Buying a 645Z in Japan?

[tsjanik]

Great idea.  I'm sure Bernard would like to visit the Buffalo, NY area this time of year.  A  great opportunity to test the white balance of his equipment   

[Lacunapratum]

Glad to see that you are ready to splurge, Tom.  I am sure you won't regret, wherever you buy.  Tom

[tsjanik]

Hi Tom:

I think it was always a question of when I would buy a 645Z not if, even if I don't admit that to myself.  Part of me wishes I'd stayed with film and not boarded the digital upgrade treadmill. 

Tom

[geezerhood]

Hi Tom:

I think it was always a question of when I would buy a 645Z not if, even if I don't admit that to myself.  Part of me wishes I'd stayed with film and not boarded the digital upgrade treadmill. 

Tom

I like that visual image ---- The digital upgrade treadmill ---- It brings to mind an image of a photographer chasing a camera being held out in front of him on a string, just out of reach.  I am ON it and I want OFF! (sort of)

Digital cameras are now like cell phones, a new one at least every year. But then I think about going back to film, lugging 70 lbs of gear 15 miles through the desert and hoping I got some keepers, rather than KNOWING I have them minutes after the exposure. Leaving film was extremely liberating for me in many ways and my keepers have increased percentage wise and number wise substantially (as have the number of hard drives I keep handy!)

My D800e body is now worth $1400 to maybe $2000 just two years later. Kind of depressing considering that every time I click the shutter I secretly wish it was with a 645z rather than my D800e! 

On the other hand if the 645z follows that pattern, losing almost HALF its value in two years for a used one, I should be able to buy a mint condition 645z in the USA two and a half years from now for close to $4000.

[geezerhood]

Thanks, I saw that.  When you enter a shipping address in the US, you're informed that they cannot ship there   

Yup, I tried that too with every seller listed. I also contacted some camera shops in Japan and was told they would not ship to the USA.

I have a friend in Japan, willing to buy and ship me a Z.  She will have to pay tax on it though, which as I recall was 5%.  So a bit over $300, putting the final amount around $6600 with shipping. My 2nd option is a friends company who has offices in Japan and can buy stuff without tax and ship it to the USA, but the question that I have not been able to answer 100% is if there will be any US govt imposed fees or taxes on the gear.  One thing you do NOT want to do is ship by UPS or FedEx (Not totally sure on FedEx) as they charge ridiculously high customs brokerage fees. Ship by Mail, no brokerage fees, although there might be insurance claim issues when sent by mail.

[Dshelly]

Ok, so I tried to see if I could get a deal on the Alibaba website and here's a response I got from a gent in Denmark:

Richy Davids
Please Contact tradenowlimited @gmail.com  Free Member
Denmark
RE: Price inquiry from D. Shelly in United States

The Pentax 645Z Medium Format Digital SLR Camera Body Cost $4,900USD each

Please Contact us via our email address or skype:
EMAIL : [email protected]
SKYPE NAME : trade.now1

[eronald]

Ok, so I tried to see if I could get a deal on the Alibaba website and here's a response I got from a gent in Denmark:

Richy Davids
Please Contact tradenowlimited @gmail.com  Free Member
Denmark
RE: Price inquiry from D. Shelly in United States

The Pentax 645Z Medium Format Digital SLR Camera Body Cost $4,900USD each

Please Contact us via our email address or skype:
EMAIL : [email protected]
SKYPE NAME : trade.now1

I don't know if they are reputable, but this sounds like the right discounted-to-the-bone price.
The price which B&H would be selling at, if they hadn't put everyone else out of business.

Edmund

[ndevlin]

DShelly,

That's a scam.  That's below Pentax's cost. Wave off.

- N.

[eronald]

DShelly,

That's a scam.  That's below Pentax's cost. Wave off.

- N.

Nick -
I agree it may be a scam.

 However that's about 20% below the *sales* price of Map Camera, and so it sounds close to the wholesale price but not necessarily below it. If Pentax or one of their wholesalers want to log a year-end sales bump, they'll clear out any spare inventory to anyone who can pay.

 I don't think it's below Pentax's "cost", which if you just factor in the marginal, incremental cost of materials and assembly salaries I would expect to be well under $1.5K, certainly less than $2K. This doesn't of course factor in R&D, the costs of setting up production, provisions for service costs, and the major political contributions that may be required to keep any company afloat (see Olympus). The biggest parts cost here is the sensor from Sony, but I would expect that prices here would gradually fall  as Sony's design costs, masks etc are amortized, thereby permitting a very significant price drop towards the end of the model life. High margin electronics is a good business to be in, as Apple is demonstrating every day. The low end is a different story.

Edmund

[Ken R]

Has anyone actually purchased the 645Z at those low prices? anyone?

[Dshelly]

Here's the email I got from the Alibaba vendor (see below) for the Pentax 645z. I'm skeptical in that he notes a website to check out that's simply a holding page with no credible info or products for sale. He's also not a "Verified" vendor for Alibaba. The guy suggested that I use Money Gram as a way to securely buy the product. I've never used Money Gram, but I read some bad online reviews about their customer service. I think the only way I would consider buying from him is if we did a "Payment upon Delivery" set up.

-----------------


Hello,

Thanks for your mail.

We are Apple Electronics Limited,we sell mobile phones,tv's,laptops,Digital Camera,Musical Instruments,TV's Etc.
You can check some information about us on the below website: http://appleelectronics.com/
Please revert back so we can feed you with any other information needed.

We hope by now you can trust us and at least have some knowledge about whom you are dealing with?..

Best Regards


-------------

 Also, I heard from another Alibaba vendor who claims he can sell me the camera for the grand ol' price of 2000 USD LOL. This guy is located in the United States. His profile has zero information on his location, website, company, or phone number. He has just an email. There is a section where you can send an email to get all his information.

[eronald]

Has anyone actually purchased the 645Z at those low prices? anyone?

The Yodobashi and MapCamera prices cited above are from very established bricks and mortar retailers.
Yododbashi is probably larger than B&H in the US. You can go there and get just about *anything* japanese.

Edmund

[tsjanik]

Prices too good to be true remind me of a Gary Larson cartoon:

[ndevlin]

Dhelley,

Why don't you go halvesies with eronald on a $4000 645z, but order it through me instead. That was you can be  guaranteed that the box will arrive in pristine condition. With nothing inside.   

- N.

[eronald]

Dhelley,

Why don't you go halvesies with eronald on a $4000 645z, but order it through me instead. That was you can be  guaranteed that the box will arrive in pristine condition. With nothing inside.   

- N.

Frankly, I'm surprised that no US dealer will provide a decent price on this product. Usually US prices are roughly aligned with Japanese ones. A decent local dealer is valuable, but probably not worth $4K

Edmund

Edmund

[Manoli]

Edmund is correct about MAP, the 645Z is around $6000 with a passport.  

B&H offer a worldwide delivery service, all taxes and import duties of the destination country paid & guaranteed.
MAP price is $6,000
B&H price is $8,499

Based on the B&H price, taxes and delivery, in addition to the $8,499 would be

UK / France $1,827
Italy - $2,004

If based on the MAP price of $6,000 they would in all likelihood be less, particularly as B&H most probably include a 10% 'safety margin'. UPS Worldwide, 3-5 day delivery is $137 (included in the b&H price).

So, cost of a 645z EU delivered , is probably $7,500 - $8,000 all duties and taxes paid. A saving of $2,500-$3,000. USA about $1,000 less. 

--

On a cam as 'substantial' as the 645z, don't think it's even worth considering the other options mentioned so far.

Suspect that Pentax may well be viewing this as a 'pilot scheme', waiting to see what the take-up factor is.  They've made no secret of their preference to centralise their ops (in Japan) and yes, you need to send the cam back to Japan if you need service or repair - but then you've got to do the same with Leica - so it's not necessarily a deal breaker.  

Add to the above that the Yen has devalued by almost 22% since August, if the demand picks up it's a 'win-win' situation . 'Win' because boxes shipped&sold increase and 'win' because Yen revenue will be up -  cross elasticity of demand at work.

  

[Chris Livsey]

So, cost of a 645z EU delivered , is probably $7,500 - $8,000 all duties and taxes paid. A saving of $2,500-$3,000. USA about $1,000 less.  

List price UK body only is £6,799 = $8587  I don't see a saving of $2,500-$3,000 ?

http://shop-uk.ricoh-imaging.eu/kameras/medium-format-digital/pentax-645-z.html
http://www.calphoto.co.uk/category/pentax645z?gclid=CKHO9-SRqMICFQ6WtAodEzcAqw

Prices quoted by me include UK VAT, reclaimable by a VAT registered business (20%)

[Manoli]

List price UK body only is £6,799 = $8587  I don't see a saving of $2,500-$3,000 ?

If you can reclaim VAT, ( and charge depreciation against tax) it obviously makes the differences relatively minor ( less than 500gbp / $800) and hardly worth the aggravation. I looked at it from the pov of an amateur, not a pro.  Also in the US , it's relatively easy to avoid sales tax, just have the cam posted to an address out of state.

If the yen continues it's decline though, that may still be reflected, at some point, with reduced 'pro' pricing on both continents. 22% is a big move. Probably more to come.

M

[eronald]

List price UK body only is £6,799 = $8587  I don't see a saving of $2,500-$3,000 ?

£/$ =1.56 at today's rates. Maybe you could do your sums again? Or maybe I'm missing something?

Edmund

[Chris Livsey]

Don't do sums, I'm not a techie  , stuck it in an online converter, maybe a different dollar?