Aperture RIP

[Robert Roaldi]

Looks like I may be SOL regardless. Did some more digging and Apple has not extended raw support for several cameras in Lion even though they were updated for Mountain Lion. For instance, the Oly E-M1 raw support was provided for Mountain Lion but not Lion, so there is probably no hope for E-M10 RAW support for me. The last Olympus update in Lion was for the PL5. So, future Aperture development or not, I have to change something. I understand that companies may not want to support platforms forever, but my 2006 white iMac works just fine for what I need, so I am reluctant to upgrade hardware just to get RAW support for my camera, as I have no other reason to upgrade. I also know in my bones that supporting those RAW formats in Lion would be no big deal for them, but that's life.

Would it make sense for me, do you think, to change my workflow and convert my E-M10 RAWs to DNG, using some converter, and work with the DNG in Aperture 3.4.5?  Is anyone using DNG with that version of Aperture?  Any surprises I need to be aware of?

[Robert Roaldi]

“Future versions of Lightroom will be made available via traditional perpetual licenses indefinitely.”  Tom Hogarty, LR product manager.

A belated thanks for this, I wasn't aware.

[craig forrest]

Thom Hogan has an interesting article on the subject of Aperture's demise:

http://www.dslrbodies.com/accessories/software-for-nikon-dslrs/software-news/another-one-bites-the-dust.html

The screen shot provided in The Loop article looks much more like Aperture than iPhoto.



What if the transition to the new Photos app provided a way for Apple to provide a free replacement for iPhone/Facebook users with the new IOS and OS-X systems while allowing third party creation of plug-ins to expand the program for more advanced photographers? Apple could allow third party developers to sell the plug-in enhancements to the new Photos program through the App Store and thus make a commission on them.

Any photographer wanting to enhance the new Photos app could pick and choose the plug-ins they felt they needed for their own custom software. Lens profiles for specific lenses, special filters, advanced sharpening tools, special effects like onOne software's Lightroom presets? Would this be possible? Feasible?

[john beardsworth]

Surprisingly bitter-sounding for Thom!

[john beardsworth]

Any photographer wanting to enhance the new Photos app could pick and choose the plug-ins they felt they needed for their own custom software. Lens profiles for specific lenses, special filters, advanced sharpening tools, special effects like onOne software's Lightroom presets? Would this be possible? Feasible?

Probably. And back to the bad old days of one app for finding your pictures, another for keywording, another for sharpening, a different UI for printing, another for slideshow...? Slow-learning cousin Nigel calls you to find out how to polish up his photos, and you can't help by pointing to this Aperture or Lightroom feature or doing it for him because he's got the NoiseCide app and you use another, NoiseKiller Pro or whatever. Feasible? Probably.

[ButchM]

Probably. And back to the bad old days of one app for finding your pictures, another for keywording, another for sharpening, a different UI for printing, another for slideshow...? Slow-learning cousin Nigel calls you to find out how to polish up his photos, and you can't help by pointing to this Aperture or Lightroom feature or doing it for him because he's got the NoiseCide app and you use another, NoiseKiller Pro or whatever. Feasible? Probably.

Maybe it wouldn't have to be that way, John. It appears Apple is intending on using OS level resources for finding, key wording, rating and otherwise cataloging images. So that portion of the solution would not have to be convoluted or confusing.

It's possible (and I have no way of knowing) ... third party plugins could simplified further to be used in true extensibility. No need to exit one app to open another and roundtrip back to app 1.

Think of say Nik Define as just another subset of sliders in the Adjustment pane right in the Photos App ... working directly with the RAW image as if it were being done with an Adjustment Brick in Aperture. Granted ... everyone wouldn't end ups with identical "applications" ... but I always thought choice was good.

I would think such a method could be a boon for developers .... Apple creates the backbone and overall UI as well as does all the leg work on the initial RAW conversion ... third party developers, concentrate create the code and use Apple's API hooks for sliders, buttons, etc. ... Then the plugins/extensions are sold in the App Store. Everyone wins ... the end user, the third party developer and Apple ...

[RobSaecker]

Surprisingly bitter-sounding for Thom!

We must not be reading the same article, I don’t detect any bitterness at all.

but my 2006 white iMac works just fine for what I need, so I am reluctant to upgrade hardware just to get RAW support for my camera, as I have no other reason to upgrade.

I understand not wanting to fix what ain’t broken, but I think you’d be more than pleasantly surprised at how much faster the new Macs are. If you’re in reasonable distance to an Apple Store, you should take a card with a few images in and run them through your workflow on one of their machines, just to see the difference. You can wipe the images off afterwards.

I suppose one could put a positive spin on it and say that they're actually trying to prevent losing customers.  But if so, it's a pretty inept way to go about it. Then again, Apple has gone for so long without communicating in any other way than through major PR events, that it is quite possible they have nobody with any idea of how to organise a grass roots type of campaign.

A “grass roots campaign” for what? You know the term “astroturf”, right? How does any Fortune 500 firm run a “grass roots campaign” that isn’t immediately labeled astroturfing?

So back to my question, why make any statement and why make it now?

I’m going to make a wild guess: they got so many questions at and after WWDC about the future of Aperture that they finally decided it was time to officially pull the plug.

[ButchM]

Surprisingly bitter-sounding for Thom!

Only for his points concerning Adobe 

[Robert Roaldi]

I understand not wanting to fix what ain’t broken, but I think you’d be more than pleasantly surprised at how much faster the new Macs are. If you’re in reasonable distance to an Apple Store, you should take a card with a few images in and run them through your workflow on one of their machines, just to see the difference. You can wipe the images off afterwards.

Thanks, I might just try that out of curiosity, although I don't find my current machine slow, that is, not slow enough to make me consider upgrading just because of that. With a new iMac (27 inch, ca. $2000, or even the 21.5 inch at $1500), I could get Aperture 3.5 and probably be able to use it for a while, if the new Photos is not up to snuff. I'd have to hold at Mavericks though and have to put up with de-contented Pages and Numbers, which I use quite a bit.

If the new Photos never matches the Aperture "pro" functionality however, because Apple is not interested in that, then eventually I'd be where I am now, with a version of OS and Aperture that do not support some future RAW that I might be using. Except I'd be $2000 poorer and have a perfectly good white iMac collecting dust, a waste that would really grate. I'm tending to move to Lightroom or AfterShotPro (ex-Bibble) right now, get it over with. Those applications may also do something in the future I don't like but that's always true.

I don't expect Apple to have come looking for me to let me know that Lion was not going to support certain RAW formats in the future, but it seems to me that a policy statement somewhere on their site to let Lion+Aperture users know that they were ceasing RAW support after the Oly PL5 would have been nice, so that at least I would be able to plan. I looked today at the list of supported cameras for Lion and Mountain Lion and was able to deduce that they stopped updating RAW support in Lion, or it certainly looks that way. But there's not a word posted there that SAYS that's what they are doing. Why not? What kind of a way is that to treat your customers?

[john beardsworth]

Only for his points concerning Adobe 

Sure, and it makes it a rather unbalanced article by his standards - he's just swallowed the Apple line. When any corporation puts out news via PR channels, you can bet the truth is awkward or unpleasant, can't you?

[ButchM]

Sure, and it makes it a rather unbalanced article by his standards - he's just swallowed the Apple line. When any corporation puts out news via PR channels, you can bet the truth is awkward or unpleasant, can't you?

John, I don't think Thom can ever be credited for accepting what any corporation puts forth without question. He's shown equal disdain and disappointment across the board as needed. It seems in this instance ... he's willing to reserve judgment on Apple until after he can evaluate the whole offering.

And yes ... this whole reveal by Apple has been considerably awkward and very unpleasant. For all concerned.

[john beardsworth]

And I wouldn't usually say that of him, but it's hook, line and sinker here. Reserving judgement or just giving Apple an easy ride?

[jjj]

Looks like I may be SOL regardless. Did some more digging and Apple has not extended raw support for several cameras in Lion even though they were updated for Mountain Lion. For instance, the Oly E-M1 raw support was provided for Mountain Lion but not Lion, so there is probably no hope for E-M10 RAW support for me. The last Olympus update in Lion was for the PL5. So, future Aperture development or not, I have to change something. I understand that companies may not want to support platforms forever, but my 2006 white iMac works just fine for what I need, so I am reluctant to upgrade hardware just to get RAW support for my camera, as I have no other reason to upgrade. I also know in my bones that supporting those RAW formats in Lion would be no big deal for them, but that's life.

Apple have no interest in maintaining backwards compatibility as they wouldn't be able to sell as many computers if they did that.   The new free OSes are simply sneaky ways of making you buy a new machine, because it won't necessarily work on your currently perfectly fine computer.

[ButchM]

Apple have no interest in maintaining backwards compatibility as they wouldn't be able to sell as many computers if they did that.   The new free OSes are simply sneaky ways of making you buy a new machine, because it won't necessarily work on your currently perfectly fine computer.

Poppycock ... Apple is in no way perfect. They have their faults. But your analogy is flawed.

I currently have a 2007 Macbook Pro that is running Mavericks ... according to current info it is also listed as capable of running Yosemite. That's pretty darned good "backwards compatibility" ... conversely, ACR and Lightroom RAW file support won't even reach back a single version. By comparison, in this respect, Apple isn't quite the most restricting of developers.

[Robert Roaldi]

I currently have a 2007 Macbook Pro that is running Mavericks ... according to current info it is also listed as capable of running Yosemite. That's pretty darned good "backwards compatibility" ... conversely, ACR and Lightroom RAW file support won't even reach back a single version. By comparison, in this respect, Apple isn't quite the most restricting of developers.

That's correct, I was just unlucky enough to buy the 2006 white iMac, which seems to have a hardware restriction on upgrades past Lion. Bad luck for me. I don't expect backwards compatibilty forever, can't be done, although separating out camera RAW support from the OS would have been my design choice. But as I said above, a policy statement on their Lion raw compatibility page STATING that they were stopping support after a certain date/version/camera would have been a better way to treat their customers. I'm sure they have their reasons. But so do I, and I bought Lightroom 5 last night after playing with it and AfterShotPro (discount deals at the moment, btw). Spending $80 or so on some software made a lot more sense than replacing hardware that still works fine.

[BobShaw]

That's correct, I was just unlucky enough to buy the 2006 white iMac, .....

Mate, your computer is 8 years old! If you bought a PC in 2006 you would probably be on your third. Apple hardware is great but you would be blown away by how fast the new machines are. The latest OS (which is free) runs on machines made in 2007 which is by computer standards unheard of. You probably should think about an upgrade and give it to someone.

[jjj]

Mate, your computer is 8 years old! If you bought a PC in 2006 you would probably be on your third. Apple hardware is great but you would be blown away by how fast the new machines are. The latest OS (which is free) runs on machines made in 2007 which is by computer standards unheard of. You probably should think about an upgrade and give it to someone.

My last PC laptop lasted longer than 8 years and never needed to go to the store for repairs unlike my MacPro [memory issues/graphics issues and crap and eventually binned DVD player], my MBP which was damaged by the recalled magsafe power supply, my iPad [faulty lightning connector] and my iPhone [utterly, utterly shit battery].  Windows backwards compatibility tends to be better as they actively try not to break compatibility.

[Robert Roaldi]

Mate, your computer is 8 years old! If you bought a PC in 2006 you would probably be on your third. Apple hardware is great but you would be blown away by how fast the new machines are. The latest OS (which is free) runs on machines made in 2007 which is by computer standards unheard of. You probably should think about an upgrade and give it to someone.

  Guilty as charged. I'm a cheapskate. If I had waited a few short months and bought my iMac at the same time as my wife bought hers, in early 2007, I wouldn't be having to make these decisions now. C'est la vie. I just hope that this is the worst thing that happens to me in my life. (I'm kind of liking Lightroom, btw.)

[ButchM]

My last PC laptop lasted longer than 8 years and never needed to go to the store for repairs unlike my MacPro [memory issues/graphics issues and crap and eventually binned DVD player], my MBP which was damaged by the recalled magsafe power supply, my iPad [faulty lightning connector] and my iPhone [utterly, utterly shit battery].  Windows backwards compatibility tends to be better as they actively try not to break compatibility.

My goodness, if you have a PC laptop that lasted eight years and four consecutive failures of Apple products ... that run OS systems with built-in obsolescence ... I'd go running back to Windows with glee. With that kind of luck ...it may be in your best interest not to venture forth into Atlantic City or Las Vegas.

I've owned and used over 30 different Apple computers since 1993 (I owned and operated a custom color film lab for nearly 20 years) ... I used many more Apple computers in the employ of others ... I currently own three iPads, 2 iPod Touch units and have owned the iPhone 3g, 4s and 5s ... only one desktop has ever failed me ... and only one of the six Apple laptops I have ever owned had a component failure ... not one iOS unit has ever failed.

So, it would seem our experiences are unique and neither is the average or expected experience. The truth, as always is somewhere in the middle of the extremes. That middle is where Apple enjoys one of the highest customer satisfaction records for any company on the planet. They also have shown consistent, steady growth in desktop and laptop sales the past several years while the rest of the industry has experienced significant reductions or stagnant sales.

[jjj]

My goodness, if you have a PC laptop that lasted eight years and four consecutive failures of Apple products

That is not what I said. I wish people wouldn't misconstrue posts.

Apple have good customer satisfaction for two reasons.
They have shops that have truly excellent customers service, which is just as well with the steady stream of people bringing faulty goods back.
The other reason is that they sell very expensive products. Now the interesting thing about humans is that the more expensive a product is the less likely people are to admit there is an issue with their purchase and I'd guess you would be one of them. This is why Macolytes defending Apple products are so numerous compared to PC users who don't mind admitting their drawbacks of their usually much cheaper purchases and so there will be a systematic under reporting of Apple issues. Yet in casual conversations with many colleagues over the years who also use Macs I'd be hard pushed to think of one who hasn't let slip about problems they've had with their products and visits to the Apple store. As for me, the more expensive a product the more critical I am of it's failings - which is the more sensible response, rather than the usual refuse to admit that maybe one's purchase was not a good one.
Chris Sanderson's recent thread re his tales of woe to do with his new MacPro purchase is also worth reading and you seem to be ignoring the fact that Apple do recalls of items and are constantly doing bug fixes to sort out issues with their software. My policy with Apple is never ever use a v1 of anything, I wait until bug fix 3 or 4 with OSes [something that was also suggested to me by an Apple Genius whose job was to sort out Mac problems] just like with Windows I would wait until SP1 before upgrading to a new OS. And I wait till at least the 3rd revision of hardware as earlier version are usually crippled too much for me to consider.

Besides it gets really tiresome with people going on about how wonderful their very expensive computer is and how crappy all PCs are, despite the fact that you can get a pretty good PC for a fraction of the price of the cheapest Mac. And the cheapest Macs have always been a really poor purchase as normally they are lacking basics you'd find on a PC that costs 30% of the Mac. Not having CD/DVD writers when they were essential would be a typical feature cut from the 'affordable' Mac. Even above that you usually need to spec a higher machine than the base price, my MP came with 2Gb of memory when comparably priced PCs would have had 8-16GB+ of RAM. Plus these days you cannot upgrade from a cheaper source after purchase because you need to upgrade item at time of purchase. Which is makes say a £1700 laptop a £2500 purchase.