ImagePrint... Really?

[digitaldog]

I'm still using i1Profiler, but I really like the improvements I get when I use Colorant.

Haven't used IP since version 6. But all their profiles appeared to me to exhibit an issue with saturated blues shifting a bit magenta which I never saw on my custom profiles in either X-rite or GMB software. Maybe it got fixed, I bitched to them about it many years ago.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

Haven't used IP since version 6. But all their profiles appeared to me to exhibit an issue with saturated blues shifting a bit magenta which I never saw on my custom profiles in either X-rite or GMB software. Maybe it got fixed, I bitched to them about it many years ago.

But today you prefer CoPrA, I've read. What are the advantages that you see over i1Profiler? I hate their interface, I miss a lot of features that we had in ProfileMaker, but is the quality of the profiles improved?

[digitaldog]

But today you prefer CoPrA, I've read.

For CMYK output to a very specific kind of press, yes.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

For CMYK output to a very specific kind of press, yes.

OK, so you don't see any quality advantage with profiles for inkjet printing? I will do my own comparison, but good to hear your opinion.

[digitaldog]

OK, so you don't see any quality advantage with profiles for inkjet printing? I will do my own comparison, but good to hear your opinion.

I did an initial test for RGB inkjet and both looked good, but 99% of the work was CMYK with that product. I’m still using i1P for RGB profiles for the time being.

[robgo2]

I love ImagePrint, especially for B&W printing using custom B&W paper profiles.  Think of it--you can accurately soft proof grayscale images, something that is not possible with ABW.  I prefer to do the soft proofing in Photoshop, which is a simple matter with IP's Profile Manager.  Also, when selecting a B&W profile in Photoshop, be sure to check the "Preserve Numbers" box.  This gives extremely deep and rich shadows, which can show tremendous detail after proper adjustment of contrast and shadows.  Of course, as with any software, there is a learning curve.  Don't expect perfect results right from the start.

Rob

[Alan Goldhammer]

I love ImagePrint, especially for B&W printing using custom B&W paper profiles.  Think of it--you can accurately soft proof grayscale images, something that is not possible with ABW. 
Rob

You can still softproof using QTR prepared ABW profiles and Windows OS.  We've been around this issue a lot of times since MacOS locked users out of this ability.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

You can still softproof using QTR prepared ABW profiles and Windows OS.  We've been around this issue a lot of times since MacOS locked users out of this ability.

Windows 

[robgo2]

You can still softproof using QTR prepared ABW profiles and Windows OS.  We've been around this issue a lot of times since MacOS locked users out of this ability.

As I understand it, soft proofing with QTR is only available for Windows users inside PS, but even so, it requires invoking a program other than LR or PS to accomplish the task.  Regardless, like some other folks in this thread, the B&W output from ImagePrint is superior to anything that I am able to get from ABW.  You just have to take time to learn how to get the most from it.  However, once you have mastered that, it is really fast and simple to use.

Rob

[Alan Goldhammer]

As I understand it, soft proofing with QTR is only available for Windows users inside PS, but even so, it requires invoking a program other than LR or PS to accomplish the task. 

Only to prepare the profile.  Once you have the profile, soft proofing works just fine in either PS or LR.  Eric Chan prepared ABW profiles once upon a time that were excellent but stopped right about the time that Mac OS blocked their use.  Making QTR profiles is pretty easy and can be done with either an i1Pro or ColorMunki.

[TylerB]

QTR profiles in PS on the Mac just dandy

[Stefan Ohlsson]

Only to prepare the profile.  Once you have the profile, soft proofing works just fine in either PS or LR.  Eric Chan prepared ABW profiles once upon a time that were excellent but stopped right about the time that Mac OS blocked their use.  Making QTR profiles is pretty easy and can be done with either an i1Pro or ColorMunki.

But I have to create them, validate them, probably do some minor adjustments to them and I have to do this for each and every paper that I use. For those of you that have one or two papers that you use for all of your images, for those of you that enjoy making your own profiles, it's probably OK. I think I would use QTR if I didn't have to print on 10-15 different papers, if time saved for me equals more job that I can charge my customers, if I haven't been printing with ImagePrint since more that 12 years and really know how to get the best out of the program.
Often this discussions on which program is the best ends up in a ”My father is stronger than your father” level. There's room for different solutions as we all have different workflows, place different demands on quality vs. ease of use and so on.

[Alan Goldhammer]

@Stefan - no question that if you are running a printing business ImagePrint makes sense.  I print on maybe 3 papers total so I can take the time to generate the best possible profiles using ArgyllCMS.  For me the cost of ImagePrint cannot be justified.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

@Stefan - no question that if you are running a printing business ImagePrint makes sense.  I print on maybe 3 papers total so I can take the time to generate the best possible profiles using ArgyllCMS.  For me the cost of ImagePrint cannot be justified.

Of course, as I said, if I just did this for my own prints I would look into QTR. We've been looking interested in Piezography, but haven't had the possibility to have one printer dedicated to B&W. Also we have to be able to reprint an image months, maybe years after the first print. As we save such jobs so that we can later reprint them with exakt the same settings, the only thing that can vary is the ink. We've found that the Epson original inks are very stable from batch to batch. Is it the same with Piezography inks? Anyone who has reprinted a job with new inks and really compared the two prints?

[TylerB]

as one of many who have provided custom B&W large format ink printing for many years, and in my case several iterations of Cone inks, from the 1st, to Piezotones, to the current K7 sets, which have also evolved since introduction, I can state unequivocally I have never had batch inconsistency with their ink, and I've gone through a lot if it.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

[digitaldog]

as one of many who have provided custom B&W large format ink printing for many years, and in my case several iterations of Cone inks, from the 1st, to Piezotones, to the current K7 sets, which have also evolved since introduction, I can state unequivocally I have never had batch inconsistency with their ink, and I've gone through a lot if it.

Is this a visual or instrument (measured) analysis?

[TylerB]

measured, definitely.. linearized custom ink setups in Ergosoft.. and continually relinearized and check against the previous state.

I'm sure there have been inconsistency instances, even with OEM inks or any inks. Obvioulsy the initial sundance ink is a long and very old story and no longer fair burdening on Cone. . . But my experiences with their inks have been great. Can't say the same for a few others, and no I won't name them.

[Stefan Ohlsson]

as one of many who have provided custom B&W large format ink printing for many years, and in my case several iterations of Cone inks, from the 1st, to Piezotones, to the current K7 sets, which have also evolved since introduction, I can state unequivocally I have never had batch inconsistency with their ink, and I've gone through a lot if it.
Tyler
http://www.custom-digital.com/

Interesting, I was really curious about this, not questioning them.

Best

Stefan
www.profiler.nu

[Jager]

I'll have more to say a little bit down the road - which I'll likely post in a separate thread - but as the OP I'd just like to say that after several days of printing with Cone's Piezography K7 Warm Neutral inkset, I am deeply impressed.

This was not a road I expected to be on.  I started this thread out of the - rather casual - wonder if a RIP made a difference.  And now I'm here.

Epiphanies find us when we least expect them...

[DarrenVena]

Try taking a look at LaserSoft's New mac based print solution for Epson and Canon printers. PrinTao 8 is much like a RIP but much easier to learn. Very straight forward interface. ICC profiles from the major paper manufacturers are already in the software making them easily accessible. There are many features to explain but trying the demo might be the best solution. Read the User guide as it provides more info. Plus, did I mention, there is not a dongle in sight.

printao8.com