Next Generation

[Dr. Gary]

What if Canon comes out with (I have heard reliable rumors) a 22MP SLR at the PMMA show in February. Does anyone see the advantage of going with it over the 1DS MK II (Mine was just burgled recently and my insurance will only cover $5000 toward the body. I may wait until Febuary and use my 20D until then).

Dr. Gary

[jani]

It's hard to tell whether there will be any interesting advantages apart from increased pixel count, as long as there are no other details, no tests, or any other solid information for that matter.

My stance is:

If you can wait, wait.

[DiaAzul]

I suspect your wait may be until May/June before the camera actually ends up in your hands, so you may be waiting for some considerable time. With USD5,000 you could trawl around the second hand market, pick up a 5D or just go with a new 1DsII and swallow the upgrade cost.

I would suggest it is a little early to second guess Canon's next release, though rolling in some of the 'n' enhancements into the existing design would perhaps be a logical minimum for a PMA release (though perhaps that is all they will change).

[BernardLanguillier]

In my view, the main value could be 16 bits support together with really extended DR.

Nobody knows today whether they will deliver this or not...

Regards,
Bernard

[Ben Rubinstein]

as said: keep in mind how long it was before the 1Ds mkII was readily available.

[lester_wareham]

What if Canon comes out with (I have heard reliable rumors) a 22MP SLR at the PMMA show in February. Does anyone see the advantage of going with it over the 1DS MK II (Mine was just burgled recently and my insurance will only cover $5000 toward the body. I may wait until Febuary and use my 20D until then).

Dr. Gary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=51373\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Reduced need for capture sharpening as there will be less MTF roll-off from the anti-alias filter (assuming this is well matched to the sensors sample interval).

[Slough]

What if Canon comes out with (I have heard reliable rumors) a 22MP SLR at the PMMA show in February. Does anyone see the advantage of going with it over the 1DS MK II (Mine was just burgled recently and my insurance will only cover $5000 toward the body. I may wait until Febuary and use my 20D until then).

Dr. Gary
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=51373\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It will allow Canon owners to examine in even greater detail the modest edge performance of their wide angle lenses.

Seriously, I think Lester is right.

It might allow a greater degree of cropping, so that a 400mm lens can perform like a 600mm one on a less dense sensor. It's obviously for pros and rich hobbyists.

Leif

[BJL]

It might allow a greater degree of cropping, so that a 400mm lens can perform like a 600mm one on a less dense sensor.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=52026\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Indeed, when you have to crop because you cannot get close enough to your subject, smaller pixels and thus higher sensor resolution in lp/mm are advantage: in both telephoto and macro work.

I have read few or no complaints about Canon lenses limiting resolution when used with the 6.4 micron pixels and "8MP crop" of the 20D and even Nikon's 5.5 micron pixels seem to hold up fine with DX format, so a 35mm format sensor with the same 6.4 or even 5.5 micron pixel pitch could give 20 to 30MP and still "pixel sharp" at least on crops, to extend the magnification of your longest telephoto lenses, and macro lenses too.  It is probably not a disaster if over the full frame, some choices of lenses and apertures limit resolution near the edges of the frame to effectively "only" a bit less than 20MP?

For me the big win might be with close-ups (macro), when I am up against minimum focusing distance, or when then need for adequate working distance means I cannot get as close as I want to a subject.

[gmitchel]

Indeed, when you have to crop because you cannot get close enough to your subject, smaller pixels and thus higher sensor resolution in lp/mm are advantage: in both telephoto and macro work.

I have read few or no complaints about Canon lenses limiting resolution when used with the 6.4 micron pixels and "8MP crop" of the 20D and even Nikon's 5.5 micron pixels seem to hold up fine with DX format, so a 35mm format sensor with the same 6.4 or even 5.5 micron pixel pitch could give 20 to 30MP and still "pixel sharp" at least on crops, to extend the magnification of your longest telephoto lenses, and macro lenses too.  It is probably not a disaster if over the full frame, some choices of lenses and apertures limit resolution near the edges of the frame to effectively "only" a bit less than 20MP?

For me the big win might be with close-ups (macro), when I am up against minimum focusing distance, or when then need for adequate working distance means I cannot get as close as I want to a subject.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=52032\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The 1Ds MkII is a joy for macro photography.

When I bought mine, I thought I would use the 20D for macro because of the narrower FOV from the cropping factor.

I use the 1Ds MkII and crop the image.

The 20D simply cannot compete against the 1Ds MkII with the Canon 180mm "L" Macro lens. My favorite piece of glass!

Cheers,

Mitch

[lester_wareham]

The 1Ds MkII is a joy for macro photography.

When I bought mine, I thought I would use the 20D for macro because of the narrower FOV from the cropping factor.

I use the 1Ds MkII and crop the image.

The 20D simply cannot compete against the 1Ds MkII with the Canon 180mm "L" Macro lens. My favorite piece of glass!

Cheers,

Mitch
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=52050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

It shouldn't make any difference but I find it is easier to get DOF with macro if I shoot at lower magnification and crop.  Not sure if this a real effect of just subjective.

[BJL]

I use the 1Ds MkII and crop the image.

The 20D simply cannot compete against the 1Ds MkII with the Canon 180mm "L" Macro lens. My favorite piece of glass!
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=52050\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I was comparing the 1DsMkII to a rumored higher resolution 1DsMkIII, not the 20D. If you wish instead to compare amongst existing DSLRs, the current DSLR leaders for macro resolution, cropping and enlargment potential are the Nikon D2X (5.5 micron pixel spacing), Olympus E-300 and E-500 (5.4 microns) and the new Nikon D200 (6 microns). Nikon and Olympus both have nice 1:1 macro lens options for those cameras to match the Canon 180mm 1:1 macro lens you mention.

But since you compared to the 20D, how does it really compare to the 1DsMkII when both are used with that same lens? Of course the 1DsMkII sometimes has the advantage of being able to put more pixels on the subject than the 20D sensor has, but only if the desired subject field size is big enough: about 18x27mm and up with that 1:1 macro lens. When the subject is smaller than that, the 20D will give more pixels on the subject than the 1DsMkII with cropping. For example, if the desired framing of the subject is the size of the 20D frame (15x22.5mm), the 20D with 1:1 macro lens gives all its 8.5MP on the subject, while the 1DsMkII crop gives about 6.6MP. The 20D seems to compete well in that situation.

[realtrance]

I wonder whether it might be possible to adjust the amount of anti-aliasing the anti-aliasing filter applies in-camera, or whether that's a hard factor determined by the type of physical filter design placed in front of the CMOS sensor?

(just enjoying the pure speculation aspect of this, btw....)

[dwdallam]

I wonder whether it might be possible to adjust the amount of anti-aliasing the anti-aliasing filter applies in-camera, or whether that's a hard factor determined by the type of physical filter design placed in front of the CMOS sensor?

(just enjoying the pure speculation aspect of this, btw....)
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55148\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

My friend wants to upgrade to the 5D from the 20D for the extra pixels for I believe two sound reasons: (1) You get more flexibility with cropping when you need to salvage and picture and (2) he can print 20 x 30 with better detail, which he currently does pretty well using the 8.2 MP 20D.

I like both the ideas. Costco will print--mail in only--20 x 30 for 10.00 US each. And having that extra pixel count for cropping is indeed nice.

My question is, do you think Canon will come out with a 20D that has 13 or more MPs? Or do you think they are going to phase out the 20D "type" camera and mass produce full frames like the 5D? You would have a larger gap between "prosumer" and Pro type categories, but after markets of scale begins to take effect, that 5D type category could get down to the high teens (1950.00 US) I suppose. Still, that's a big jump from the Rebel XT line.

I'd be happy with a 13 MP 20D. I can live with the crop.

[BJL]

My question is, do you think Canon will come out with a 20D that has 13 or more MPs?

Or do you think they are going to phase out the 20D "type" camera and mass produce full frames like the 5D?
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55168\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

The answer to the second question is clearly "no, not this year, if ever": the huge price gap between the 5D and 20D is not going to be eliminated quickly (and maybe not even slowly.)

So Canon will almost certainly release a new EF-S DSLR with double digit megapixel count. My guess would be a bit less than the 12.7MP of the 5D, but the resolution gap between 10MP and 12.7MP is minor.

[macgyver]

With a price point similar to the 20D I hope?

[jani]

With a price point similar to the 20D I hope?

Without having any inside information, I'd say "of course, but cheaper, just like the 20D was cheaper than the 10D".

A good hint is the recent (November/December) near 20% price drop of the 20D in retail, at least here in Norway.

[francois]

....A good hint is the recent (November/December) near 20% price drop of the 20D in retail, at least here in Norway.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55246\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Here, a cashback rebate for the 20D has been running for a couple of month. Usually, it's a sign that the new model is in the starting blocks.

[dwdallam]

Here, a cashback rebate for the 20D has been running for a couple of month. Usually, it's a sign that the new model is in the starting blocks.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55266\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Looks like I better fire up Ebay. If Canon comes out with a 20D type camera with 10+ MPs, I'll bite. That's a 20% increase in pixel count.

[drew]

I think if Canon brings out a new 1Ds, it will be like the n version of the 1D mark II with a larger LCD monitor on the back. I do not think we will see a higher resolution 1Ds (a mark III) for at least another year. There simply is no need for a higher resolution camera right now as Canon continues to be the acknowledged market leader, even if the D2X comes close.

[BJL]

I do not think we will see a higher resolution 1Ds (a mark III) for at least another year.
[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=55356\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I can see several reasons why an increase in "1DsMkIII" pixel count is possible this year: competing with the new, less expensive MF options like the 22MP Mamiya ZD; opening the currently small gap from the 12.5MP of the D2X; because it will compel some 1Ds owners to upgrade to stay "state of the art", and just "because they can". After all, they upgraded the 1Ds series from 11MP to 16.5MP with no particular pressure from competitors.