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Author Topic: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom  (Read 46641 times)

Alan Smallbone

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2015, 01:01:41 pm »

Lemondixon, thanks for the write ups. I too was not pleased with the way GG comes across in his videos and the ones he did for the Fuji X forum, it really put me off from looking further. Which is a shame as I would like to see how it works and if it works well it would be worth it to me. I will download your sample images and take a look. I might be interested in seeing what kind of comparisons we can do. Thanks for making the time for the lengthy post and for posting the samples. Your time was not wasted but I still have this feeling of it is just "magic" from the description but that is probably from the bias that has formed from watching is "advertising" intros which really do not explain anything. So again thanks for being patient with us.

Alan
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 01:14:51 pm by Alan Smallbone »
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Alan Smallbone
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rdonson

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2015, 04:39:08 pm »

Thank you, Lemondixon for sharing.  I truly appreciate it.

I've kept an open mind and I've been going through the free "FOCUS" videos on his website to understand where he's coming from.  It all seems to be a rational approach if you take the time to listen and learn where he's coming from.

For those interested in learning more about his approach without paying anything start with his first video from "FOCUS" on RAW (01)
http://www.guygowan.com/focus/video.php?&userid=170

I haven't bought anything from him yet but I'm learning.  I too have a long history in the B&W darkroom with a smattering of color.  I'm never going back to film as I'm addicted to what I can do with digital cameras and digital processing.  15 years of digital is now ingrained in me.
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Ron

Lemondixon

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2015, 04:52:59 pm »

Not sure which film simulations you meant Armand (VSCO or other Presets made for Lightroom?) but either way there is a really simple solution that doesn't involve having to use the older LR3 versions of VSCO Film. I see you found an answer, but just so everyone else understands:

GGowan recommends using Process Ver. 2010, so that LR doesn't apply 'auto-recovery' on your images (which actually does make a huge difference on some images). However, this is only about extracting the maximum info/detail out of your images during the RAW conversion process for export to Photoshop - What you do with it after you've "processed" it using GG's techniques is up to you.

So for those that are your 'final' images for printing etc (not everything in your library):

1. In LR switch back to Process V. 2010, switch off sharpening, noise reduction etc and then adjust Exposure until clipping gone;
2. Export image to Photoshop and process using GG's method for de-moire, auto-levels, range expansion, contrast and sharpening;
3. Flatten image and close, opening back in LR5 (usually as a TIFF or PSD);
4. If you then wanted to apply any film emulation effects (VSCO or other), you can do this on your processed TIFF/PSD using whichever Process Version you like, as by this point you've already got all the highlights and shadow areas and sharpness to where you want it

One point to bear in mind however - For some of the more extreme Film Effects which can really close down the shadow areas or highlights with heavy contrast, you may want to go easy with adding contrast at the GG processing stage, and leave the image slightly flatter than normal so that you've still got plenty of room to play with when applying the film effect
« Last Edit: March 23, 2015, 04:56:56 pm by Lemondixon »
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AS1

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2015, 11:29:37 pm »

These comparisons are stunning!
The (e) file has an incredible amount of detail and beautiful tones.

Thanks for doing this comparison so thoroughly. I know it's a lot of work, but, like you, I'm fascinated to directly compare these variables in photography and really get a grip on the best technical approach.
Very interesting.
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smahn

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2015, 02:22:56 am »

I don't have a Fuji, was just passing thru, but thought I'd give RawTherapee a try against Lemondixon's samples. I think it compares quite well from a detail/resolution perspective, and I'm quite new to RT, so I'm sure those more experienced could do better.

It's the 2nd image from the left in the top row.
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smahn

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2015, 02:05:37 pm »

BTW, something is really wrong with lemondixon's raw conversions (see his download file and my screen grab above). No one should have to suffer with such soft/blurry results.

On the screen grab below, top left is Raw Therapee, bottom left is Lightroom, bottom right is PhotoNinja. The other three are the "Holy Grail" GG results.

And again, this is my first time processing any Fuji file and I'm a newb to Raw Therapee and PhotoNinja. Further practice should yield better results.

My point is, while those GG results are "fine" as is, they're nowhere close to what I think one could achieve with better staring points out of their raw converters before going to PS.

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dmward

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2015, 11:31:09 pm »

I think its useful to point out that G Gowan's base premise for sharpening is that contrast is required to create three dimensional images.
His approach is based on using channels as the key element for finding the areas in an image for a specific sharpening formulation.

He also uses blending modes to apply one sharpening formulation for highlights and another for shadows.

If one is willing to tune out his presentation style and focus on the technical approach there is much useful information.

Is it required for every image, no. Is it a useful technique, yes.

He is convinced that Photoshop, because it has channels, is much more capable than any raw converter, for getting maximum sharpness, shadow detail, dynamic range and tonality from an image.
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jed best

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #47 on: June 10, 2015, 09:24:41 am »

As some have mentioned not liking the color that is produced by Iridient Developer, I wonder if anyone has had any experience with XT-1 color after using the Fuji camera profiles that come with Lightroom or that were created by the Xrite Color Passport. It is my understanding that Iridient can import those profiles and use them instead of the default profile.

Thanks

Jed
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armand

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #48 on: June 10, 2015, 10:53:39 am »

Provia it's very close to the real thing, I posted a comparison here some time ago. It deals very well with the more difficult red to magenta spectrum. It's not identical to the in-camera but very close.
Velvia it's a little farther away but still very close, not as good as Provia though. Don't use much Velvia to be more specific.

Chris Kern

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #49 on: June 10, 2015, 11:54:12 am »

. . . I wonder if anyone has had any experience with XT-1 color after using the Fuji camera profiles that come with Lightroom . . .

I haven't any experience with the in-camera emulations since I don't shoot JPEGs, but at least on casual inspection the Velvia profile looks very much like Velvia 100 film to me.

Chris Kern

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2015, 04:17:07 am »

I was pleased to see the following item in the June Lightroom CC release notes:

Quote

It's helpful finally to have an authoritative statement that Adobe is working with Fujifilm on this.

Paul2660

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2015, 07:10:27 am »

I was pleased to see the following item in the June Lightroom CC release notes:

It's helpful finally to have an authoritative statement that Adobe is working with Fujifilm on this.

Thanks for the information.  I had noticed a difference, or what I felt was a difference in LR CC conversions on XT-1 files.  I do hope they work on the fine details rendering, that would be great. 

Paul Caldwell
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Paul Caldwell
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AFairley

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2015, 12:27:06 pm »

Thanks for the information.  I had noticed a difference, or what I felt was a difference in LR CC conversions on XT-1 files.  I do hope they work on the fine details rendering, that would be great.  

Paul Caldwell


One person on the Fuji rumors forum is reporting that the bug fix has fixed the high contrast edge problem (my bugaboo), which if true for all Fuji images would be good news indeed.

UPDATE:

A recent post on Fuji Rumors with 100% crops shows noticeable reduction in haloing at black branch against blue sky, so that's promising.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 11:49:58 am by AFairley »
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Paul2660

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2015, 07:40:25 am »

That alone would be huge.

Glad to see Adobe and Fuji working on this together.

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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armand

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #54 on: February 16, 2018, 11:43:27 pm »

Took me a while to find this thread.

For a long time now my default x-trans sharpening was starting with detail 100%.
These days I realized I get more natural results if I keep the detail around 60% and work with the amount more. I'm not sure if it's related to the new LR or the new x-trans or I was doing wrong all along. There is a point for higher detail and convoluted sharpening but rarely.

armand

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2018, 11:58:49 pm »

As I went back to reading this article previously linked here: http://petebridgwood.com/wp/2014/10/x-trans-sharpening/  I noticed there is a small addendum stating the details works better at 60 for the 24MP x-trans. I guess great minds think alike  :D

rdonson

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #56 on: February 17, 2018, 08:39:29 am »

When I first got the X-T2 I couldn’t get reasonable sharpening from Lightroom like I could with my X-T1 and Peter Bridgewood’s suggestions.

I started using Iridient Developer and then Iridient X-Transformer.  The demosaicing seemed far superior to Lightroom. I still use Lightroom but Iridient is now part of my workflow.  Others have said that Lightroom has improved in the last 2 years but I still think I get superior results with Iridient.
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Ron

armand

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2019, 02:36:36 pm »

While playing with the new enhance details in LR I realized the processing in LR must have gotten significnatly better at some point because I don't see much artifacts these days, I have to look for them to occasionally find them.

For raf files in particularly the enhance details occasionally, as in less then 50%, will increase the apparent resolution but on some of those it also comes with increased saturation and I wonder if the better separation between different colors (sec to increased saturation) accounts for some of that perceived sharpness. I didn't run any objective tests for sharpness nor do I intent too.

I will start posting some comparison crops from time to time, maybe we'll figure it when it's worth trying because it does come at the cost of much bigger files.
In this one the old artifact is apparent at 100%, but I doubt it will see it in a normal to large print. You can see the difference a little better at 200%, enhance on the left. If I didn't have the comparison probably I wouldn't have been bothered at all by the original appearance. Printscreens attached.

Paul2660

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2019, 08:02:24 am »

I would agree, the "enhance details" option on the X-T2 and X-H1 files is most impressive.  The base raw conversion I feel shows a bit of improvement, still see a bit of wormy or plastic look in the rocks, but when you run the enhance details on the file most of this goes away.  Worth the extra effort. 

Paul C
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Paul Caldwell
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rdonson

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Re: Sharpening FujiFilm X-Trans Files in Lightroom
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2019, 12:02:28 pm »

I've tried the new "enhance details" but in the end I preferred Iridient X-Transformer for sharpness and detail on images that require it.  Many images of mine do not require that level of detail though.   
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Ron
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