to identify strengths and weaknesses of a particular lens to assist in buying decisions.  

Thanks for the link.  It confirmed what I was afraid of and why I asked about the testing methodology.  Their methodology largely invalidates the comparison that you posted earlier IMHO - the tests aren't done on a test bench but rather on the respective camera manufacturer's bodies and therefore the results are sensor dependent.  For a true comparison of the lenses themselves, the test needs to be done in a sensor independent way.  So a Canon lens on a Canon 22mp camera with AA filter resolving approximately the same as the Nikon lens on a 36mp sensor without does not support that the Nikon lens is equivalent or better.  It actually doesn't say much of anything but in general, when lenses are tested on a higher resolution sensor they have higher resolution scores so if the Canon were tested on a 36mp sensor, it would likely outscore the Nikon lens.  This is consistent with my findings when I compared both lenses on an a7R - same sensor on each lens.  The Canon outresolved the Nikon by about 10% and it was pretty consistent across the board.

This directly from the link you provided:

Q: Will the resolution increase with new sensor related technologies ?

To some degree - yes. Assuming the manufacturers will find a way to get rid of the sensor low-pass filter there'll be a substantial gain for instance. Some lenses will also benefit from higher megapixels specifically in the center.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2015, 10:00:28 PM by E.J. Peiker »
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dwswager

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2015, 10:06:33 AM »

Thanks for the link.  It confirmed what I was afraid of and why I asked about the testing methodology.  Their methodology largely invalidates the comparison that you posted earlier IMHO - the tests aren't done on a test bench but rather on the respective camera manufacturer's bodies and therefore the results are sensor dependent.  For a true comparison of the lenses themselves, the test needs to be done in a sensor independent way.  So a Canon lens on a Canon 22mp camera with AA filter resolving approximately the same as the Nikon lens on a 36mp sensor without does not support that the Nikon lens is equivalent or better.  It actually doesn't say much of anything but in general, when lenses are tested on a higher resolution sensor they have higher resolution scores so if the Canon were tested on a 36mp sensor, it would likely outscore the Nikon lens.  This is consistent with my findings when I compared both lenses on an a7R - same sensor on each lens.  The Canon outresolved the Nikon by about 10% and it was pretty consistent across the board.

This directly from the link you provided:

Q: Will the resolution increase with new sensor related technologies ?

To some degree - yes. Assuming the manufacturers will find a way to get rid of the sensor low-pass filter there'll be a substantial gain for instance. Some lenses will also benefit from higher megapixels specifically in the center.

If you look closely at Photozone their tests tend to be on like cameras.  In fact, my complaint is that the tests tend to be on older cameras that don't test/stress the lens.  I've not seen a Photozone test done with a D800 or D810.  Most FF nikon are shot on the D3x.  DxOMark does do testing on numerous bodies and you can select your own comparison.  I used PhotoZone's tests here because the Canon people get all pissy over DxOMark because their sensor ratings have the best Canon sensor rated just below the $500 consumer Nikon D5300 sensor.

And, at the end of the day, the camera matters!  How the lens performs ON CAMERA is what counts. 

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E.J. Peiker

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Re: 24-70 mm Lens for Nikon D810
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2015, 12:56:49 PM »

If they used a D3x on one and a 5D Mk III on the other, it's at least in the same ballpark.
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