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Author Topic: Help with flashbulbs!  (Read 12781 times)

John Nollendorfs

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2014, 07:51:21 pm »

I think melchiorpavone is trying to sound like an expert (authority) without being one. Some of us  "old timers" did actually use flash bulbs and strobes at the same time. Yep, there was x-sync for strobes, and m-sync for bulbs. The m-sync had the 15 milli sec delay to get the bulb to near full brightness for when the focal plane shutter was at it's max opening. Pretty straight forward stuff. Still, by my way of thinking, if you fired the flash bulb with zero delay (x-sync) and used a longer shutter speed to keep the focal plane open, you should get the full power of the flash bulb. Of course you would not have the motion stopping attributes of the strobe. But my, those Press 25 bulbs sure had a lot of power compared the the portable high voltage power pack strobes available back in the '60's! Great for coal mines! ;-) Remember when Tri-x was only ISO 200?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 07:54:12 pm by John Nollendorfs »
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melchiorpavone

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2014, 08:01:37 pm »

I think melchiorpavone is trying to sound like an expert (authority) without being one. Some of us  "old timers" did actually use flash bulbs and strobes at the same time. Yep, there was x-sync for strobes, and m-sync for bulbs. The m-sync had the 15 milli sec delay to get the bulb to near full brightness for when the focal plane shutter was at it's max opening. Pretty straight forward stuff. Still, by my way of thinking, if you fired the flash bulb with zero delay (x-sync) and used a longer shutter speed to keep the focal plane open, you should get the full power of the flash bulb. Of course you would not have the motion stopping attributes of the strobe. But my, those Press 25 bulbs sure had a lot of power compared the the portable high voltage power pack strobes available back in the '60's! Great for coal mines! ;-) Remember when Tri-x was only ISO 200?

No, using a slower shutter speed won't help. You won't capture any more of the flash by doing so.
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John Nollendorfs

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2014, 08:10:58 pm »

Are you talking about using a D-800, or an old film Nikon? If the x-sync shutter triggers the flash at the point that the focal plane is full open, a longer shutter speed will result in the total focal plane being open much longer--to allow for the full 40-60 milli-second burn of the bulb. Are you saying the full shutter does not stay open on a longer exposure? Or are you saying the x-sync causes the bulb to start burning before the shutter opens (like and m-sync)???? Why is using x-sync with a longer exposure any different than triggering a flash bulb with a "bulb exposure" ?

In any event, sounds like the OP has the problem solved with a dual relay arrangment where he can control both the shutter opening and the flash bulb triggering.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:12:32 pm by John Nollendorfs »
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melchiorpavone

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2014, 08:19:07 pm »

Are you talking about using a D-800, or an old film Nikon? If the x-sync shutter triggers the flash at the point that the focal plane is full open, a longer shutter speed will result in the total focal plane being open much longer--to allow for the full 40-60 milli-second burn of the bulb. Are you saying the full shutter does not stay open on a longer exposure? Or are you saying the x-sync causes the bulb to start burning before the shutter opens (like and m-sync)???? Why is using x-sync with a longer exposure any different than triggering a flash bulb with a "bulb exposure" ?

In any event, sounds like the OP has the problem solved with a dual relay arrangment where he can control both the shutter opening and the flash bulb triggering.

I am saying:

1) the X-synch will cause the shutter to fire prematurely relative to the Press 40 bulb, and

2) the peak is too short. It will not last long enough to give uniform exposure during the time the shutter is open.

This very basic stuff.

Focal-plane bulbs were designed to overcome these problems. Look at the lower right in the illustration. See how different the shape of the light-intensity curve is.

http://www.flashbulbs.com/CrPDwnlds/FlashInfoPdf2Sm.gif

More info here:

http://drjlists.home.comcast.net/~drjlists/Flash_Bulbs.htm
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 08:34:32 pm by melchiorpavone »
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Some Guy

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2014, 10:13:19 pm »

Are you talking about using a D-800, or an old film Nikon? If the x-sync shutter triggers the flash at the point that the focal plane is full open, a longer shutter speed will result in the total focal plane being open much longer--to allow for the full 40-60 milli-second burn of the bulb. Are you saying the full shutter does not stay open on a longer exposure? Or are you saying the x-sync causes the bulb to start burning before the shutter opens (like and m-sync)???? Why is using x-sync with a longer exposure any different than triggering a flash bulb with a "bulb exposure" ?

In any event, sounds like the OP has the problem solved with a dual relay arrangement where he can control both the shutter opening and the flash bulb triggering.

John, you got it!  :)
 
I am not willing to feed high current through the camera body (D800E Digital) for flash bulbs nor mess with whatever sync Nikon is now using.  Don't care if it is M, or X, Y, Z sync in the body.  I don't know what Nikon is using internally for contacts (Could be a couple of hair-like wires in the shutter unit that may or not withstand a 220uf 15 volt short circuit to the bulb with them either.), and it may be they are using some processor-controlled timing release off some opto-triac IC to the hot shoe since they also play with the rear or trailing curtain flash in the camera's menu for flash, as well as a possible pre-flash with their own or other units via the flash shoe.  Plus their CLS Commander mode stuff too.

Hence, I felt the safety need to feed that flash bulb current stuff to an external relay as well as the shutter relay, both being fed off the MC-30A two-stage switched remote cord.  The camera is totally isolated from any flash bulb electrical stuff now.  The days of X-sync may well be over inside these new things as far as to what timing controls are fed to the digital shoes now, and I'm not willing to blow one out with bulbs trying it.

So now I can now move the bulb's peak ahead or behind the shutter curtain's fully open time depending on not only the shutter lag of a given camera body, but also any slow ignition off a slow-to-ignite 0.400ms flash bulb (e.g. PF-330 or FF-33) or a quicker flash bulb like a Press #40 at 5ms by setting the relays delay independently to either the shutter or the bulb.  No damage done or applied to the hot shoe circuit or PC socket if the camera has one (D800 does have a PC socket on top of the 10 pin, but the D7000 does not and a different shutter lag too.).

Problem has been solved by moving the flash relay ahead of the shutter for the Press #40 since the shutter is slow to respond.  May not apply to the camera's internal switching, but via the remote cord it works with a common line to two relays in parallel (Shutter & a Flash relay.).  Real world flash bulb triggering is now working with digital instead of theoretical via the internal XYZ or whatever contacts.

Interesting also that I can actually test the real camera shutter lag with an electronic flash (Faster at ~1/1000 sec. from one of my studios.) and see the image appear by altering the delay in milliseconds within the Arduino Uno program that is controlling the flash bulbs or shutter relay's timing too.

I was just looking at some new FF-33 bulbs.  Interesting as it seems the bent magnesium "razor blade" looking thing is glued to the top of the glass inside the bulb.  No contact at all with the base nor the two leads up from the base at all.  Very small ignition wire between them, maybe 1/4" under the larger bent magnesium razor blade looking part.

SG
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melchiorpavone

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2014, 10:20:30 pm »

John, you got it!  :)
 
I am not willing to feed high current through the camera body (D800E Digital) for flash bulbs nor mess with whatever sync Nikon is now using.  Don't care if it is M, or X, Y, Z sync in the body.  I don't know what Nikon is using internally for contacts (Could be a couple of hair-like wires in the shutter unit that may or not withstand a 220uf 15 volt short circuit to the bulb with them either.), and it may be they are using some processor-controlled timing release off some opto-triac IC to the hot shoe since they also play with the rear or trailing curtain flash in the camera's menu for flash, as well as a possible pre-flash with their own or other units via the flash shoe.  Plus their CLS Commander mode stuff too.

Hence, I felt the safety need to feed that flash bulb current stuff to an external relay as well as the shutter relay, both being fed off the MC-30A two-stage switched remote cord.  The camera is totally isolated from any flash bulb electrical stuff now.  The days of X-sync may well be over inside these new things as far as to what timing controls are fed to the digital shoes now, and I'm not willing to blow one out with bulbs trying it.

So now I can now move the bulb's peak ahead or behind the shutter curtain's fully open time depending on not only the shutter lag of a given camera body, but also any slow ignition off a slow-to-ignite 0.400ms flash bulb (e.g. PF-330 or FF-33) or a quicker flash bulb like a Press #40 at 5ms by setting the relays delay independently to either the shutter or the bulb.  No damage done or applied to the hot shoe circuit or PC socket if the camera has one (D800 does have a PC socket on top of the 10 pin, but the D7000 does not and a different shutter lag too.).

Problem has been solved by moving the flash relay ahead of the shutter for the Press #40 since the shutter is slow to respond.  May not apply to the camera's internal switching, but via the remote cord it works with a common line to two relays in parallel (Shutter & a Flash relay.).  Real world flash bulb triggering is now working with digital instead of theoretical via the internal XYZ or whatever contacts.

Interesting also that I can actually test the real camera shutter lag with an electronic flash (Faster at ~1/1000 sec. from one of my studios.) and see the image appear by altering the delay in milliseconds within the Arduino Uno program that is controlling the flash bulbs or shutter relay's timing too.

I was just looking at some new FF-33 bulbs.  Interesting as it seems the bent magnesium "razor blade" looking thing is glued to the top of the glass inside the bulb.  No contact at all with the base nor the two leads up from the base at all.  Very small ignition wire between them, maybe 1/4" under the larger bent magnesium razor blade looking part.

SG


You have no idea what you are doing. You have no idea that the duration and intensity of the flash over that period of the flash are crucial. I have told you and told you and told you, but you won't listen. You will not get even exposure across the image no matter what you do! Why do you come here asking questions then ignore the advice given by those who have far more technical knowledge of the subject than you do?

You cannot use Press 40 flashbulbs successfully with today's cameras (focal-plane shutters), no matter what you do, except for time exposures.

I know what I am talking about and you do not. So, quit contradicting me.

You will get something like this:

http://www.digital-photography-school.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/sync-500.jpg

I have reported you to the moderator. I have had it with you. You can expect to be warned or removed.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2014, 10:38:26 pm by melchiorpavone »
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michael

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2014, 01:00:14 am »

Watching the "experts" debate here is more fun than watching political TV.

Just keep it polite please (unlike some political TV shows).

M
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Rhossydd

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2014, 03:41:36 am »

I have reported you to the moderator. I have had it with you. You can expect to be warned or removed.
I very much doubt it. People don't get banned from this forum for taking the trouble to investigate an issue, describe it articulately, be polite and report on their findings and any resolution.

From what I've read here 'Some Guy' (always nice to put your real name in your profile though) has a good grasp on the subject and has built some fairly specialised kit to work round the issues of using flashbulbs with modern DSLRs. It would be interesting to read more details of the unit he has built to vary the synchronization timings.

You Melchiorpavone, have from your first comment here failed to understand the issue and been unhelpful. Furthermore you've demonstrated that you're not aware of the current state of the market for flashbulbs, their uses, have failed to comment on what's actually been written and not bothered to make the most basic of research when you've come across a term you don't understand.
In the UK we have a saying 'when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging' you might like to consider this. Lula has some real experts in it, the smart people shut up when they find they're arguing with people that are more knowledgeable.
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Some Guy

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2014, 09:31:32 am »

Obviously the theoretical physicist here doesn't get it.  Seems stuck thinking back in the X-sync era, whereas I am not using the internal camera sync switch for flash bulbs.

Here are the two timing codes ("Sketches" in Arduino speak, or "Program" from my era.) that I've written for the Arduino Uno.  One is for the Press #40, second is for the PF-330 or Sylvania FF-33.  Feel free to load the code if you build one.

Not that hard, other than maybe making a third circuit board (plugged into the top of the Arudio Uno and one top of the Seeed Relay Shield v2 to hold the pull-up resistors needed and the 220uf capacitor underneath in one corner.  As I worked through this over time, I found more code that can be used to replace them as they are internal to the microprocessor already.  They do make a breadboard type of plug-in where one could circumvent making one.

Feel free to use either as I like the Open Source of the Arduino community.

_________________________________________________


// Flashbulb Trigger.  Shutter delay for PF-330 bulbs with Nikon D800E.  Turns on LEDs on when the two-stage release is pressed. Start of delay relay timing sketch.

const int LED1 = 4;   // The pin for the Green LED, or Relay Shield relay number 1.  Metering and Auto Foucs relay.
const int LED2 = 6;   //The pin for the Red LED, or Relay Shield relay number 2.  Bulb control relay.
const int LED3 = 5;   //The pin for the Yellow LED, Relay Shield number 3.  Shutter control relay number 3.
const int BUTTON1 = 2; // The input pin where the focus switch is connected.  From MC-30A remote SW1.
const int BUTTON2 = 3; // The input pin where the shutter switch is connected.  From MC-30A SW2.

int val1 = 0; // Value will be used to store the state of the input pin.
int val2 = 0; // As above for button 2.
int val3 = 0; // As above.

void setup()
{
  pinMode(LED1, OUTPUT); // Green Focus LED and tell Arduino LED is an output.
  pinMode(LED2, OUTPUT); // Red Shutter LED and tell Arduino LED is an output.
  pinMode(LED3, OUTPUT); // Yellow Shutter Delay LED and tell Arduino LED is an output.
  pinMode(BUTTON1, INPUT); // Button 1 is Focus switch and an input.
  pinMode(BUTTON2, INPUT); // Button 2 is Shutter switch and an input.
}

void loop()
{
  val1 = digitalRead(BUTTON1); // Read input value and store it and check whether the input is HIGH (button pressed).
  if (val1 == HIGH)
  {
    digitalWrite(LED1, HIGH); // Turn the Green LED ON.
  }
  else
  {
    digitalWrite(LED1, LOW); // Turn the Green LED OFF.
  }

  val2 = digitalRead(BUTTON2); // Read input value and store it and check whether the input is HIGH (button pressed).
  if (val2 == HIGH)
  {
    digitalWrite(LED2, HIGH); // Turn the Red LED ON.
  }
  delay (350); // Time delay of Yellow LED in milliseconds.
  if (val2 == HIGH)
  {
    digitalWrite(LED3, HIGH); // Turn the Yellow LED ON.
  }
  else {
    digitalWrite(LED2, LOW); //  Turn the Red LED OFF.
    digitalWrite(LED3, LOW); //  Turn the Yellow LED OFF.
   }
}

_________________________________________

Following is the timing program for the Press #40 bulbs:
_________________________________________

// Flashbulb Trigger.  This is for Press #40 flashbulbs with Nikon D800E. Turns on LEDs on when the two-stage release is pressed. Start of delay relay timing sketch.
// Flash needs to be delayed until the 45ms shutter lag is completed.  Focus locked in Manual mode, else shutter lag will be need to be changed to 250ms from 45ms for AF mode.

const int LED1 = 4;   // The pin for the Green LED, or Relay Shield relay number 1 (Focus and Metering relay).
const int LED2 = 6;   //The pin for the Red LED, or Relay Shield relay number 2 (Flash relay).
const int LED3 = 5;   //The pin for the Yellow LED, or Relay Shield relay number 3 (Shutter relay).
const int BUTTON1 = 2; // The input pin where the focus switch is connected, or SW1 in remote release. Goes to 10K pullup resistor using 5 volts off Arduino.
const int BUTTON2 = 3; // The input pin where the shutter switch is connected, or Sw2 in remote release.  Goes to 10K pullup resistor using 5 volts off Arduino.

int val1 = 0; // Value will be used to store the state of the input pin.
int val2 = 0; // As above for button 2.
int val3 = 0; // As above.

void setup()
{
  pinMode(LED1, OUTPUT); // Green Focus LED and tell Arduino LED is an output.
  pinMode(LED2, OUTPUT); // Red Shutter LED and tell Arduino LED is an output.
  pinMode(LED3, OUTPUT); // Yellow Flash LED and tell Arduino LED is an output.
  pinMode(BUTTON1, INPUT); // Button 1 is Focus switch and an input.
  pinMode(BUTTON2, INPUT); // Button 2 is Shutter switch and an input.
}

void loop()
{
  val1 = digitalRead(BUTTON1); // Read input value and store it and check whether the input is HIGH (Release button pressed, and first SW1 turned ON.).
  if (val1 == HIGH)
  {
    digitalWrite(LED1, HIGH); // Turn the Green LED ON. This is for Focus and Metering relay.
  }
  else
  {
    digitalWrite(LED1, LOW); // Turn the Green LED OFF.
  }
 
// Following is for Shutter relay and Flash relay.

  val2 = digitalRead(BUTTON2); // Read input value and store it and check whether the input is HIGH (Release button pressed further, and second SW2 turned ON.).
  if (val2 == HIGH)
  {
    digitalWrite(LED3, HIGH); // Turn the Yellow LED ON.  Shutter fires.
  }
  delay (45); // Time delay of Red LED (Flash relay) in milliseconds to delay firing of #40 flashbulb by 45ms for camera's shutter lag time.
  if (val2 == HIGH)
  {
    digitalWrite(LED2, HIGH); // Turn the Red LED ON. Flash fires.
  }
  else {
    digitalWrite(LED2, LOW); //  Turn the Red LED OFF.
    digitalWrite(LED3, LOW); //  Turn the Yellow LED OFF.
   }
}

_______________________________________________

I'll try and post a couple of shots taken at night with the Press #40 which I ended up with a GN=45 along with the EXIF data (I hope!).  One was using the bulb in a 5" hardware store clamp-on light into a 52" white umbrella for softness (One with little shadow behind the stand on the concrete patio as well as off the meter and ColorChecker Passport.).  Other is just the bulb with no reflector in front of the 52" umbrella that is casting a bit of a strong shadow.  The bare-bulb might be better with a GN=56 as I did pull the brightness down in post.

Both had a Lee filter #202 to color-correct the bulbs to daylight.  I'm reading about 5,200K corrected depending on the software used to read it.

I'll try and shot some of the innards of the flash control box later today if anyone is interested in the basic design and layout.  I had a schematic, but it got modified as it all went into "the box" since I could attach to the top home-made board for things like the jacks on on-off LED and power switch.

Also, there is a device called "Camera Axe" that does much of this timing and shifting around stuff for $200.  However, it does not use an internal relay and the maker advises to use an external relay for the flashbulb current else it might damage their box much like the possiblity of damaging the camera should one use the hot shoe.  The Seeed Relay Shield I use handles around 10 amps per relay so not an issue.

The owner John H. of Meggaflash told me one has to come up with the delay themselves for their PF-330 bulbs.  Most clients have that ability to do so.  I guess I got my own design now.

Whole adventure was due to the fact electronic flash "freezes moving water" and results in basically a double-exposure even at a slow 1 second shutter speed.  The long burn of the Series #33 bulbs of ~2 seconds should address that fact for landscape shooters, or with fill-flash for subjects near moving water.


SG (Who posts as "Some Guy" since I've had numerous identity theft issues with the bank like 5 credit card changes in one year, Passport, DMV, etc. by using my real name.  Not going there again.  Fwiw.).

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Rhossydd

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2014, 09:45:55 am »

Thanks for all that, interesting stuff I may make use of one day.
Quote
SG (Who posts as "Some Guy" since I've had numerous identity theft issues ......  Not going there again.  Fwiw.)
Understood, some folk seem particularly unlucky like that. But consider putting even just a first name and location into a profile, it just makes the id more friendly and credible. Plus a location often helps others help you better and may help prevent any misunderstanding by an appreciation of differences in language and custom.
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melchiorpavone

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2014, 09:56:22 am »

I very much doubt it. People don't get banned from this forum for taking the trouble to investigate an issue, describe it articulately, be polite and report on their findings and any resolution.

From what I've read here 'Some Guy' (always nice to put your real name in your profile though) has a good grasp on the subject and has built some fairly specialised kit to work round the issues of using flashbulbs with modern DSLRs. It would be interesting to read more details of the unit he has built to vary the synchronization timings.

You Melchiorpavone, have from your first comment here failed to understand the issue and been unhelpful. Furthermore you've demonstrated that you're not aware of the current state of the market for flashbulbs, their uses, have failed to comment on what's actually been written and not bothered to make the most basic of research when you've come across a term you don't understand.
In the UK we have a saying 'when you find yourself in a hole, stop digging' you might like to consider this. Lula has some real experts in it, the smart people shut up when they find they're arguing with people that are more knowledgeable.

I know exactly what I am talking about (having been involved in photography for 50 years), and he is clueless.

End of story.
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melchiorpavone

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2014, 10:02:26 am »

Obviously the theoretical physicist here doesn't get it.  Seems stuck thinking back in the X-sync era, whereas I am not using the internal camera sync switch for flash bulbs.


You asked for help, and it was given.

Press 40 flashbulbs are from before that era ("X" synch), or did that perhaps escape your attention?

They were called "Press" because they were used like this, with leaf-shutter cameras Speed Graphics and similar  leaf-shutter press cameras:
http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/anniversary-graphic.jpg

There were even "press" films, such as DuPont Arrow Pan and Kodak Super-Panchro Press film, which were designed to provide good images under the conditions they were expected to be used, usually with flash:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA0NVgxMDc5/z/raQAAOxyfVtSLr-I/$(KGrHqJ,!oQFIrkVkH9GBSLr-IDtPw~~60_35.JPG

The Press 40 flashbulbs do not burn properly for use with focal-plane shutters (other than for time exposures), regardless of how you synchronize them.

End of discussion.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 12:08:44 pm by melchiorpavone »
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Some Guy

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2014, 05:23:51 pm »

I'll show some of the refinement photos for those going this route.

Photo of 5" clamp reflector and upright modified drop light.  I just used emroidery loops for the Le #201 filter sheets.  Normal AC power cord replaced with 25' 1/4" mono phono-plug type cables.  Notice the bulb in the drop-light is the Series #33 bulb with the 2 second burn time.

Photos of "The Box."
Front views shows military type flip-lever DPST power switch (Blue).  Red power LED in middle.  Cord out near bottom is the Nikon 10-pin cable I took out of the MC-30A remote release.  Left the molded strain-relief on it and just notched the aluminum plate of the box much like the hole in the handle of the MC-30A.

The longer cord now coming out of the MC-30A is a replacement molded 3-conductor with 90 degree mini plug that I got out of All Electronics in Los Angeles.  It fits the remote perfectly with a bit of trim on the strain relief from round to square.  Goes into a standard 3 conductor mini jack that goes to my homemade upper PC board and feeds the two 10K Pul-Up reistors that feed the 5 volt trigger (or High) signal to the Arduino Uno board through the Relay board pins and jacks.

Back shows the USB Type B connector that allows me to reprogram the Uno's timing for the relays depending on the bulb in use, shutter lag of whatever camera, etc. without taking the cover off.  I can plug in a laptop and dump another timing program into it in maybe 15 seconds via the Arduino freeware.  1/4" jack under it goes to either flashbulb holder I am using above.  The small on on the right if the charge jack for the 14.8 volt rechargable battery (Also from All Electronics).

There is also a 9 volt TO-22 regulator heat-sinked to the middle of the rear aluminum plate to take some of the 15 volt battery down to 9 volts that feeds into the power port for the Arduino Uno.  It also supplies the relay boards power via the Uno board.  The full15 volts goes to the flash.  I used about 1.5K resistor into the 220uf capacitor as part of the flash trigger circuit.  Search for the Honeywell Tilt-a-Might scehamtic online for genral idea.

Out of focus side-shot of "The Box" shows the stacked boards.  You can see the 220uf flash trigger capactor upside down on the upper board in the dark region near the two red wires on the right by the power swtich.

I also included what looks like a flipped circuit board (Lettering is reversed.).  If you print it via a Laserjet, the otner will make a sort of release wax that is then ironed onto the copper PC board, removed and the traces remain, and then etch it normally.  All Electronics sells 4 sheets of that transfer blue film for about $11.  I used their "Turn the copper to tin" solution later once it was etched.  The etchant powder and tin suff is about $9 each.  Holes I generally start with a #68 drill bit and enlarge if needed.

Rememeber, the board is flipped and will show up correctly once iron onto the PC board.  The components, with the exception of the capacitor, are all soldered flush on top of the board like surface-mount stuff since the relays are under it and it sits flat ontop of them.

I used long snappable header pins that look like those on the bottom of the relay board.  Three are on the upper 3 squares looking at the drawing and go into the matching sockets of the relay board (I think they are holes 3, 4, and 5.).  There is another long 2 pin connector on the oppsotite side for the two side-by-side pull up resistors, they goes into the +5 volts and GND jacks for the relay board and down into the same on the Uno.

You can see the relays LED lights and what relays the Metering & AF goes to, the shutter relay, and the bulb relay.  All these are set up the same as what would be seen coming out of the MC-30A remote, just another relay or switch for the bulb is added.

Shot of three boards pulled apart from the stacking.  Nothing new, other than two old Press #40 lamps used to take the test photos posted earlier.  One in the photo is my trial board and not the final now inside the box.  The jack is on it so I can plug in my modified Nikon MC-30A remote that now has a 3-conductor mini stereo plug on it.

I did put a crossbrace for some nylon cord in the top cover to keep it from stressing the plastic box (Box also from All Electronics, $10).  I hands on the hook under the tripod center column and reached to the 10-pin jack in the camera.

SG
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Some Guy

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2014, 05:26:06 pm »

Continuation of "The Box" internal photos since the limit of 4 images per post:

SG
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melchiorpavone

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2014, 05:36:14 pm »

I'll show some of the refinement photos for those going this route.

Nobody else will, because we know better.
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Some Guy

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2014, 06:39:51 am »

Had a successful shoot with flashbulbs yesterday on a D800E, other than forgetting to plug the box into the camera once, yet the bulb fired just out of sync and dark.  Need to put a bit of "Don't get the camera AF voltage, then don't fire the silly thing!" code maybe.  Shot a singer/actress/model out of Hollywood in some waterfalls.  I had the make-up woman hold the Lee "Little Stopper" 6-stop ND filter in front of the hood too.  Color balance wasn't bad.

Exp. 1 second at f/2.8 (ISO 100) with PF-330 bulb in a reflector.  You can see a bit of the harsh shadow under her arm.  Had to use a Lee #201 filter over the 10" bowl for color correction.   About 10 feet in distance with 50mm lens.  Biggest issue is them holding still and not shivering for 1 second.


SG
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 08:29:07 am by Some Guy »
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capital

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2014, 12:36:00 am »

Interesting thread. If I may ask, what did the bulb provide that an electronic strobe would not for that photograph? Luminosity or duration? Or both?
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Some Guy

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2014, 11:37:35 am »

Interesting thread. If I may ask, what did the bulb provide that an electronic strobe would not for that photograph? Luminosity or duration? Or both?

Thanks.

This started with my not thinking that electronic flash with its short duration was leading to lighting artifacts with waterfalls in this thread:  http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=90011.0

It's really a double-exposure mess gone bad with waterfalls as shown in the above links photos, i.e. a slow shutter, and electronic flash.  Only way to avoid retouching 1000's of "strobe fireflies" was to slow the flash duration down using old slow-burn or long duration flashbulbs.

I tried to do a flash sequencer too, but even if the strobe fired at 1/300 duration it would take 300 of them for 1 second (1/300 x 300 strobes = 1 second) so not practical. Speed-lights were far shorter and worse than the studio units, aside from their weak power for a waterfall.

This works, just it isn't cheap to fire off a $75 flashbulb without knowing the GN, ND filter (A Lee "Little Stopper" this time out.) color variations, color correction filter, etc.  Plus, one needs to get the bulb up to max. brightness prior to firing the shutter, hence the box above and timing code that operates based on the signal from the camera's focus/metering, and then it timing the second stage of the release button for the shutter's lag time from the release trigger signal.

The outfit that sells the bulbs in Ireland said one would have to devise their own firing method for whatever camera was used as they sold no firing controller.  There is the "Camera Axe" too, just you need a secondary relay and battery to get the current out to the bulb to fire it, according to its maker.  I basically put it all in one using the same Arduino microprocessor.

SG
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capital

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Re: Help with flashbulbs!
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2014, 01:32:38 pm »

Thank you for the reference back to the original image. Quite an inspiring adventure.

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