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Author Topic: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.  (Read 43964 times)

melchiorpavone

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #160 on: September 20, 2014, 09:00:46 pm »

How could anything be simpler to use than a D810 in Auto ISO (inverse of shutter speed + 1 stop faster), A mode set at F2.0 in highlight priority mode, AF Auto mode?

The only button you need to touch is the shutter release to get perfectly exposed for the face of your subject, focused on the eye images that you can print at A1.

And if ever you need to change something on the fly, you have a button available just under your finder tip to do that. Basically everybody, from Pentax to Leica, has copied the 2 wheels thumb/index control paradigm invented by Nikon with the F5/F100.

I am sorry, I just don't get your comment.

Clean design was invented by Japanese, just visit a Zen temple and you'll understand why. Steve Jobs was influenced by Sony more than by anything else in his life.

So Japanese can do clean design better than anybody else when that is the right thing to do. It simply isn't for cameras from a physical standpoint, but they have managed to supplement this by very smart automation that turn the most advanced DSLR ever in the simplest of the point and shoot.

Best of both world if there ever was one.

Have you been in Tesla S? I love the car and the company but their flat screen based center column is IMHO a disaster from an argonomic standpoint. Not everything is a smartphone.

Cheers,
Bernard


Don't need autofocus
Don't need auto film advance
Don't need auto-exposure

It's all garbage.

Less is more.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #161 on: September 20, 2014, 09:07:45 pm »

Don't need autofocus
Don't need auto film advance
Don't need auto-exposure

It's all garbage.

It depends on the situation.

There are many cases where these automation are precious help to take a great picture instead of an average one.

Cheers,
Bernard

melchiorpavone

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #162 on: September 20, 2014, 09:09:59 pm »

It depends on the situation.

There are many cases where these automation are precious help to take a great picture instead of an average one.

Cheers,
Bernard

Then why are my photos always better than those taken with all that automatic crap?
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #163 on: September 20, 2014, 09:25:02 pm »

Then why are my photos always better than those taken with all that automatic crap?

Your ego? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

telyt

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #164 on: September 20, 2014, 09:33:17 pm »

Japocrap turns my stomach...

I won't go so far as to paint all cameras originating in Japan with the same brush.  I'll evaluate each camera model on its own merits.
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melchiorpavone

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #165 on: September 20, 2014, 09:41:18 pm »

Your ego? ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Look at the photos taken by wildlight guy, it isn't ego, my lad.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #166 on: September 20, 2014, 10:01:09 pm »

Look at the photos taken by wildlight guy, it isn't ego, my lad.

I was talking to you! ;)

I am not denying that MF is a useful tool nor that it is the most suitable to some applications. I use my Otus a lot on the D810. 100% of my landscape work has been shot on MF Zeiss and Leica lenses for 4-5 years, mostly in full manual mode. Some baby girl portraits too recently.
 


But this is not what we were discussing initially.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 01:54:34 am by BernardLanguillier »
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melchiorpavone

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #167 on: September 20, 2014, 10:25:34 pm »

I was talking to you! ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Concentration on essentials.
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Ed B

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #168 on: September 21, 2014, 12:02:09 am »



And if ever you need to change something on the fly, you have a button available just under your finder tip to do that. Basically everybody, from Pentax to Leica, has copied the 2 wheels thumb/index control paradigm invented by Nikon with the F5/F100.



If I'm not mistaken, those wheels were introduced by Canon on the EOS 1, no?
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Osprey

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #169 on: September 21, 2014, 12:26:54 am »

Yep! In making it "easy" the Japanese make it hard. Same in cameras and cars. A million bells and whistles vs control and lean designs.

I drive a 2001 VW Passat V6 stick. Same design philosophy as the Leicaflex.

Talk about invalidating a whole argument.  A VW product shouldn't be used as an example of a quality (ok, ok, at least a reliable) product to anyone residing in the US or Canada for the last 30 years.  The Germans may be good at a quality car feel, but their products just don't last economically. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 12:29:10 am by Osprey »
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Ajoy Roy

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #170 on: September 21, 2014, 01:24:53 am »

Japanese products are engineered with users in mind. They are easier and less expensive to maintain, generally last longer and are so reliable that it is boring. European engineering may be brilliant, but is general expensive and a pain to maintain. If I want the state of art, I would go European, but if I want peace of mind and long life Japanese products are the way to go.
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telyt

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #171 on: September 21, 2014, 01:49:36 am »

Japanese products are engineered with users in mind. They are easier and less expensive to maintain, generally last longer and are so reliable that it is boring. European engineering may be brilliant, but is general expensive and a pain to maintain. If I want the state of art, I would go European, but if I want peace of mind and long life Japanese products are the way to go.

Try changing a water pump in a Scion or a window regulator in a Toyota Matrix.  My VW JSW TDI has been very reliable.
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #172 on: September 21, 2014, 01:56:15 am »

If I'm not mistaken, those wheels were introduced by Canon on the EOS 1, no?

The EOS rear wheel is pretty different from the Nikon one in terms of position/orientation and ergonomics.

It may be a matter of taste, but it doesn't work at all for me and no other manufacturer has made the same decision in terms of placement/orientation.

Cheers,
Bernard

John Koerner

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #173 on: September 21, 2014, 02:19:20 am »

Um, Germans make the best guns, and the best knives, but as someone who sold cars for a few years, "German engineering" didn't create longstanding reliability in their vehicles. They may look better, and they may cost more, but their reliability and re-sale values suck.

Remember a guy who traded a 3-year-old Mercedes SL500 convertible (that he paid $88,000 for), and only got $33,000 on his trade. He basically kissed 55-Grand goodbye after only 3 years of driving. It was immaculate. We didn't even hang onto most of our VWs, choosing instead to dump them onto substandard lots, because of their low reliability rating after 50,000-75,000 miles ...

Best Cars
Best Resale Value

I had 230,000 miles on an old 1999 Nissan Maxima ... and went from L.A. to Miami (and back again) ... nearly 6,000 miles round trip ... and didn't burn even 1 quart of oil.
Have about 247,000 on it now ... and would still trust it more than any German car with half as much mileage.

Good luck getting that kind of life out of a VW ... or trusting it on multiple cross-country trips as a mile-eater :D

Jack

PS: Here's a laughable indictment on the oxymoron of "German reliability"  ;D
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Ajoy Roy

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #174 on: September 21, 2014, 02:30:52 am »

Try changing a water pump in a Scion or a window regulator in a Toyota Matrix.  My VW JSW TDI has been very reliable.

Well in India here is what we have
. Mercedes brakes pads - changed every 20,000km, Toyota or Suzuki after 60,000
. Mercedes service (washing, oil and fluid changes every 15,000km) cost $800, Japanese around a $100
. Spares for European cars/machinery is twice that of Japanese/Korean
. Honda Accord costs nearly a third of Mercedes E class/BMW 5series and lasts three times and even after that sells for more than the Germans after 3 years. At end of 6 years the German cars have practically no value.
. Siemens/Bosch washing machines cost twice as much and last half the time of Samsung/LG

I could go on and on, but what is the point, Western Engineering has taken a back seat in reliability and maintenance, to such an extent that in India people buy Western cars as a status symbol as it takes a really rich man to maintain one, not for their engineering and comfort.

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telyt

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #175 on: September 21, 2014, 09:27:22 am »

Well in India here is what we have
. Mercedes brakes pads - changed every 20,000km, Toyota or Suzuki after 60,000
. Mercedes service (washing, oil and fluid changes every 15,000km) cost $800, Japanese around a $100
. Spares for European cars/machinery is twice that of Japanese/Korean
. Honda Accord costs nearly a third of Mercedes E class/BMW 5series and lasts three times and even after that sells for more than the Germans after 3 years. At end of 6 years the German cars have practically no value.
. Siemens/Bosch washing machines cost twice as much and last half the time of Samsung/LG

I could go on and on, but what is the point, Western Engineering has taken a back seat in reliability and maintenance, to such an extent that in India people buy Western cars as a status symbol as it takes a really rich man to maintain one, not for their engineering and comfort.


I wouldn't touch Mercedes or BMW because they're 'luxury' brands.  Likewise any other 'luxury' car no matter where it was designed, made or where the corporate office is.  'Luxury' is a waste of money IMHO.  It seems silly to compare the cost of 'luxury' brands with the cost of Toyota and Suzuki and use this as an example of the failure of Western engineering.

In the examples I cited above, how do you feel about removing the engine from a car to replace the water pump?  It's a US$1100 repair.  Or US$800 to replace a window regulator?  These were supposed to be inexpensive vehicles, and these repairs were not on old cars, they were less than 3 years old.  These cars, both products of Toyota engineering, were not designed to be repaired.
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allegretto

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #176 on: September 21, 2014, 12:33:56 pm »

Um, Germans make the best guns, and the best knives, but as someone who sold cars for a few years, "German engineering" didn't create longstanding reliability in their vehicles. They may look better, and they may cost more, but their reliability and re-sale values suck.

Remember a guy who traded a 3-year-old Mercedes SL500 convertible (that he paid $88,000 for), and only got $33,000 on his trade. He basically kissed 55-Grand goodbye after only 3 years of driving. It was immaculate. We didn't even hang onto most of our VWs, choosing instead to dump them onto substandard lots, because of their low reliability rating after 50,000-75,000 miles ...


let's say his lease was s36mo 20K miles for ~$1700/mo sound fair?

$61K in lease payments and pray no end of lease fees

Cars, with very very very few exceptions are the poster child for depreciating asset Ask me how I know...
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melchiorpavone

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #177 on: September 21, 2014, 01:53:39 pm »

I wouldn't touch Mercedes or BMW because they're 'luxury' brands.  Likewise any other 'luxury' car no matter where it was designed, made or where the corporate office is.  'Luxury' is a waste of money IMHO.  It seems silly to compare the cost of 'luxury' brands with the cost of Toyota and Suzuki and use this as an example of the failure of Western engineering.

In the examples I cited above, how do you feel about removing the engine from a car to replace the water pump?  It's a US$1100 repair.  Or US$800 to replace a window regulator?  These were supposed to be inexpensive vehicles, and these repairs were not on old cars, they were less than 3 years old.  These cars, both products of Toyota engineering, were not designed to be repaired.

I was talking about the fact that Japanese cameras have always been more 'feature' oriented with lots of bells and whistles, than Leicas, especially. The Leicaflex was infinitely superior in handling and design to the Nikon F or F2.

How many people used the removable prism, ever? Maybe 1 in 10,000. Yet, making the prism and screen removable meant more play and slop in the screen's position, causing loss of focusing accuracy. Ever see sponge at the front of a Leicaflex screen? No, and you won't. Leitz developed a special mechanism that 'brakes' the mirror mechanically, brining it to a slow stop instead of allowing it to bang into sponge.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2014, 02:17:27 pm by melchiorpavone »
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John Koerner

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #178 on: September 21, 2014, 02:40:40 pm »

let's say his lease was s36mo 20K miles for ~$1700/mo sound fair?

$61K in lease payments and pray no end of lease fees

Cars, with very very very few exceptions are the poster child for depreciating asset Ask me how I know...


The two best times to buy a car (a reliable, well-selected car) are either.

1) At the 3-year mark; or

2) After they hit 100,000 miles.

Ask me how I know, lol

Jack
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: The Canon Vs NikonSony and the future sensor tecnology.
« Reply #179 on: September 21, 2014, 03:17:28 pm »

Hi,

In my job I often had rental cars from Volskwagen, Audi and Skoda. I liked the Passat best, Audi less so. I would say Passat, Skoda and Audi last. Audi had to much design and to little functionality.

But, I know that service for all of them is a mess, here in Nyköping, reason enough not to buy any of them.

Best regards
Erik


I wouldn't touch Mercedes or BMW because they're 'luxury' brands.  Likewise any other 'luxury' car no matter where it was designed, made or where the corporate office is.  'Luxury' is a waste of money IMHO.  It seems silly to compare the cost of 'luxury' brands with the cost of Toyota and Suzuki and use this as an example of the failure of Western engineering.

In the examples I cited above, how do you feel about removing the engine from a car to replace the water pump?  It's a US$1100 repair.  Or US$800 to replace a window regulator?  These were supposed to be inexpensive vehicles, and these repairs were not on old cars, they were less than 3 years old.  These cars, both products of Toyota engineering, were not designed to be repaired.
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