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Author Topic: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?  (Read 21676 times)

BJL

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2014, 05:48:47 pm »

As a long-time member of the "12MP is enough in most situations" faction, your observations do not surprise me. One question is "how close did you get to the screen?  I am guessing that some reviewers were looking from way closer than ome would normally view an image that is almost 2 feet wide, while you were viewing in a more normal fashion.

One comment though: web pages are a poor way to measure text handling, since  the fonts used are typically chosen to handle the relatively low resolution of most screens, san serif fonts like Helverica, Ariel and so on. A web page common design rule used to be aiming at a page looking good when dispayed about 900 to 1000 pixels wide.

A tougher test would be a publication-ready page with text in traditional "serif" typographic fonts, intended for printed output. I know that HD resolution of 1080 lines high is not enough to view well a full page of print-quality typeset text; a traditional 300ppi over just the 9 inches of actual text on a US letter sized page would need a screen 2700 pixel high, and with laser printers, 300ppi was fairly good, but 400 or 600 ppi was a noticable improvement.
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alan a

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2014, 10:21:27 pm »

As a long-time member of the "12MP is enough in most situations" faction, your observations do not surprise me. One question is "how close did you get to the screen?  I am guessing that some reviewers were looking from way closer than ome would normally view an image that is almost 2 feet wide, while you were viewing in a more normal fashion.

One comment though: web pages are a poor way to measure text handling, since  the fonts used are typically chosen to handle the relatively low resolution of most screens, san serif fonts like Helverica, Ariel and so on. A web page common design rule used to be aiming at a page looking good when dispayed about 900 to 1000 pixels wide.

In the comparison test at the Apple store, we were standing directly in front of the regular and 5K iMacs.  In order to see the subtle differences, we were looking from a distance of about two feet, and certainly no farther away than three feet.  Since I had already ordered a fully loaded 5K iMac, I was eager to justify my purchase and order.  I looked at the Macs at a closer distance than I do at home.  The store manager was even more eager to point to any differences, and so in one case where a high resolution image appeared to have about the same level of detail on both Macs, she pointed to a slight difference in color, which I ignored, for reasons that we are aware of.  But in that case, in another large MB high resolution image, there simply wasn't much of a difference in terms of the detail.

Regarding the web fonts, I entirely agree.  My point in that case was that one of the Apple sales people had to blow up a web page to a huge degree, probably close to 700% to 1,000%, in order to demonstrate any visible difference.  That was his test to "prove" the difference, not mine.

I didn't look at regular fonts and they certainly might look better on the retina display, just as they do on a Macbook retina display.  Personally, I wouldn't spend $3,000 to $4,000 for that slight improvement in fonts, but an editor who looks at type all day long might do so.  While I type this, I am aware that some smaller web fonts are slightly blurred, especially the smallest fonts.  I assume a $3500 5K iMac could improve on that.

There is no question that there is a difference, and I saw that on a few 300+ MB high resolution images, while I could not see a difference on others.  And I assume the same would be true of fonts.  IMHO it is a subtle difference, but others might disagree and call it a significant enough difference to justify the purchase.  It is subjective and in the end, a personal decision.

It should be noted that others in this thread said that they would wait for future 4K or 5K displays that would perform better than the Apple retina display regarding color rendition, etc.  That might be possible in the not too distant future, in light of the following report on improvements in support for third party 4K displays:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7847/improving-the-state-of-4k-display-support-under-os-x
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 10:41:11 pm by alan a »
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jduncan

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2014, 01:47:03 am »

On the Apple site you can create and save multiple carts without actually placing an order.  So just create a cart for a Mac Pro and one for the 5K iMac and compare.

On another web site the point was made that Apple charges twice as much for RAM as others, so one way to save money is to see if they will sell an iMac with two 8 MB RAM chips, and then if you want to go all the way to 32, add that memory later on your own.  And on the topic of the CPUs, find out if Lightroom will make use of multi-threading.  That question was asked and answered in previous threads, so you might search on that point.

My number one piece of advice is to visit an Apple store and do a comparison of the two iMacs using your own images on two flash drives.  I'd be surprised if you decide to pay $3000 to $4000 for the 5K iMac once you do that comparison.  I cancelled my order for a 5K iMac today based on what I saw in the store. (See my post above that reports on that comparison.)  However, as I noted, it is all subjective.  I don't think it is worth $3000 to $4000 to get such a subtle improvement, but others will conclude that it is worth the money.  It is, as I emphasized, a subjective evaluation and decision.

Regarding the Mac Pro, there have been other threads on that unit, and you should read those.  I'd wait and not buy one today.  There is a new standard for displayport, that was reported on here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8533/vesa-releases-displayport-13-standard-50-more-bandwidth-new-features

It will probably take several years before a new Mac Pro is released that includes that standard, but that is what I'd do -- wait.  As discussed elsewhere, Apple did not release a standalone 5K display because current connection formats don't support it.  I presume the new displayport standard will do just that, but the experts in the forum can better comment on that.

A good review of the Mac Pro can be found here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/

And an update on 4K support is here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7847/improving-the-state-of-4k-display-support-under-os-x

Maybe this will help with the performance questions:
http://www.barefeats.com/imac5k.html
http://www.barefeats.com/imac5k3.html
http://www.barefeats.com/imac5k1.html

Best regards,
J. Duncan
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Ellis Vener

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2014, 10:41:31 am »

How Lloyd Chambers prepares his site for retina capable displays: http://diglloyd.com/retinapref.html
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Ellis Vener

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2014, 01:02:02 pm »

...and Mr. Chambers reports on 5K Retina iMac's color gamut compared to his NEC PA302W: http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2014/20141021_1650-iMac5K-color-gamut.html
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 06:47:34 pm by Ellis Vener »
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BJL

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #45 on: November 01, 2014, 05:23:49 pm »

A quick visit to Apple store last night. Fonts are tiny. Had to put my reading glasses and approach the screen as if I am reading a book. Apple rep, a self-professed geek, couldn't find a way to change that. Didn't have chance to test anything else myself.
There is an option to adjust text sizes (offering about five different levels), at
System Prefences > Displays > radio button for "Scaled".

This is different under 10.10 "Yosemite" than before: now there is a choice specifically for text size, where before there was just a choice of overall pixel count.

Maybe your local Apple Genii missed the "Yosemite" briefing!
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alan a

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2014, 06:19:12 pm »

Correct.  That option now exists for other 4K displays, and is covered in the link I previously provided.  

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7847/improving-the-state-of-4k-display-support-under-os-x

However, the Apple OS operating system does not increase the size of all fonts, so it is very possible that Slobodan was looking at a font that can NOT be increased in size, unless everything is enlarged through a change in the resolution of the entire screen.  IMHO this is a major deficiency in the Mac OS and one area where Windows is clearly superior.  Windows has offered the option of increasing font sizes on a system-wide basis for over 20 years, at least since Windows 95.  The internet is filled with complaints from older users of Macs, who don't have the sharp eyesight of a teenager, who complain about this problem, and those complaints  have have been ignored by Apple for years.  I once sent in letters to the major Mac magazines asking why they don't complain about this.  Since the Mac magazines are prostitutes for Apple who profit from advertising for Apple products, they did not publish my letters.

I'm hoping that as Apple focuses on better support for 4K displays, they will finally fix this problem.  Ironically, we can increase font size in apps like Safari, but not in the various panels that are part of the Apple system. Scaling up the resolution to read system fonts defeats the purpose of larger resolutions.

On the subject of fonts, I went back to a another Mac store and did the same head-to-head comparison using two flash drives with the same images, to double check my own results.  This time I included a word doc with 8 point fonts.  As expected the really tiny fonts were sharper on a retina display.  On images, my conclusion remained the same, that the difference is very subtle.  The difference is only evident on the finest of details.  In a rainforest shot, taken at very wide angle, so ferns are small, the difference is evident in the individual leaves on a fern.  That is a very small difference IMHO.  Once I magnified the images, on a regular iMac and 5K iMac, that difference disappeared and was not visible, as we'd expect.

So I continue to believe that the subjective difference, that can be seen, is less that 15% to 20%.  I already cancelled my order for a 5K iMac, as my current iMac operates fine with regards to the CPU and amount of Ram.   My plan is to wait a few more years, for a release of a new Mac Pro that includes the new standard for displayport 3, and when all of the issues related to 4K displays have been fully resolved.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 02:27:15 pm by alan a »
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Ellis Vener

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2014, 01:38:59 am »

Another 5K iMac review, part I, from Datacolor's C. David Tobie: http://blog.datacolor.com/c-david-tobie-the-retina-imac-for-photo-and-video-work-part-i/
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budjames

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #48 on: November 08, 2014, 05:59:50 pm »

I just got my iMac 27" 5k i7, 1tb ssd, 32gb ram, and 295 graphics card. Images in Lightroom look great, but the one problem I have at the moment is that my XRite ColorMunki software cannot install on Yosemite. As a result I won't be able to calibrate my monitor until they make compatible software available.

I called XRite tech support and they have no idea when a software upgrade will be released. Bummer!

Bud
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Bud James
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2014, 06:58:13 pm »

... my XRite ColorMunki software cannot install on Yosemite. As a result I won't be able to calibrate my monitor...

According to X-Rite:

Quote
X-Rite customers that upgrade to the new Apple OS 10.10 Yosemite should experience no difficulties with the following exceptions noted below:

Colormunki Display is listed, but Photo and Design are not. So, if your version is Display, you should be able to profile your monitor.

They say the following about Photo (originally scheduled for Nov 3rd release):

Quote
NOV 3rd UPDATE: Yosemite compatible software release for ColorMunki Photo is unexpectedly delayed. Our development team has run into an unforeseen coding issue. However, they are actively working to resolve this as quickly as possible. If you would like to be notified when it is ready, please complete the form to the top-right of the page.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2014, 07:01:07 pm by Slobodan Blagojevic »
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deejjjaaaa

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2014, 08:06:40 pm »

As a result I won't be able to calibrate my monitor until they make compatible software available.
how about alternatives - free argyll with free dispcalGUI frontend or even a trial (enough to last you for a while) version of BasicColor display ?
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Ellis Vener

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Re: New 27-inch 5K "Retina" display iMac coming in October 2014?
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2014, 10:39:53 am »

According to Xrite the ColorMunki software has now been updated and is compatible with Yosemite (OS X 10.10.1) http://xritephoto.com/custom_page.aspx?pageID=540
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