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Author Topic: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper  (Read 25641 times)

rxchaos

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2014, 02:32:20 pm »

Is the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin something similar to Moab's Moenkopi Kozo paper?
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2014, 05:17:43 am »

Is the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin something similar to Moab's Moenkopi Kozo paper?
I'd have to see the spec - but at 110gm the Japanese Kozo Thin is less that 1/3 the weight. It was never a challenge to create a printable Kozo. The challenge was 34gm. Nothing on the market from Japan, Korea or China equals the Dmax, abrasion resistance, weight or texture of the Epson Kozo.
The recent review in the French magazine Workflow which give 8.5/10 rating states 'L50 gamut of the Epson Kozo is very large for a paper of this kind. The equivalent in Awagami is very far behind. The D- Max is also very incredible for a paper in this category' It also listed Epson's Japanese Kozo paper Thin as a 'Favorite' and with a healthy list of 'Pros' the only 'Con' was that currently it is only available on Roll.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 05:25:35 am by garywornell »
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2014, 05:31:54 am »

Any ideas of pricing?
European prices - approx: 17” (10 m) : 79 €  • 24” (10 m) : 112 €
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2014, 06:00:39 am »

Gary, how easy would be to peel the backing off, let's say an A1 print? Thanks.
Check out this early development video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAcoeOuwS4o&list=UUfZrQ8GctedKl51AhlqFMZA
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alain

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2014, 06:29:11 am »

Hello,
Short answer yes.
When you cut the sheet you will need to keep it rolled in a tube before feeding into the paper feed (manual rear) because there may be a tendency for the paper to curl in the wrong direction if left too long off the roll. The sheet product has over come this, but is not yet in full scale production.


Thanks for the info.  Are there 3800 icc profiles made by epson?
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alain

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2014, 06:31:05 am »

European prices - approx: 17” (10 m) : 79 €  • 24” (10 m) : 112 €

Hi how does the start and end behaves?  10m is short and if the first and last 0.5m are not usable...
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2014, 08:51:00 pm »

Hi how does the start and end behaves?  10m is short and if the first and last 0.5m are not usable...
Its 10m.
G
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chez

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #47 on: November 08, 2014, 09:57:38 pm »

Its 10m.
G

But quite often the last few feet of a roll are not usable. Is that the case with this paper?
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2014, 10:10:52 pm »

But quite often the last few feet of a roll are not usable. Is that the case with this paper?
I can't imagine why. I have printed about 2 km of paper in 10 years and not had that experience. In my commercial printing I allow 20% loss in my calculations on pricing jobs - if there is a problem with the paper I accept it. Drop outs from dust particles or small defects can happen in any paper. We are printers. Loss is part of the process. This paper also has potential for losses. There are small lumps of fibre, small pieces of bark and very occasionally a small oil spot. In the spirit of a paper specifically designed to get away from absolute perfect the Japanese Kozo Paper Thin achieves a wonderful balance of hand made and amazing other qualities. Those who want this paper will accept the occasional loss, or they will simply not use it.

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rxchaos

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2014, 11:09:49 pm »

Just wondering what media type would one set for the paper on an Epson7900.  "Velvet Fine Paper" as used for Hahnemühle's Rice paper or "Ultrasmooth fine art paper"
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2014, 11:58:58 pm »

Just wondering what media type would one set for the paper on an Epson7900.  "Velvet Fine Paper" as used for Hahnemühle's Rice paper or "Ultrasmooth fine art paper"
USFAP normally.
Epson's updated software includes the Japanese Kozo in the media type.
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alain

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2014, 07:07:19 am »

I can't imagine why. I have printed about 2 km of paper in 10 years and not had that experience. In my commercial printing I allow 20% loss in my calculations on pricing jobs - if there is a problem with the paper I accept it. Drop outs from dust particles or small defects can happen in any paper. We are printers. Loss is part of the process. This paper also has potential for losses. There are small lumps of fibre, small pieces of bark and very occasionally a small oil spot. In the spirit of a paper specifically designed to get away from absolute perfect the Japanese Kozo Paper Thin achieves a wonderful balance of hand made and amazing other qualities. Those who want this paper will accept the occasional loss, or they will simply not use it.


Unfortunately I did quite often and if that's the result of an imprint of the structure of a paperboard core roll on the paper, I'm not that happy.  This type of problem can be avoided at production.
As I'm not printing commercial, the cost is on me. 

I do know that I lose some prints, that's part of the process.
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chez

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2014, 07:42:55 am »

I can't imagine why. I have printed about 2 km of paper in 10 years and not had that experience. In my commercial printing I allow 20% loss in my calculations on pricing jobs - if there is a problem with the paper I accept it. Drop outs from dust particles or small defects can happen in any paper. We are printers. Loss is part of the process. This paper also has potential for losses. There are small lumps of fibre, small pieces of bark and very occasionally a small oil spot. In the spirit of a paper specifically designed to get away from absolute perfect the Japanese Kozo Paper Thin achieves a wonderful balance of hand made and amazing other qualities. Those who want this paper will accept the occasional loss, or they will simply not use it.



And I'm speaking from experience using rolls where I find the last few feet of a roll is not usable. Since these rolls are shorter, that just makes the percentage of throw away higher. I'd rather see 40' rolls rather than shorter ones
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alain

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2014, 07:43:01 am »

Two more questions :

Till which size is it -safely- possible to do a strech mount?  I've seen the picture of hanging stretch mounted photo's in a exposition way up this thread, are the not very fragile?

In one of you're video's you "glu" them to a clear pmma sheet with an diluted acrylic "glu", can you give information on it?  The paper is so thin i fear most products would come thru the paper.

Alain
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Ken Doo

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2014, 10:13:31 am »

Don't know if it is a problem with this product from Epson (imprint of the structure of a paperboard core roll on the paper)---Gary might know.  Breathing Color's thin foam on the cardboard core helps alleviate/address waste of media at the end of the roll.  Great idea and I wish more manufacturers would do the same.  Another pet peeve is when manufacturers tape the media to itself, so when you pull off the tape, you lose about a foot of media at the start of the roll.

ken

Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #55 on: November 09, 2014, 02:26:37 pm »

And I'm speaking from experience using rolls where I find the last few feet of a roll is not usable. Since these rolls are shorter, that just makes the percentage of throw away higher. I'd rather see 40' rolls rather than shorter ones

The thickness of the two paper layers is approximately that of 175 gsm paper and the paper is quite hard, that combo can not be compared with a paper like the soft German Etching 310 grams where the edge of the first winding on the core will emboss the second and third winding. I have no roll here but I think it will not be a real issue.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
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alain

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #56 on: November 09, 2014, 02:48:35 pm »

The thickness of the two paper layers is approximately that of 175 gsm paper and the paper is quite hard, that combo can not be compared with a paper like the soft German Etching 310 grams where the edge of the first winding on the core will emboss the second and third winding. I have no roll here but I think it will not be a real issue.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
September 2014, 650+ inkjet media white spectral plots.

Ernst

For me it is also mostly a heavy paper  (Harman Gloss Baryta by Hahnemühle), but I also see an embossement from spiral inside the core itself up to two windings.  The paper edge can be "cut" out with some positioning and the parts between could be used for "smaller" prints.  The spirals are more problematic.

Hopefully the Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin doesn't has it.  I suppose Gary can see it if it's there.

Alain
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2014, 02:30:20 am »

Two more questions :

Till which size is it -safely- possible to do a strech mount?  I've seen the picture of hanging stretch mounted photo's in a exposition way up this thread, are the not very fragile?

In one of you're video's you "glu" them to a clear pmma sheet with an diluted acrylic "glu", can you give information on it?  The paper is so thin i fear most products would come thru the paper.

Alain

Stretch mounting is a beautiful technique - but you do need to be careful. As I had them in an exhibition, there was no problem, but mounted on a wall I would put the image into another frame behind the mounted image and without glass or with glass depending on the amount of protection you feel is necessary according to where it is hung. certainly stretched you get the translucent feeling which you don't get in other framing techniques. Sizes I have framed like this are 24" x 36" no problem. The media width is 24" off the roll.

The acrylic method I was using last year in the Epson Video for acrylic or polycarbonate transparency is now replaced by a dry method with Neutral PH double sided tape as they use in framing shops. Covers the whole of the back of the print and laminator does the work. Nice effect. I recently put an artists large 1m x 40 cm on prepared birch ply and used the acrylic medium diluted 10% distilled water then slid the image into place after having first dampened the image with a spray. The spray gave the paper a chance to stretch before placing it and it dried perfectly flat. This is a craft technique - as as I have spent 40 years in craft - I have the ability to do this where others might be all fingers and thumbs. Takes time to learn skills!  ;)
Gary
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 02:35:36 am by garywornell »
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garywornell

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2014, 02:37:23 am »

And I'm speaking from experience using rolls where I find the last few feet of a roll is not usable. Since these rolls are shorter, that just makes the percentage of throw away higher. I'd rather see 40' rolls rather than shorter ones
Thanks - I'll pass this on to Epson - good idea. That waste is always a factor - but if you have only one time wast on 40" you have much less loss.
Gary
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alain

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Re: Epson Japanese Kozo Paper Thin - New Signature Worthy Fine Art Paper
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2014, 04:48:15 am »

Stretch mounting is a beautiful technique - but you do need to be careful. As I had them in an exhibition, there was no problem, but mounted on a wall I would put the image into another frame behind the mounted image and without glass or with glass depending on the amount of protection you feel is necessary according to where it is hung. certainly stretched you get the translucent feeling which you don't get in other framing techniques. Sizes I have framed like this are 24" x 36" no problem. The media width is 24" off the roll.

The acrylic method I was using last year in the Epson Video for acrylic or polycarbonate transparency is now replaced by a dry method with Neutral PH double sided tape as they use in framing shops. Covers the whole of the back of the print and laminator does the work. Nice effect. I recently put an artists large 1m x 40 cm on prepared birch ply and used the acrylic medium diluted 10% distilled water then slid the image into place after having first dampened the image with a spray. The spray gave the paper a chance to stretch before placing it and it dried perfectly flat. This is a craft technique - as as I have spent 40 years in craft - I have the ability to do this where others might be all fingers and thumbs. Takes time to learn skills!  ;)
Gary

Thanks.

I manually dry mounted before, but 34gr could be a challenge.  Craft techniques are indeed a skill.
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