Nikon D3x vs. Nikon D810

[John Koerner]

Jack,
I would buy a 7DII if I were you. It is obviously the body you had been waiting for.

But you're not me

I am sorry if my last post offended you, but the colors in your images are quite ordinary. Nothing spectacular about them IMO.

I can only be perfectly honest when I give opinions.
It was honestly hard for me to tell what kind of color rendition your D810 had, based on the subject matter you chose (as well as the lighting conditions).

I know my 7D isn't as good a camera as a D810, but the colors in my images "pop" more than yours, precisely because of the subject matter + lighting conditions.


Similarly, THESE colors (with the same camera you have) truly blow me away: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaydaley

Do you honestly think there is any comparison in "wow" between the colors of your images and these above?

It's not the camera; it's not even the photographer.
It's the subject matter + light conditions.

I don't know you but I have read many of your posts recently. What gets conveyed in a totally unmistakable way is that a Nikon body will never satisfy you fully because... it isn't a Canon.

You could actually repeat that sentence to yourself in the mirror ... substitute the word "Nikon" for Canon

There is nothing wrong with that but you would IMHO save time and money by just acknowledging this and acting accordingly.
Cheers,
Bernard

This is an absurd post, Bernard, and again I am sorry if you got offended.

If you actually did read my latest posts you'd see I am seriously considering the D810.

One poster merely said the D800 had ho-hum colors, compared to the D3x, which is definitely a deal-breaker for me.
Another poster said the D810 had superior color rendition than the D800, which is good news.

You posted your Photostream as "proof" of the color rendition in the D810, but I am sorry, my honest opinion is there is nothing "spectacular" about the color of any of your nature shots.
That is merely my opinion, and I am sorry if this offends you, but that is just the way it is. This isn't a slam on you personally at all. The colors in your shots are simply quite ordinary IMO.

However, the colors in Jay Daley's shots are for the most part fabulous IMO.
It's all about the subject matter and light.

You can take a photo of the grass and trees at 12 noon ... and then you can take a photograph of the sunset at 6:30 pm ... with the same camera ... and one photo will simply come out ho-hum, while the other one spectacular.

Same camera, same photographer ...
Different colors, different light, different "wow" factor ...

Have a good one,

Jack

[BernardLanguillier]

Jack,

I am not offended the least bit by your opinion. Make no mistake, I would tell you clearly if I were.

My goal in posting this link wasn't to impress you or to convince you that the D810 is right fir you, but simply to provide you with one data point.

Getting impressive colors isn't something I am shooting for in these images, it would be easy to increase saturation if that were the objective.

My opinion remains, you should buy the 7DII and this is a sincere first degree statment devoid of any cynical content. If you prove me wrong and buy a D810 I will gladly provide you with advice on usage. But I am 99% sure that you will not buy a D810 or won't be fully satisfied even if you do.

As far as I am concerned, I'll buy the first Canon body offering one stop additional DR over its Nikon equivalent. I know what I need and the brand on the box is irrelevant to me.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Manoli]

Different colors, different light, different "wow" factor ...

https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2012/02/the-myth-of-universal-colour/

[melchiorpavone]

But you're not me

I am sorry if my last post offended you, but the colors in your images are quite ordinary. Nothing spectacular about them IMO.

You posted your Photostream as "proof" of the color rendition in the D810, but I am sorry, my honest opinion is there is nothing "spectacular" about the color of any of your nature shots.
That is merely my opinion, and I am sorry if this offends you, but that is just the way it is. This isn't a slam on you personally at all. The colors in your shots are simply quite ordinary IMO.

However, the colors in Jay Daley's shots are for the most part fabulous IMO.
It's all about the subject matter and light.

You can take a photo of the grass and trees at 12 noon ... and then you can take a photograph of the sunset at 6:30 pm ... with the same camera ... and one photo will simply come out ho-hum, while the other one spectacular.

Same camera, same photographer ...
Different colors, different light, different "wow" factor ...

Have a good one,

Jack

I saw a comparison of images taken by the owner of a camera shop with the Nikon 800 and 810, side by side, and they were very similar.

[Pope]

I always saw the D800e as a D3x replacement rather then a D700...the only thing is to get rid of the pop up flash so I could work better with the PC-e lenses!

[synn]

Hardware / cfa colours relate to OOC camera jpegs as they're embedded in the file. Both Lr and C1 use their own profiles for RAW's and there are other providers of custom profiles such as huelight. If Lr and/or C1 profiles aren't suitable (?) - it's a matter of 'roll your own' ...

I wasn't talking about OOC colors or even standard profiles. I had previously mentioned in the forum that the D800 delivers its best color output when the IQ 250 profile is used in C1P (With a few tweaks here and there). It still doesn't look all that impressive to me, at least for portraiture. D3X wins any day for color in my books.

As a matter of fact, I still love the color rendering of my long dead D70s. If only it wasn't a measly 6MP...



Lastly, take my opinion as very biased. My serious work gets done on a Leaf Credo and it's very hard to objectively judge 35mm colors once you work with a Leaf back.

[BernardLanguillier]

Lastly, take my opinion as very biased. My serious work gets done on a Leaf Credo and it's very hard to objectively judge 35mm colors once you work with a Leaf back.

Yep, I feel for you, it isn't easy to deal with the everyday world when you get used to that level of excellence.

Now I was glad to read your comment about leaf's new Sony CMOS sensor based back. It seems to get a good rating from you in terms of colors. This means it isn't a CMOS issue, nor a Sony sensor issue.

So, who knows, perhaps Nikon's engineers may be able to overcome their color incompetence some day using the same Sony sensors. This is good news for the millions unable to afford a Leaf who currently live in a near colorless world.

Cheers,
Bernard

[synn]

Canikon engineers will never prioritize color as long as they are chasing umptigazillion ISOs. Gotta make those moonlit shots, don't we?

[BernardLanguillier]

Canikon engineers will never prioritize color as long as they are chasing umptigazillion ISOs. Gotta make those moonlit shots, don't we?

Argh... we are doomed.

I'll probably stop photography next week, what would be the point...

Cheers,
Bernard

[kers]

I always saw the D800e as a D3x replacement rather then a D700...the only thing is to get rid of the pop up flash so I could work better with the PC-e lenses!

You only have a slight problem with the 24PCE lens... one position...

[John Koerner]

https://www.onlandscape.co.uk/2012/02/the-myth-of-universal-colour/

Interesting ... thanks.

[John Koerner]

Jack,

I am not offended the least bit by your opinion. Make no mistake, I would tell you clearly if I were.

My goal in posting this link wasn't to impress you or to convince you that the D810 is right fir you, but simply to provide you with one data point.

Getting impressive colors isn't something I am shooting for in these images, it would be easy to increase saturation if that were the objective.

My opinion remains, you should buy the 7DII and this is a sincere first degree statment devoid of any cynical content. If you prove me wrong and buy a D810 I will gladly provide you with advice on usage. But I am 99% sure that you will not buy a D810 or won't be fully satisfied even if you do.

As far as I am concerned, I'll buy the first Canon body offering one stop additional DR over its Nikon equivalent. I know what I need and the brand on the box is irrelevant to me.

Cheers,
Bernard

Honestly, Bernard, you should worry about your own hoola-hoop.

What I decide to buy should be of no consequence to you.

I don't claim to understand it all, but how a camera renders color appears to vary, some being more pleasing, some less pleasing ...

Of course this is all subjective, based on the user, or (shall I say) viewer.

Having awesome resolution is a good thing, but if a camera renders colors in a flat or displeasing fashion, this would be a bad thing.

I won't be making a decision until December, so we'll see what happens.

Have a good one,

Jack

[Manoli]

I wasn't talking about OOC colors or even standard profiles. I had previously mentioned in the forum that the D800 delivers its best color output when the IQ 250 profile is used in C1P (With a few tweaks here and there).

Which is exactly the point I made - final colour rendering is mostly dependent on profile and post.

Now the Nikon's (D800) do have a reputation for being heavy handed in the reds, and this is probably one of the reasons they have such a good reputation as a B&W cam. Straight out. Bottom line is you need to differentiate between accurate colour and pleasing colour. The latter, your interest, is, IMO, more relevant in portraiture. The 'wow-colour' shots the OP has linked to above have little to do with OOC colours, more with post.

It still doesn't look all that impressive to me, at least for portraiture. D3X wins any day for color in my books. [...] Lastly, take my opinion as very biased. My serious work gets done on a Leaf Credo and it's very hard to objectively judge 35mm colors once you work with a Leaf back.

Skin tones though, are a whole different ball game - now we're not just discussing colours and we're back into Leaf v Nikon (or MF v FF, if you prefer) and CCD v CMOS. Perhaps another time ... (then again, perhaps not).

I've limited colour experience, but rather than perpetuate inaccuracies and myths, strongly suggest a quick PM to either Edmund or Bart who have a far greater understanding and expertise than most of us.  If they're reading this, they might even give us the benefit of their input of  their own accord.  Nothing wrong with biased opinions, we all have them, just as long as they're recognised as such.


Edit:
Remembered this post which gives an indication of how a simple WB adjustment to a colour checker passport reference can neutralise colours and, in this case, skin tones.
" .. here are 3 images from the GX7, 645D, and A7R with the white balance set to the same numeric value. The difference between how the sensor picks up the colours is different, especially on the skin tones. "

[dwswager]

I have test shot both, but have not owned either.

For me, the D810 without question, but then I don't need the absolute durability of the D3x.  I would be swayed by the dynamic range, pixel count and noise control at higher ISO.

There is a objective process to make these choices.  List all the your "Must Haves" and all your "Wants"  The "Must Haves" can be reflected in the wants as well.  For example, you might have a "Must Have" of 12MP but then also have a "Want" of "Highest MP Possible".  Then rank your "Wants" in importance using a numerical scale...say 1-5 with 1 being low priority and 5 being higher.  Any camera that doesn't meet the "Must Haves" is dropped from consideration.  The remainders you just add up the wants values and take the highest scoring body!  You might actually find that one of these don't even make the cut on your Must Haves!

[synn]

@Manoli: I don't want to hijack another person's thread, but c'mon mate. It's kinda naive to imagine that other folk are not aware of color profiling, color checker passport and so on. I use them both in my workflow. Everything is calibrated from start to end. My opinions on cameras are based on how they perform under that consistent workflow, which has been developed after reading up and talking to very accomplished people in the industry. and it's a fact that some cameras do some things better than the others. Color rendition being one of them.

I have no interest in getting into another technological war about CCD vs CMOS and whatnot. (Last time I checked, the D3X and D800 were both CMOS btw). My whole point, after shooting both cameras is that the D3X delivers more pleasing colors out of the box than the D800. You can tweak them both to be whatever, but you'll get there faster with the D3X. I am not sure if you own/ owned either/ both of these cameras, but I highly recommend that you try it out within your workflow and verify this for yourself.

The D800 is a fantastic camera. It has helped me make images that were simply not possible (At least, at that price point) in the past. It does a lot of things well, just that color rendition isn't one of them. Not within the 35mm realm, not even within the Nikon portfolio, IMO.

Please accept this extremely subjective (As mentioned clearly in the disclaimer) and move on.

[NancyP]

Yes, the Sigma Foveon Merrill sensors have lots of good features, but color rendition can be a bit idiosyncratic in some conditions. Fun cameras to shoot with, as long as you can stay at ISO 100-400. The post-processing, well, that is less fun, starting with the somewhat unstable Sigma Photo Pro RAW converter, which crashes every third or fourth session.

I consider that we are fortunate to have all the choices that we have.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

Really nice picture!

Best regards
Erik

I wasn't talking about OOC colors or even standard profiles. I had previously mentioned in the forum that the D800 delivers its best color output when the IQ 250 profile is used in C1P (With a few tweaks here and there). It still doesn't look all that impressive to me, at least for portraiture. D3X wins any day for color in my books.

As a matter of fact, I still love the color rendering of my long dead D70s. If only it wasn't a measly 6MP...



Lastly, take my opinion as very biased. My serious work gets done on a Leaf Credo and it's very hard to objectively judge 35mm colors once you work with a Leaf back.